supplemental brake system needed on a lightweight TOAD?

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I know I'm going to upset some people here but I'm going tell you the truth.

If you hurt someone and can't prove you did your due diligence to avoid the accident you are opening the doors to litigation that will make the $2500 for a really good brake system sound cheap.

Everything you spend that can transferred to another vehicle or RV is an investment. The tow plate and labor at about $500 is actually your biggest expense unless you sell it as a toad.

I have a Demco and RVi system. Everything but the tow plate can be easily transferred but theoretically the car could be sold as a toad which should increase the value. Demco has adapters to Blue Ox and Roadmaster tow bars which also helps.


 
justgeorge411 said:
Thanks I've read the state-by-state lists and it looks like under 3000 lbs I'm legal in any state.  I was asking, is it "needed".

Mandated = Is there a law requiring it.
Needed = Does the manufacturer of your tow equipment recommend it or would a reasonable jury decide that the operator should have heeded some expert advice or opinion - i.e. can negligence be proven.
Desired = Will a brake system improve relative safety and durability of a "towing system" that includes the towed vehicle and the towing vehicle.

I have towed 3,000 pounds on many "short" distances on various tow vehicles.  If I was routinely towing more than 2,000 pounds with the same vehicle for miles and miles and miles I would at least factor in mechanical hydraulic trailer brakes.

For a 4-down toad I would add braking.

You've determined in your case that it is not mandated and your question is whether it is needed. I would carefully examine the recommendations of the manufacturer of the tow equipment and your tow vehicle manual.

Is it desirable? My answer would be yes for repeated loads above 2,000#
 
I haven't seen anyone address the issue of what happens should your tow bar fail, whether it is a structural problem with the tow bar or a problem of connection errors.  Should the towed break away completely from the rv, how is it to stop without a braking system. 

In addition, should the safety cables hold if the tow bar fails and the towed is still connected by the cables, how are you going to stop without the towed impacting the rear of the rv causing damage to both the rv and the towed?  I have a friend that had this happen and it caused over $4000 damage to each the towed and the rv.
 
I can't remember who posted it, but one of our members just had that very thing happen to him. His Blue Ox towbar broke at a weld (IIRC) but the safety chains kept the towed vehicle from veering into traffic. He said he hit the brakes hard, but wished he hadn't, because it caused the front of his car to hit the rear of his motorhome, damaging both. I seem to remember that he said he wished he would have come to a more gradual stop, because his auxiliary brake was engaged, and was slowing the towed vehicle.

Kev 
 
I had a Blue Ox failure, both tow bar and base plate. The only thing that saved me was a different braking system from another different manufacture. I have not used Blue Ox since.
 
This topic always boils down to how risk-adverse each person is. A functioning toad brake always shortens the stopping distance, so potentially avoids a collision in worse-case scenarios.  And a toad-brake with the breakaway feature could avoid or reduce damage in the event the toad comes loose for some reason.  Note that state towing laws require safety chains to protect others from your potential towing failure, but protecting your car & coach from damage is strictly your choice.

The scenarios where a decent quality toad brake becomes a really good thing may be relatively rare, but they do occur.  The probability will  depend somewhat on your driving skills and aggressiveness as well.  It's much like insurance - it's a waste of money until the day comes when you need it. Then it is near priceless.
 
I like the remote monitoring from inside the RV of the Blue Ox brake system and the peace of mind of having the breakaway feature in case your tow comes unhooked from the RV. For some reason, the brake bracket is a little tricky to get attached to the brake pedal, but once attached, it works perfectly.
 
There is a bit of physics.. When you calculate how far you will skid in an emergency stop one of the more interesting things is that the weight of the consist.. if ALL WHEELS ARE LOCKED, appears in two opposed places.
You need to shed E-MC^2 units of energy.. C is how fast you are going (Relative to the speed of light but all you need to know is it's SPEED.. M is your mass.. Note that mass = NOT weight but for any given spot on the planet there is a conversion constant. (It varies depending on location)
NOW your braking force is = to the coefficient of friction, which is the same for all vehicles over the same road, times your weight.. So the heavier the vehicle the more the tires drag on the pavement. The weight factors out. So a Small car going 40 miles per our on what they call a "Reference road" will skid 88 feet.. The condition of the tires does not matter either.
A Fully loaded 80,000 pound semi. will also skid 88 Feet.
Now let's add a towed that does not have an aux braking system
NOW the MASS includes both the towing vehicle and the towed... But the WEIGHT braking only the towing vehicle...... Yup. you gonna skid farther... and remember the C^2 part is in the Top half of the equation.. SO you skid much farther.
 
