Steering a plane

[TonyL]

Uh, "steering wheel"? Am I missing something

Saw this on another serious thread so needed to lift it elsewhere.
Apparently planes don't have a steering wheel!!
Having just flown from the UK and now they tell me!
Why am I always the last to know

 

[TonyL]

Next you'll be telling me that turbulence isn't caused by the bad road surface

 

[NY_Dutch]

They call it a "yoke", but it sure looks like a steering wheel to me.

Consolidated PBY-5A Catalina

 

[Oldgator73]

I was in the Air Force for 24 years and we were told that the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard planes all had steering wheels and windows that rolled up and down. My wife did hitch a ride on Navy plane from Misawa, Japan to Atsugi, Japan. She said they had stay below cloud cover so the pilot could see the highway.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Maybe airplanes could use what Tesla's have:

 

[Larry N.]

Maybe airplanes could use what Tesla's have:

View attachment 177643

Some yokes are similar to that, Mark, though my personal preference is for a joystick- more intuitive and a bit easier control, but they all work, though none of them "steer" in the automotive sense. Images from Wikipedia:

From elsewhere:

 

[TonyL]

Did we use a jet bridge to cross the Atlantic?
(Must stop now, hope this jetlag wears off soon)

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I've (briefly) flown friends' small planes a handful of times. The analogy I use is it's riding a 3D bicycle. I have a buddy that was a 747 pilot, flew all over the world with a major airline. I can't get my mind wrapped around managing that size and weight of anything that flies much less not spill the drinks. My cousin is an F18 pilot. Hard to grasp that much power and maneuverability. My dad was a bomber pilot in WWII. Sitting in a plane like it today makes you understand the guts required just to fly the thing.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Sunnyfalls]

Boeing still uses control columns AKA yokes. Airbus uses joy sticks. The C17 uses joy sticks. The problem with becoming a pilot is that most everything you subsequently do on the ground pales in terms of excitement and significance. E.G., where motorcycling was once fun, it subsequently becomes boring. Same for "fast" cars.

 

[Bzerull]

Uh, "steering wheel"? Am I missing something

Saw this on another serious thread so needed to lift it elsewhere.
Apparently planes don't have a steering wheel!!
Having just flown from the UK and now they tell me!
Why am I always the last to know

I am a pilot. Steering with yoke or a stick. With either one, pull back to go up, push forward to go down. Move left to turn left, move right to turn right for ailerons, all coordinated with the foot pedals that control the rudder.

 

[Chef Duane]

I was in the Air Force for 24 years and we were told that the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard planes all had steering wheels and windows that rolled up and down. My wife did hitch a ride on Navy plane from Misawa, Japan to Atsugi, Japan. She said they had stay below cloud cover so the pilot could see the highway.

Get your facts straight. Only the helo's in the Coast Guard had roll up & down windows 'cause they had to land on the water. The fixed wing aircraft did have blackout night shades tho, so on those long flights to the Arctic they could get some shuteye.

And every plane I've flown either had a stick or a yoke. Some commercial carriers have a side stick. ATP's don't call it a joystick. At least not the ones I know.

 

[Sunnyfalls]

And every plane I've flown either had a stick or a yoke. Some commercial carriers have a side stick. ATP's don't call it a joystick. At least not the ones I know.

Aircraft terminology varies much...and often by the experience/perspective of the people associated with aircraft. There are lots of aircraft pilots, there are lots of aircraft mechanics, there are some aircraft engineers and there are a few aircraft engineers/pilots.

Boeing liked to call the Airbus side sticks "joy sticks" to diss them given that Boeing never evolved past control columns (so called by airplane flight control engineers) and yokes (so called by pilots). Control columns made sense back when aircraft used steel cables/pulleys (AKA control quadrants) between the control column and the pitch and roll control systems/surfaces (elevator, stabilizer and ailerons). Boeing believed retaining flight deck commonality between their models was all important for Sales. And this perspective eventually caused them big problems with the 737MAX.

Boeing never evolved to side sticks even after evolving to fly-by-wire control systems (starting with 777). The 737MAX still uses steel cables/pulleys (AKA control quadrants) between the control column and the pitch and roll control systems/surfaces (elevator, stabilizer and ailerons)..and still uses control cables/pulleys (AKA control quadrants) between the pedals and yaw system/surface (rudder). Even Boeing's newest 787 airplane has control columns even though it is also a fly-by-wire control system aircraft. Side sticks have now largely been proven to be a superior approach.

And there are flight decks...and there are cockpits...which violates some peoples political correctness too.

 

[Chef Duane]

Aircraft terminology varies much...and often by the experience/perspective of the people associated with aircraft. There are lots of aircraft pilots, there are lots of aircraft mechanics, there are some aircraft engineers and there are a few aircraft engineers/pilots.

Boeing liked to call the Airbus side sticks "joy sticks" to diss them given that Boeing never evolved past control columns (so called by airplane flight control engineers) and yokes (so called by pilots). Control columns made sense back when aircraft used steel cables/pulleys (AKA control quadrants) between the control column and the pitch and roll control systems/surfaces (elevator, stabilizer and ailerons). Boeing believed retaining flight deck commonality between their models was all important for Sales. And this perspective eventually caused them big problems with the 737MAX.

