Stupid Black Water Tank Question!

[gobblertales]

We have a KZ Classic Sportsmen 190.  This does not have any black tank sensors. So, the only thing we can do is (with the water off) peer down inside with a flashlight to see depth and also if empty after draining.  I am at my wits end on emptying the tank.  If you look inside their are furrows (or a trench like depression) in the bottom which seems to allow "particles" and sometimes larger portions of human waste, even after draining.  I have used a jet spray as well as gallons of water to try and rinse it clean. But, it just doesn't seem to want to drain totally and these bits stay in this trench. We are going to check our leveling, just in case we are leaning a bit to the wrong side which "might" affect draining. But, aside from that we are frustrated as to why we cannot seem to get this tank totally, 100% emptied.  Is there  a reason for these furrows (indentations) at the bottom of the blank tank which seem to be hindering cleaning?  Am I doing something else wrong?  Hate to have an RV and just want to stop in to restaurants and such to go to the bathroom, but that is what it is coming to.  Kinda defeats the purpose of having an RV lol.  Pondering getting a little shop vac to get the remaining things out but jeez... who wants to do that.  Thanks for any hints

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I think perhaps you are worrying too much. After all, you aren't eating off the floor of the black tank (are you?).  ???  Just let the tank fill with waste, using plenty of water so that solids and paper can dissolve. When its gets 3/4 full or more, open the drain valve and let it whoosh out.  Use a tank rinse tool if you have one, but don't expect to get it pristine - it ain't gonna happen.  There is always going to be some degree of residue in the tank, clinging to the walls as well as the floor and pipes. If you don't have a tank rinse tool, or its not convenient to use one every time, don't worry.

I would guess the furrows in the bottom of the tank are to add rigidity to the tank. Basically you have a corrugated floor and that makes for a stiffer tank.

 

[gobblertales]

Thanks so much.  My husband and I are fairly new to all this.  We are using the RV for hunting and camping.  right now the RV is in Georgia
and we go back and forth to it.  It is there temporarily in a camp and we go back and forth by car.  We were concerned about leaving the
blackwater tank fill to 2/3  because we may come home for a week and then go back up. That means the blackwater tank is sitting for that
period of time waiting for us to come back.  So, if we stay for 4 days or 6 days we have been draining the blackwater tank, not want to leave it sit until we come back.  The other reason for concern was when I "flush" the toilet I was still getting an odor.  Even though we have cleaned it each time, put in the appropriate chemicals etc.  I think a main problem though, is since it does not have sensors I have to peer with a flashlight down the toilet to
see if cleaned, etc.  Perhaps "seeing" down there made me more paranoid about things. lol  We'll lighten up though, perhaps not "peering into the abyss so so speak, as often. 

 

[scottydl]

That means the blackwater tank is sitting for that
period of time waiting for us to come back.

That is not always a bad thing, although I realize our brains often think otherwise.  As long as you have enough water in the black tank, additional time will allow the good bacteria to liquify the contents even further.  Letting it sit a week or so is not a big deal, especially if it's not full.  Dumping too early prior to bacterial breakdown can leave solids behind, which is kinda what you've described.  Besides as Gary said, you don't always get the inside of the tank completely spotless.  There's really no reason to do that... I mean, it's just going to fill up again. 

P.S.  If your system is working/venting properly and you are using enough water (notice a trend there?), no additional chemical additives are necessary in the black tank.

 

[Gottasmilealot]

Last year I switched to a travel trailer that has a wide shallow tank, so I share the same dilemma.  Keeping the sensors working is a challenge. The former owner installed a tank washing system that works well.  When you dump, you connect a garden hose, and it sprays the interior of the tanks while you dump.  I never had this, or needed it, with my small motor home.  The other thing you can do is drive the wheel opposite of the dump side up onto a block when dumping so there's more slope towards the discharge side of the tank.

