Towing question????

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steph

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???? Newbie here.? We are getting ready to buy a 2007 Fleetwood Mallard 27ft Travel Trailer.? The vehicle we want to tow with is a 2005 Toyota Sequoia 4wd has towing package.? The Sequoia is rated for 6200 and the trailer weight empty is close to 4800.? The dealer tells me we will have no problem.? They will be adding something for the brakes.? (sorry I am real new at this)
What do you guys think?? ????? Will we be ok??
Thanks for your help!?
 

Carl L

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We prefer to use the trailers gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) for the trailer weight, barring an actual loaded-for-travel weighing.   
The 2006 27 ft Mallard has as GVWR of 7,900 lbs..    Your Toyota has tow rating of 6200 lbs.  Allowing 10% for safety that truck should not tow a trailer with more than 5580 lbs.  If you would tow in the mountain or Pacific west, make that 20% and 4960 lbs..

You need a much lighter trailer with that Toyota. 

Dealers!  :mad:
 

Ron

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I would suggest you take Karls advise over the dealers advise.  IMHO You just can't believe most dealers or saleman say just to make the sale.  Just ask that dealer to prove what he has told you using the data from your Toyota and the GVWR of the trailer.  I am quite sure he will have some excuse not to because he can't.

 

steph

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I was afraid of that.? I really appreciate the information.? I don't really want to have to but a new vehicle to tow the trailer.? I didn't want to have to do with a smaller trailer either.? We do have a 2001 Chevy 4wd that is rated at 9,000lbs but would make it harder to take the dog along which is one of the main reasons I wanted to do this.?
Thanks for your help.?
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Since you will have other people and things in the Sequoia, it isn't even safe to tow 6200 lbs. The 6200 lb figure is for an empty vehicle with a 154 lb driver and full fuel tank. Any other weight in the vehicle (e.g. the dog) must be subtracted from the max tow rating, so your are realistically talking about less than 6000 lbs left for the trailer, even before allowing the safety & performance margin that Carl recommends.  I also wonder about the tongue (hitch weight), which will be about 15% of the total trailer weight when loaded.  That's going to be a big load on a Sequoia.

And I'll bet if you took that 4800 lb Mallard to the scales you would find it weighing over 5000 lbs as it sits on the dealer's lot. The 4800 lb dry weight is without any options and rare is the trailer on a dealer lot that has none at all.

** I just viewed the Mallard 27 footer specs on the Fleetwood site and it shows a 5114 lb dry weight and a 708 lb hitch weight.  That's a heap more than 4800!
 

steph

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Thanks for that information RV Roamer.? I sure am glad we came across this site with so much good info.? I talked to the dealer and he still thinks we would be fine but we don't want to chance it.? Who wants to have to worry about every little thing you might want to take.?
I think we may look at the Class C motorhomes which is really what we were looking at in the first place.? Although it may be that old 6 in one hand half dozen in the other on going from having to get a new truck and the travel trailer or getting the Class C.? Probably by the time all said and done you are looking at same money.?
Thanks again!
 

ckshubin

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Am I going to be okay with this setup?

travel trailers considering:

Outback 21RS.? Dry weight:? 4545# (from actual trailer on lot, not from brochure).? Cargo capacity:? 1480#.? GVWR:? 6500#? 22'1" long.? Hitch weight:? 425#

Outback 23RS.? Dry weight:? 4910# (from actual trailer on lot, not from brochure).? Cargo capacity:? 615#.? GVWR:? 6000#.? 24' 11" long.? Hitch weight:? 565#

Tow vehicle considering:

2006/07 Toyota 4Runner Limited V8 4x4 (7000# tow) or 4x2 (7300#? tow).? GVWR 6005#.? Curb weight:? 4530#?

There are 4 of us:? myself (115#), my hubby (140#) and 2 kids (65# and 85#).? 4 bikes and the basic "stuff" - pots, pans, paper plates, cups, utensils.? We'd travel with empty tanks.