Boeing never evolved to side sticks even after evolving to fly-by-wire control systems (starting with 777). The 737MAX still uses steel cables/pulleys (AKA control quadrants) between the control column and the pitch and roll control systems/surfaces (elevator, stabilizer and ailerons)..and still uses control cables/pulleys (AKA control quadrants) between the pedals and yaw system/surface (rudder). Even Boeing's newest 787 airplane has control columns even though it is also a fly-by-wire control system aircraft. Side sticks have now largely been proven to be a superior approach.

And there are flight decks...and there are cockpits...which violates some peoples political correctness too.

Agree with most everything you said. My brother - retired Continental left seat - always called it the 'yoke' or 'stick' as do I (172 driver) and used 'flight deck' and 'cockpit' interchangeably. My dad - P51 in WWII always called it a 'stick' even though he'd fly with me and a yoke. I think some ATP's are hesitant to call it a 'joystick' only because it has the connotation of a video game. And I did not know the 737Max was still cable control. I assumed it would be FbW.

 

[Sunnyfalls]

Agree with most everything you said. My brother - retired Continental left seat - always called it the 'yoke' or 'stick' as do I (172 driver) and used 'flight deck' and 'cockpit' interchangeably. My dad - P51 in WWII always called it a 'stick' even though he'd fly with me and a yoke. I think some ATP's are hesitant to call it a 'joystick' only because it has the connotation of a video game. And I did not know the 737Max was still cable control. I assumed it would be FbW.

My comments pertain more to the transport category aircraft.

The smaller fighter type aircraft had and still have "sticks". I would venture that these sticks will eventually be replaced by side stick(s). Side sticks perform better when dealing with high G maneuvers as you just have to deal with the increased weight of your fingers and not your entire arm. But I would also venture that fully autonomous aircraft will eventually replace piloted aircraft too. Fully autonomous aircraft can accomplish high G maneuvers that pilots can not.

Boeing called the Airbus side sticks "joy sticks" for exactly that connotation...to equate them with video games...and try to convince potential buyers that they were not a robust design approach.

I got to fly a two seat restored P51 years ago. Besides the noise, what I most remember (if I remember correctly) was the need to apply nearly full left rudder during takeoff to overcome the huge prop torque that would roll the plane over if you didn't.

Some of us believed that a new FbW 737 replacement having side sticks was what should have been. But you know the rest of that story...

 

[Oldgator73]

And every plane I've flown either had a stick or a yoke

You were a pilot?

I would venture that these sticks will eventually be replaced by side stick(s).

Eventually all aircraft will be unmanned.

 

[Larry N.]

I am a pilot. Steering with yoke or a stick. With either one, pull back to go up, push forward to go down. Move left to turn left, move right to turn right for ailerons, all coordinated with the foot pedals that control the rudder.

Rather over simplified, though there's some truth in that. For instance if you pull back to go up, it works for a while, quite a long while if you don't pull back very much or add enough power for climb. Push to go down works, often (always, initially), but depending on a lot of factors can soon just cause a bit of speedup and level you off, or at least reduce your descent a lot.

I'll stop there, though there's a lot more, including the transitional behavior of control pressure changes on the aircraft vs. steady state. In any case, I still stand by this:

though none of them "steer" in the automotive sense

------------

Get your facts straight. Only the helo's in the Coast Guard had roll up & down windows 'cause they had to land on the water. The fixed wing aircraft did have blackout night shades tho, so on those long flights to the Arctic they could get some shuteye.

There have been quite a number of light aircraft, especially in the '30s and '40s, that had rollup windows, even using an automotive mechanism to do so.

If you must make such statements, at least please don't make it sound like ALL aircraft are that way. It may well be true "in the Coast Guard," though -- your statement was just ambiguous enough that I'm not sure which way you meant that.

The smaller fighter type aircraft had and still have "sticks".

Yes, and some do, indeed, have sidesticks today. But there are still quite a few light aircraft that use sticks but not many that have gone to "fly-by-wire" to be able to use sidesticks.

Eventually all aircraft will be unmanned.

That would surprise me a great deal. While it may eventually be true of most or all COMMERCIAL aircraft, too many folks enjoy doing the actual flying to give up control of all aircraft, not to mention the considerable extra expense and uselessness for a light aircraft flown for sport or fun. A joystick got its name for a reason.

Too often I think many people forget that aviation goes WA-A_A_AAY beyond just airlines and military. There's much more to it.

 

[Chef Duane]

I got to fly a two seat restored P51 years ago. Besides the noise, what I most remember (if I remember correctly) was the need to apply nearly full left rudder during takeoff to overcome the huge prop torque that would roll the plane over if you didn't.

Yes, and WWII pilots had to deflect left rudder/right rudder when taxiing to see where they were going as the nose obstructed forward view.

 

[Chef Duane]

There have been quite a number of light aircraft, especially in the '30s and '40s, that had rollup windows, even using an automotive mechanism to do so.

If you must make such statements, at least please don't make it sound like ALL aircraft are that way. It may well be true "in the Coast Guard," though -- your statement was just ambiguous enough that I'm not sure which way you meant that.

It was said in jest. Don't take it too seriously.

 

[Chef Duane]

You were a pilot?

Yes.

 

[Oldgator73]

Yes.

In the Coast Guard?