 

[Hfx_Cdn]

    As Gary and Scott said, the secret to RV holding tanks is the use of water to allow the good bacteria to dissolve any solids.  Also, as Scott said, do not use any of those chemicals so prevalent at RV/Department stores to eliminate odors, they only make it worse.  However, many of us occasionally add a bacterial boost, used for septic systems, such as Ridex, or other similar brand name.  That will help on those occasions when you leave the RV for a couple of weeks with the black tank partially full.

Ed

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Alot of people fill the tank up slightly with fresh water and dump in few bags of ice and take the RV for a drive/drag around town to slosh the ice around scrubbing the tank clean. Then fill up the rest of the way and dump as usual. Since I've got a sewer dump on property I normally will bring the RV home and dump the final at home. But I always load the tank up with fresh water leave it sit for a few hours and then dump.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The "ice cube trick" is primarily for cleaning internal tank sensors, but gobblertales says they don't even have a tank gauge.

 

[NY_Dutch]

One tip for minimizing black tank odor in the bathroom is to make sure you do NOT have the vent fan turned on when you flush, and in your case, check the level.

 

[SeilerBird]

We were concerned about leaving the black water tank fill to 2/3 because we may come home for a week and then go back up. That means the blackwater tank is sitting for that period of time waiting for us to come back.  So, if we stay for 4 days or 6 days we have been draining the blackwater tank, not want to leave it sit until we come back.

There is your problem right there. There is no problem with leaving the black water tank without draining it first. In fact you would be much better off not ever dumping until you get to at least 3/4 full.

You are undoubtedly not using enough water. You should empty the tanks and then put at least 5 gallons of fresh water into the tank. When you flush you should count to 5 before releasing the handle. Water is your friend. The more the better. Water breaks down the solids, the toilet paper and dilutes the urine. This takes time. If you use it for only a few days the solids won't break down and then if you drain the tank the much of the solids will remain in the tank.

You are probably not using enough water and then dumping too early. This leaves lots of solids in the tank. Then letting it sit without water allows the solids to dry out and get really solid, creating an odor that is tough to get rid of.

  The other reason for concern was when I "flush" the toilet I was still getting an odor.  Even though we have cleaned it each time, put in the appropriate chemicals etc.

You should not get an odor from the tank when you flush. What has happened is that you are not completely cleaning the tank out. Since you have been draining the tank too early and not using enough water the solids are building up inside the tank. This is what you need to do to solve the problem.

First go get yourself a clear plastic sewer hose part like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-39572-Clear-Sewer-Adapter/dp/B00192KZQ2/ref=pd_sim_auto_1

and place it between the sewer hose outlet and the sewer hose. They also make them curved if that would work better.

Next get yourself a wand like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-40074-Flexible-Swivel-Shutoff/dp/B0006IX7YC/ref=pd_sim_auto_9

Note: Both of these parts are available at most Walmarts in the RV section of automotive.

Shut off the water pump and open the toilet valve all the way. Put the rotating head down into the black tank through the toilet valve opening and turn on the water to the hose. One person should move the hose around the inside of the black tank and another person should monitor the output of the tank. I do this by myself and it takes a lot of walking back and forth between inside and outside. Keep moving the hose inside the black tank until the output is nothing but clear water.

I had a problem with stuff building up inside my tanks and it took me an hour of rinsing the first time to get the water to run clear. Once you have completely cleaned out your tank then close the valve and add 5 to 10 gallons of fresh water and do not use any chemicals.

Since you don't have sensors you will have to look into your black tank periodically to see when you should dump. Never dump before 3/4 full and use lots of water. You should not have an odor problem.

