Towing a 10,000lb 5th wheel

[Primerump]

My daughter is upgrading to a fifth wheel, based on their anticipated usage and floor plan, they have chosen a Grand Design Reflection 100 22RK. I was asked if the Chevy 2500HD (6.6L Gas )would be a good tow vehicle for this. As I have no experience of towing a 5er, I'm asking here for anyone with experience towing such an RV

the important spec's are GVWR = 9995lbs, Pin weight = 1130lbs dry
the chevy has 5th wheel towing capacity of 18000lbs
and payload of 3400lbs

I'm sure it's more than capable, but real experience is another thing..

thanks

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

That 1130 dry pin weight is a meaningless number - it hasn't been "dry" since it left the factory. She should get a scaled weight for both gross and pin weights, but a safe estimate would be that the actual pin weight will be 20%-25% of GVWR or roughly 2000-2500 lbs. The truck needs to be able to carry as "payload" both the pin weight, the trucks passengers, and any gear in or on the truck. The total will probably come near that 3400 max payload. Pulling is not a concern.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Do they already own the truck? If not, care must be paid to the door jam sticker numbers. Every option on a truck, especially the very high end comfort packages with heavy electric seats, decreases the truck's payload. Don't get sucked in by a brochure that says "up to 3400 lbs payload capacity" and then buy some high end model that only has a 2800 lb (or less) payload.

While a gasoline engine has very good engine braking for down hill, it is nothing to compare with a diesel. They will want to plan their mountain trips carefully, both for the lack of exhaust braking ability of a diesel and the lack of turbo charging for higher altitudes. I'm a diesel fan, but there is nothing at all wrong with a gas engine, its just different.

As Gary noted, its going to be heavy. You did not provide front, and especially, rear axle gross weights (found on the door jam sticker) and the rear axle max weight will be especially important. Don't forget, the average 5th wheel hitch weighs in the neighborhood of 200 lbs.

Charles

 

[RayIN]

This online 5th wheel towing calculator will help with the numbers. 5th Wheel Weight Calculator
What no RV or truck salesman wants to talk about is wind drag that adds to HP requirements.
Wind resistance increases by the square of speed. This means at 45 MPH a truck might pull this 5er easily, increase speed to 65 MPH and the truck might be struggling on level ground.
I towed a 10,000# 5er with a 3/4T 1996 Dodge CTD over most of the U.S.A.; mountain grade were a struggle at times, while rolling hills and level ground were a piece of cake.
That was the maximum for the truck to handle though; when we upgraded to a 15,500# 5er I had to buy a dually diesel to handle the pin weight.

 

[Primerump]

This online 5th wheel towing calculator will help with the numbers. 5th Wheel Weight Calculator
What no RV or truck salesman wants to talk about is wind drag that adds to HP requirements.
Wind resistance increases by the square of speed. This means at 45 MPH a truck might pull this 5er easily, increase speed to 65 MPH and the truck might be struggling on level ground.
I towed a 10,000# 5er with a 3/4T 1996 Dodge CTD over most of the U.S.A.; mountain grade were a struggle at times, while rolling hills and level ground were a piece of cake.
That was the maximum for the truck to handle though; when we upgraded to a 15,500# 5er I had to buy a dually diesel to handle the pin weight.

Thanks for that link, I entered all the relevant info for that particular truck and the results are:
Avail payload = 800
GVWR = 10000
GCVWR = 17995
Tow capacity = 18400

so it appears to be ok, a little heavy but sufficient. Perhaps they should move up to a 3500 ?

they do not own a 3/4 ton truck yet, I think she wanted a big truck like her daddy.. LOL
I tried to talk her into a bumper pull, but they are sold on the 5er. I did view various
video's of people pulling a 5er and comparing the wind resistance to a bumper pull and it would appear that in general there is less wind resistance vs a bumper pull.. perhaps the 5er is slightly better aerodynamically ? perhaps someone who has towed both could comment ?

thanks again for the replies..

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

5W trailers are typically taller than "bumper-pull" travel trailers and thus encounter more wind, but they are also more often streamlined up front and frequently have a a two-tier (stepped) roof that results in a much different airflow pattern than a box-shaped TT. There are so many variables that trying to generalize about 5W vs TT wind resistance seems to me to be an exercise in futility.

 

[Bearcatrp]

My 6.4 gas engine does fine pulling my 11,000 lb 5th wheel. It does struggle in the mountains. The 8 speed really helps on hills. You should be fine provided you’re not heavy on the pedal. I had a 6 speed with the 6.4, it was terrible. You will want a 8 speed or higher with that engine. A long box also helps with stability. Plus with a long box, you can get larger gas tanks. When I upgraded from my 3/4 with a 32 gal tank, I wanted the 50 gal, which is offered only with a long box. Just take your time driving and swing wide on turns. Good luck.

 

[oldryder1]

I pull a 10,000lb 5ver with an F250 and the "godzilla" motor. It works great (8.8mpg avg over 9500 miles). I wouldn't be afraid to get a bigger trailer up to about 13000lbs but I would take a hard look at truck load capacity and trailer pin weight.

 

[RayIN]

IMO that F250 will not handle a 13K 5er in mountains safely.