Is this unreasonable?? If it is - can you recommend another trailer or tow vehicle I should look at?

 

Carl L

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I looked at the trailer specs.? ?The 21RS looks pretty good for your uses.? ? However, that 4Runner is marginal.? ?For the east the 21RS needs? a truck with a 7222 lb tow rating.? For the west, bump that up to 8125.? ?If you plan running around the east with your ring you are ok with the 4x2 Toyoter.? ?Forget the mountain and Pacific West.

I do have a bit of concern about that light tongue weight, but the kitchen is ahead of the axles, along with the tanks I suspect so it may be curable with loading.? (tongue weight should be 10-15% of trailer weight with the low end critical).

Toyoaters are fine cars, own one myself.? ?However the 4Runner may be a bit lite.? ?Look at the Ford, GM, or Dodge pickups, SUVs, and vans, especially in the 3/4 Ton lines.
 

ckshubin

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What a wonderful answer!  Finally I feel like I have someone who told me truthfully.  I don't trust car dealers or rv dealers because they always say you can do it.

We do live here out west - in Sunny Southern California and would be taking many trips up to the High Sierra's, Yosemite and hopefully through Arizona, Nevada (lake tahoe area) and to visit family in Washington, Oregon and Idaho as well as going into Canada (through Idaho/Washington).  So, as i'm finding out, the 4runner I hoped would be the perfect around town car as well as a towing vehicle probably won't be.  I have a hard time buying anything but Honda or Toyota (own an 05 Honda Pilot I hate to give up but it's the BEST car but it doesn't tow!).  We may have to consider a Tahoe or Suburban to pull this trailer though.  I think with a certain engine it can tow in the 8000# range and higher so I think we'd be okay.  Are those cars along the lines you were recommending?

Thanks again.
 

OldSoldier

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OK Karl - one more.

TV

2005 Chevy 2500HD? Short Bed Crew cab, 6.0 gas engine, 4.10 rear axel.

5'er

Jayco Jay Flight 245RBS, dry 6315

Added data:
? ?GVWR = 8180
? ? 14 gal of propane
? ? tanks = 36,36,36

Headed for the scales this week for actual weights

Thanks in advance
 

ckshubin

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I'm looking at a different tow vehicle since the 4runner won't accomplish what we need towing wise.  I've plugged in the numbers on a spreadsheet program but don't know what they mean.  Would this be a good TT/TV combo?

'07 GMC Yukon Denali V8.  Max trailer weight/tow capacity:  7900#  GCVWR:  13000  Curb weight: 5653.  Length:  202"

Outback 21RS:  6500 GVW.  Dry weight:  4545#  Hitch:  425#

Plugged in the numbers and here's what I got adding for people, gas, propane, water heater water (no water in gray or tanks, we travel dry and fill up at campsite or camp with hookups).

Hitch pin weight - 9%

Reserve trailer cargo capacity - 1592#

Gross Combine Vehicle Weight (trailer and tow vehicle) - 11,110

Reserve tow capacity - 1891

Again, I live in California and would buy with an Equalizer WD hitch with anti-sway bar.

Are these two  vehicles a good towing match or should I keep looking for a different trailer or tow vehicle.

Thanks!  Your opinion is priceless and will save us money by keeping us owner newbies (we've rented and camped) from spending money on something that doesn't work.
 

Carl L

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'07 GMC Yukon Denali V8.? Max trailer weight/tow capacity:? 7900#? GCVWR:? 13000? Curb weight: 5653.? Length:? 202"

Outback 21RS:? 6500 GVW.? Dry weight:? 4545#? Hitch:? 425#

Do the math:? ?6500 lbs/0.80 = 8125 lbs.? of which your truck rating is 97%.? Almost there.? Look for a Tahoe with the "sports package" and a? 4.10 rear end.? ?Also look at the Ford Expedition with the 5.4L engine, 2WD and 3.73.? ? With these rigs and in S. California you don't need 4WD.? ?

