Thoughts on new Dutch Star 4081 vs. new Phaeton 40IH?

[nmorgan]

We're considering upgrading, and these two are at the top of the list. First, we currently have a 2021 Entegra Emblem that we really enjoy. We're just ready to upgrade to a DP... want to get out of the slow truck lane on the longer climbs, have greater towing capacity, etc.

Both models have similar floor plans. Key features for us are ride quality, ability to handle the mountains while towing, opening windows (heck... we're still camping, right?), build quality, insulation (both for temperature and noise), etc.

The Dutch Star is coming in about $70K higher than the Phaeton.

 

[Arch Hoagland]

$70K will buy a lot of fuel. Buy the cheaper one and start traveling.

 

[Kirk]

The Dutch Star is coming in about $70K higher than the Phaeton.

There are good reasons for the price difference as they may not be on the same chassis, since some Dutch Star ride on a Spartin chassis. They might be on the same Freightliner XC chassis so compare them to see. Look closely at the materials in the cabinets, solid wood or particle board? Check out the fit and finish as the Pheaton is good but Dutch Star is usually considered to be better. Then there is the budget issue which only you can decide. Just because they have mostly the same floor plans does not make the two the same quality. For me, if budget were no $70k the Pheaton is a quality RV but if not, then you can't go wrong with the Dutch Star, and especially if it is on the Spartan chassis.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

There will be $70k worth of difference in the Dutch Star, but that's a lot of fuel & maintenance money and may be more valuable for that than in extra Newmar quality. Sometimes "Best" isn't worth the extra cost vs "Good".

A more equitable model comparison to the Dutch Star would be an Allegro Bus instead of the Phaeton. Did you consider that? May still come in at a lower price.

You gave two reasons for upgrading:

• Want a DP
• Better performance on hills

They are both DPs and both will bring DP features like air suspension & brakes, rear engine, Both are 40 footers vs the smaller 35 ft Emblem, and the floor plans are about the same. So on that score they seems a wash.

You didn't mention any performance factors and it may be that neither meets that goal. Or only one, or both. Hill climbing performance is largely a matter the Horsepower-to-Weight ratio. While a diesel's low-rpm torque is helpful for smooth & quieter acceleration, you still need raw power to drag that heavy rig up a grade. And the right gearing to apply that to the wheels. There is no guarantee these coaches have better hill-climb capability than your lighter gas engine coach. You may need to do more homework on that. Both the coaches are equipped with the Cummins L9 450 hp engine & Allison 3000MH transmission, but the Dutch Star is almost surely heavier. It's GVWR is 49,000 vs 40,000 for the Phaeton and it has a tag axle to carry that extra cargo weight. Look at the unladen weights (ULW) to get an idea about performance without whatever cargo you might bring.

 

[Utclmjmpr]

My brother has a 2025 Dutch Star on Freightliner chassis, all electric with 450 HP.. All in all he likes it except for the on going cost of operation.. He reports 6-7 miles per gallon feeding this monster,, and recently had an oil and filter change that cost Him $1000.00 at a Freightliner dealership ( it was there for a federal recall ) He also hates to buy and add DEF all the time,,,it is a beautiful coach, but at six hundred eighty thousand I will pass and continue to drive my 28 year old American Tradition and getting a consistent 10 miles per gallon, no DEF< and cost of oil and filter ($200.00) to change at 15 thousand miles...
It gets me there just as easily and comfortably as his does. And with 159000 on the clock
its reliability can't be faulted..>>>Dan

 

[SargeW]

Honestly it doesn't make much difference these days. Starting in 2026 the parent company of both brands, Thor Industries is transferring Entegra build duties to Tiffin. There may some slight differences in build, but Jayco, and thus Thor still hold the purse strings.

And since Thor took over Tiffin a few years ago, the build quality and Tiffin reputation has changed considerably. Pick the floor plan and features you want and go for it.

Read about the change here. Entegra Coach to Transition Class A Diesel Brands to Tiffin - RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Honestly it doesn't make much difference these days. Starting in 2026 the parent company of both brands, Thor Industries is transferring Entegra build duties to Tiffin. There may some slight differences in build, but Jayco, and thus Thor still hold the purse strings.

The OP is comparing Tiffin (owned by Thor) to Newmar (owned by Winnebago). Not Entegra (now owned by Tiffin/Thor).
Phew! Gotta have a scorecard to know the players!!!

 

[Larry N.]

Personally, I'd go with the Dutch Star, since I have the perception (may not be correct) that it's a better quality coach, but to me a big factor is the bedroom/bathroom emergency exit on the Newmar coaches. On the 2016 Ventana there was an actual door, not a tiny window slot, for emergency exit from the rear bath (next to the bedroom). On later models they added a telescoping ladder mounted in the door to make emergency exit MUCH easier, even for us old fat people.

I also liked the Comfort Drive feature (Don't know if the Tiffin has that) which reduced fatigue on long trips, especially in crosswinds and gusty winds- a BIG help.

 

[SargeW]

You right Gary, I had Entegra on the brain. Unfortunately I'm not sure that Winnebago is any better than Tiffin or Thor as a parent company. (I owned two new Winnebago DP's in the 2000's)

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I also liked the Comfort Drive feature (Don't know if the Tiffin has that) which reduced fatigue on long trips, especially in crosswinds and gusty winds- a BIG help.

Tiffin does not . The Phaeton is on a Tiffin-unique Powerglide chassis built for them by Freightliner. But the Powerglide XC has a ZF independent front suspension and Freightliner's V-Ride, so pretty good in its own right.