 

[joerone]

I found 3 You Tube Videos explaining Towing capabilities . Keep Your Daydream, Two Traveling Teachers and Josh The RV Nerd have videos explaining all aspects of towing GVWR, GAWR etc. KYD also includes a link to a downloadable spreadsheet where you put in your truck and RV info as well as passenger/payload weights and it will calculate your tow capacity


https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

 

[Oldgator73]

so it appears to be ok, a little heavy but sufficient. Perhaps they should move up to a 3500 ?

If they don’t have a truck yet why not purchase the biggest one they can afford and then shop for the RV the truck will accommodate. Nothing wrong with having a truck that will tow a bigger trailer than you own.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

I pulled an 11,000lb 5th wheel with a Nissan Titan XD with the 5.0L Cummins. It pulled it just fine.
A GM 2500 will have no trouble with a 10,000 5th wheel trailer.

 

[triplethreat]

I pulled an 11,000lb 5th wheel with a Nissan Titan XD with the 5.0L Cummins. It pulled it just fine.
A GM 2500 will have no trouble with a 10,000 5th wheel trailer.

"Pulling" it might have been fine, as you stated it, but it's very likely, almost 100% sure that you were way over the payload capacity of that truck. Payload capacity is usually the limiting factor on any truck that is towing a 5th wheel type Camping trailer.....not as much on flatbed/utility/cargo trailers, where the load on the trailer can be moved more to the rear of the trailer to keep some of the pin weight lower

 

[Tom]

I found 3 You Tube Videos explaining Towing capabilities . Keep Your Daydream, Two Traveling Teachers and Josh The RV Nerd have videos explaining all aspects of towing GVWR, GAWR etc. KYD also includes a link to a downloadable spreadsheet where you put in your truck and RV info as well as passenger/payload weights and it will calculate your tow capacity


https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

Thanks for the links. Enjoyed watching the videos - they did a better job of explaining/illustrating it than I could.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

"Pulling" it might have been fine, as you stated it, but it's very likely, almost 100% sure that you were way over the payload capacity of that truck. Payload capacity is usually the limiting factor on any truck that is towing a 5th wheel type Camping trailer.....

…and you are 100% absolutely wrong.

 

[triplethreat]

…and you are 100% absolutely wrong.

Care to share what the payload capacity on that truck was.....if you remember?

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

Care to share what the payload capacity on that truck was.....if you remember?

No, I don’t.
I am fully capable of understanding my truck weight, my 5th wheel weight, my pin weight, and ability to safely and legally tow my own rig. I don’t need you to help.
The Titan XD info is easy to find. Then you can find a fifth wheel trailer that is within those specs. That’s the one that I owned…

 

[triplethreat]

No, I don’t.
I am fully capable of understanding my truck weight, my 5th wheel weight, my pin weight, and ability to safely and legally tow my own rig. I don’t need you to help.
The Titan XD info is easy to find. Then you can find a fifth wheel trailer that is within those specs. That’s the one that I owned…

Well, a typical 5th wheel camper will normally put down at least 20% of it's weight, as pin weight and many times it can be higher. I know a thing or three about towing capacities and towing heavy myself. So if, and I said "IF" that trailer was loaded up close to or at the 11,000 lb GVWR (no idea whether it was or not), that is likely going to be putting roughly 2200 lb of pin weight on the truck. Then adding the weight of the hitch, passengers, any/all cargo that might be in the truck or the bed of the truck, it would be very likely to be be over the payload capacity. From what I've seen those trucks "could" have a max payload number of around 2480-2490 lb, depending on how they are equipped and what options they have. So yes, there are variable there.....and your "very secret payload number" definitely plays a big part of it. Thanks for your help.....

Signed..........."Know it all!"

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

Well, a typical 5th wheel camper will normally put down at least 20% of it's weight, as pin weight and many times it can be higher. I know a thing or three about towing capacities and towing heavy myself. So if, and I said "IF" that trailer was loaded up close to or at the 11,000 lb GVWR (no idea whether it was or not), that is likely going to be putting roughly 2200 lb of pin weight on the truck. Then adding the weight of the hitch, passengers, any/all cargo that might be in the truck or the bed of the truck, it would be very likely to be be over the payload capacity. From what I've seen those trucks "could" have a max payload number of around 2480-2490 lb, depending on how they are equipped and what options they have. So yes, there are variable there.....and your "very secret payload number" definitely plays a big part of it. Thanks for your help.....

Signed..........."Know it all!"

Quite a few variables in your equation that you use to determine that I was overweight.
Keep that thought, though. I’m sure that you feel far superior to some rube that didn’t ask for your opinion.

 

[SargeW]

I have also been towing my 33' 10,000 pound fiver with my Ram 2500 with a 6.4 liter gasser. My pin weight max is 3100 pounds. Several trips across the CAT scale have verified that my fully loaded pin weight is about 400 pounds under my max. The truck is a 4X4 stock crew cab with a 6' 4" bed. If my truck had the Cummins motor, I would lose #1000 of pin weight. A one ton with leaf springs would get the payload back up, but I didn't want the diesel or the one ton. Your numbers indicate that the truck you listed would pull that 5er and be under your max weight limits.

This become a personal choice, deciding what works for you. If you can get the truck across a Cat scale to verify the weight would help with estimating the total GWVR.