I like the remote monitoring from inside the RV of the Blue Ox brake system and the peace of mind of having the breakaway feature in case your tow comes unhooked from the RV. For some reason, the brake bracket is a little tricky to get attached to the brake pedal, but once attached, it works perfectly.
This towed vehicle braking system is a top-quality product and is highly recommended to RV users who want a safe and secure family road trip.
 
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Though the 'Box in the driver's seat" systems do have their uses.. If you have a "Fleet" or toweds.
I'm opposed to them for two reasons on of which you stated "It's a bit tricky"
Also it's way to easy to say "oh I'm only going a few miles... I'll just forget it.
And regret that decision when someone blows a red light in front of you and WHAM.
 
Though the 'Box in the driver's seat" systems do have their uses..
That type was the very first brought to market and I think it was Brake Buddy who was first, but don't bet the farm on my memory! That said, I used a Brake Buddy for more than 20 years, starting with the original model back in the 90's and then upgrading to a newer one about 2010. What is best will depend on a lot of variables but we towed relatively light weight towed vehicles compared to the motorhome and so didn't need braking on them in a normal stop. I kept mine adjusted to only turn on in hard stop and to brake hard when it did turn on. Probably the main weakness in that type of auxillary brake is that it isn't proportional. If you have a motorhome with air brakes I would go with one of those that operate from the motorhome air system but for a gas rig with a light weight towed I'd probably still go with either the Brake Buddy or the Patriot.
 
I've got the Demco Stay in Play system on my Jeep. I like it because there's no wiring to do on the motor home. Install the setup in the Jeep one time and you're done. Just have to add hooking up the breakaway cable and flipping a switch in the Jeep to your hook-up routine. I towed for almost 10 years with 2 different coaches without brakes on the Jeep. The first time out after I installed the system it saved me from rear ending some jerk that brake checked me on a rainy day in Texas.
Versions available for both gas and diesel coaches.
 
You guys realize that this thread started in 2020?

This new forum software makes it easy to create 'zombie threads'. Perhaps the date/time stamp should be bolded so it stands out a bit better?

With that said I have to admit that I've resurrected my share of zombies too. :LOL:

Wally, It's good to hear that the Stay-N-Play system I sold you saved your bacon.
 
All of Canada,, and many states,, require "a brake per wheel",, more than likely that law will spread as needed..>>>Dan ( Its a very satisfying feeling when I kick the air brakes on my diesel pusher and feel the air brakes on the Jeep Liberty start pulling me back as well..)
 
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I've thought of trying a toad on my Class C. I wouldn't dream of having one without supplemental braking. Not worth the gamble. About 8 years ago, I was driving my motorcyle down the 405, and a young lady in front of me decided to do a full lockup on her Toyota. Smoke rolling out of the wheels, etc. Now, theoretically that bike should have stopped in time. It was rated to. However, one broken nose and a totaled bike later, it didn't. Not worth the risk if you ask me.
 
Wally, It's good to hear that the Stay-N-Play system I sold you saved your bacon.

Yes it did, and now I'm getting ready to pull it off the Jeep and pass it on to someone else. I bought that motorcycle, so I had to buy a trailer so I could carry both.
The good thing is, it's going on another Jeep TJ, so it's a direct install. When I first installed it on my Jeep, I had to lengthen the cable from the actuator to the floor. That cable ended up breaking where it had been clamped for your toad. This won't be a problem in this case because the Jeep it's going on is basically identical to mine.
 
This new forum software makes it easy to create 'zombie threads'. Perhaps the date/time stamp should be bolded so it stands out a bit better?
History shows that it wouldn't prevent/dissuade folks from replying to old threads. I'll check if it's a setting in the ACP, but I suspect it's fixed in the custom template.

Our old forum software had a popup warning for old threads (I could define the threshold), but folks still replied. There's a similar option available for Xenforo as a paid add-on, but I no longer control that stuff.

I too have occasionally replied to a Zombie thread :oops:
 
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