 

[UTTransplant]

You are going to spend a lot more time living in your rig than driving it. Pick the one that you really like the most. Might be the upholstery or the colors or the specifics of the rig, but drivability would be lower on my list than interior enjoyment. And I do agree that the Tiffin Bus is a better comparison to a Dutch Star than a Phaeton. And as others have noted, you can buy an awful lot of fuel for $70K.

 

[SargeW]

The Powerglide chassis is now made by Freightliner since 2024, so how much different it is than the Tiffin produced chassis is debatable. Another one of Thor's moves to consolidate the brand and cut costs.

 

[Brad Buchanan]

We're considering upgrading, and these two are at the top of the list. First, we currently have a 2021 Entegra Emblem that we really enjoy. We're just ready to upgrade to a DP... want to get out of the slow truck lane on the longer climbs, have greater towing capacity, etc.

Both models have similar floor plans. Key features for us are ride quality, ability to handle the mountains while towing, opening windows (heck... we're still camping, right?), build quality, insulation (both for temperature and noise), etc.

The Dutch Star is coming in about $70K higher than the Phaeton.

We have a 40" do. It handles mountains quite nicely and will climb at 45mph on most hills.

That being said you will always be slower than most on the highway.

There are rigs that have 6 or 700 hp. However their fuel economy shows it.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The Powerglide chassis is now made by Freightliner since 2024, so how much different it is than the Tiffin produced chassis is debatable. Another one of Thor's moves to consolidate the brand and cut costs.

Freightliner Custom Chassis publishes the specs for the one they build to Tiffin's order (see the link in my earlier reply). Class A diesel chassis are highly configurable anyway, and the new "Powerglide" is just an FCCC XCR 266" chassis configured with available high-end options like ZF IFS, ZF telescoping wheel, Optiview controls, and the Roadwatch driver assist package. Same as the Tiffin version. About the only thing unique to Tiffin is the steer wheel with Powerglide insignia and a Tiffin-supplied receiver hitch.

The Tiffin built Powerglide used an IFS, V-Ride and Roadwatch anyway, but featured a "Super" raised rail chassis that supposedly gave an extra 6" of basement height. I've not seen an actual comparison of the Super vs the standard FCCC XCR rails, so can't verify that.

 

[Larry N.]

There are rigs that have 6 or 700 hp. However their fuel economy shows it.

And usually they NEED it. My 2007 Beaver Patriot had a 525 HP engine but it weighed 50,000 lbs max, though it was usually 42,000-44,000 as we ran it, and it was slower climbing hills (with or without toad) than my 360 HP Newmar Ventana that maxed at 36,000 lbs (we were usually at 33,000 lbs plus), with or without toad. And the Beaver typically got about 5-5.5 mpg vs the Ventana at 8-10 mpg, depending on wind and terrain. Figures for both are when most of the travel is while cruising at 65 mph.

Most DPs I've seen (and certainly those I've driven) sure slow down a lot going up steep hills, though the slowdown can take a while, and usually (not always) is still a bit faster than most semis but slower than the diesel pickups pulling a 5W.

 

[Derby6]

but at six hundred eighty thousand I will pass

Whew--I am VERY seldom in the Motorhome section. That is probably why...LOL
Good luck to the OP. I so wish I could afford or feel comfortable spending that much on an RV, but I just can't do. Man are they nice though!

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Whew--I am VERY seldom in the Motorhome section. That is probably why...LOL
Good luck to the OP. I so wish I could afford or feel comfortable spending that much on an RV, but I just can't do. Man are they nice though!

A top-of-the-line gas motorhome has an MSRP over $300,000 these days, though that price is steeply discounted at the dealer. The good life don't come cheap!

 

[nmorgan]

Thanks, all! Love all of the feedback, advice, and technical details. We got a chance to drive both today, and while the Phaeton felt peppier, it was also very bouncy. The weight of the DutchStar really gave it a fluid ride.

So, the last real question... with the DutchStar, will I still relegated to the slow truck lane, 45 mph, blinkers on for the 4 mile long 5% grade hills we encounter on our travels? (Always avoid the true mountains)

 

[Larry N.]

So, the last real question... with the DutchStar, will I still relegated to the slow truck lane, 45 mph, blinkers on for the 4 mile long 5% grade hills we encounter on our travels? (Always avoid the true mountains)

So much depends on which model/size/weight/power you have, how you load it, whether you have a toad and whether you can get a running start or are stuck behind a slow vehicle. I've not driven the Dutch Star, but I found on the two DPs I've had that if I can get a running start (even with a toad) then I'll have a (somewhat) gradual slowdown going up, how gradual depending on the above plus how steep (4%, 5%, 7%, ??) and what you have for winds, but please don't expect miracles- you'll be disappointed -most any of them will slow to some degree up steeper hills, and how much will be variable, due to the above factors.

But if you're stuck behind a slow vehicle you're not going to accelerate much, if any, up steep hills.

Note that on DPs, unlike normally aspirated engined vehicles, altitude might be a slight advantage due to somewhat reduced drag from the air, since the DPs are turbocharged so don't have the power loss at 5K plus that many others have. But note that I said slight.

I don't think anyone can make you any guarantees, and you can certainly expect some amount of slowing with any of the DPs except on shallow hills.

 

[UTTransplant]

You can’t expect a 40K+ pound vehicle to perform like a passenger car on a hill no matter what the engine size is. I have a lighter rig than the ones you are looking at with a smaller engine (32,000 pounds, 360hp engine) and I find I go slower than cars and faster than loaded semis up hills. That is, I do until I get stuck in third gear behind a loaded semi going slower! Then I just can’t accelerate back to the speed I was going. And a 4-5% grade isn’t much; since we travel almost exclusively in the west, we pretty routinely take 7% grades and sometimes significantly more. But thinking you will fit somewhere between passenger cars and loaded semis will make you more content.