 

[gobblertales]

thanks everyone so much.  I checked and we have a 32 gal. black tank.  I usually fill it up each time with 5 gallons of water.  (I used a gallon
jug to make sure it was 5 gallons).  so we have been starting off with that, and always aded additional water.  BUT, it seems perhaps the problem has been draining it out each time we have left.  We will be traveling more after hunting season, but since Sept. we have been leaving the RV in camp inGa. and driving back and forth. Hunt 4 or 5 days and go back to Florida, emptying the black tank before we leave.  We did this because the first time we went home and came back (we did not drain the black tank) it stunk to high heaven in the bathroom upon our return.  So I got in the habit of draining the black tank.  BUT, I cannot swear I had enough water, etc. that first time.  So, we are going to listen to what you all are saying.  Make sure about enough water, and not draining until we are 3/4 full (I have to peer inside but I should be able to make a guess... but sure wish I had sensors though). But this has helped us out a lot.  Funny though, would never have guessed being "too clean" was a problem LOL  Seriously, thank you all so much!!!

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Five gallons is plenty - probably more than you need on that size tank.

Stink is rarely a full/empty kind of thing. If it's going to stink, one gallon will smell just as bad as 30 gallons. But it shouldn't stink at all - the natural bacteria normally prevent that. And even if there is some odor, it is not supposed to be backing up into the interior cause there is a vent to the outside. You only get tank air back into the toilet room when you flush (which is why having a bath vent fan on can/will suck tank air back in when you flush).

 

[Quillback 424]

If the dump station has one lane that is slightly tilted toward the dump, you may try using that lane to get a more thorough dump.

 

[Molaker]

If the dump station has one lane that is slightly tilted toward the dump, you may try using that lane to get a more thorough dump.

If I want a more complete drain, I sometimes raise the opposite side of the MH with my levelers.

 

[garyb1st]

I don't even check the level of our black tank.  The sensor hasn't worked since the second time we used the trailer.  It reads 3/4 full after we dump.  However, I do dump after x number of days.  The x is easy.  My tank is 40 gallons.  I figure each time I flush it adds about a quart to the tank.  So in my case, 160 flushes.  That's a lot of use.  I can't imagine even a 32 gallon tank such as yours filling within a week.  However, if your parked more than 4 or 5 days at one spot, flush every 4 or 5 days.  We've dry camped for 8 days and didn't have a problem.  On the other hand, the gray galley tank overflowed.  I believe it simply maxed out since it hasn't leaked again.  As Gary Roamer says, 5 gallons is a bit much.  We add about 2 gallons after we flush and haven't had a problem.  No order unless the valve isn't seating properly.     

 

[scottydl]

I don't even check the level of our black tank.  The sensor hasn't worked since the second time we used the trailer.  It reads 3/4 full after we dump.  However, I do dump after x number of days.

That's how our black tank sensors always were (likely caked with goop on the inside and therefore non-working) on our MH.  With a family of 5 (4 of us using the toilet), we could go 6-7 days without dumping the black.  I generally would flush an extra half-bowl of water down the pipes after someone went #2, just to make sure there was plenty of water in there.  Always refilled with 4-5 gallons (4-5 toilet bowls full of water flushed down) after dumping and that seemed to work fine.

I had that left-the-camper-for-a-while bathroom stink only once, after starting up for the season in the Spring.  The water in the tank had evaporated over time (which will happen, and a reason I'd recommend 5 gallons of water over 2 if the RV will sit for awhile) and there were small amounts of dried solids on the tank walls and crevices that sent up a pretty bad stink.  A good internal spray-wand tank cleaning at the dump station (as described in an earlier post) took care of that problem.

 

[John From Detroit]

There, that I have seen or read about 3 types of sensors, I will describe and comment

The standard sensor is not much more than a nail or screw.. It workx once, when the tank is new, and may work again if you really really really work at cleaning the sensor wall.

I have read about pneumatic sensors (pressure operated) theory has it they may work well.. I( may have a couple here,, one of these days I need to see if they are zup tied up behind my wife's toilet (It 9is for sure they are not working and I've never seen evidence of their exitance outside a service manual, I think they forgot to install them and left 'em zip tied)

And See Level.. those work.