If I am a bit hard nosed on weight v. towing capacity, it is based on what you told me.? ?You live where I do, S. CA.? ?You want to drive to the eastern Sierra Nevada.? ?Mammoth Lakes is at 8,000 feet above sea level and to get their you have to do the Sherwin Summitg grade? -- 8 miles of 6% grade.? ?You have to do Dead Man and Conway Summit do get you to Bridgeport.? ?

I dislike that low tongue weight.  Your floorplan shows the galley ahead of the trailer axles so that is a point in favor.  Load there will act to increase TWt, so maybe it will work out.  That said, I would consider the Equalier hitch instead of a friction bar control.  It and the Reese Dual cam are better controls than friction bars.  Dual cams like heavy TWs.  So the Equalizer may be better.

By the way, Trailer Life has not yet mounted the 2007 numbers, so you should rely on GMC or Ford for the tow ratings for their specific models.
 

Carl L

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OldSoldier said:
OK Karl - one more.

TV

2005 Chevy 2500HD? Short Bed Crew cab, 6.0 gas engine, 4.10 rear axel.

5'er

Jayco Jay Flight 245RBS, dry 6315

Added data:
? ?GVWR = 8180
? ? 14 gal of propane
? ? tanks = 36,36,36

Headed for the scales this week for actual weights

Thanks in advance

Since Karl is not in this thread, I assume you mean Carl.

That unit is rated at only a 8000 lb tow rating in Trailer Life.? ?That is too low for the trailer in question, even without safety factors swagged in.? ?However, it is a odd number tho for a 3/4 ton PU.? ?See if you can find better numbers in the owners manual or by contacting Chevrolet.? ?Do not accept dealer assurances tho. ? Go to mfr sources.
 

ckshubin

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what tongue weight percentage am I to be shooting for? 

There are 2 other trailers that have a Gross vehicle weight of 6000# - 500 less than the 21RS but are 2-4' longer (models 23RS, 25RSS).  I'll also be looking at the Zeppelin TT as well - which are about a 1000# lighter than the outbacks.

Sorry to be asking so many "easy" questions.  This is all new to me and these numbers confuse the heck out of me for some reason - somehow I cannot wrap my head around all of this.  Sometimes i'd like to just stay ignorant and hook a trailer up to a truck and go.....haa haa haa.  I know that it doesn't work that way but I wish sometimes it did!

 

Carl L

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Shoot for a tongue weight in the 10% to 15% of trailer weight range.? ?A too light of a TW can lead to an unstable trailer so the lower limit is critical.? ?Weight forward of the trailer axles can increase tongue weight.? ?The position of a freshwater tank can be critical (40 gal. of water weighs 320 lbs.? The position of the galley is important; it is the heaviestcargo area in the trailer with its pantries and fridge.? ?

Your trailer acts a lever against your tow vehicle.? The length of that leverage (moment arm) is dependent on the center of gravity of the trailer ahead of the axles.? That is reflected in the tongue weight percentage -- the higher the TW the farther forward the cg and the less the lever arm.? ?The longer that lever is the more chance of getting into uncontrolled yaw (sway).? ?So tongue weight is our friend.? ?Compesh?? ?;D
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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You are shooting for around 15% once the trailer is loaded for the road.  Much less than that and the trailer will tend to sway too easily.  As Carl points out, the kitchen area is where a lot of heavy stuff gets loaded and so a kicthen that ius forward of the axles will tend to bring the tongue weight up quickly when you start loading.  So will filling the propane tanks, assuming they are mounted on the trailer tongue.
 

ckshubin

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Okay.  I think I can finally wrap my head around all of this.

A rear kitchen would actually be detrimental to the tongue weight whereas a forward kitchen (by the hitch and tanks) or a kitchen in the middle would help increase the tongue weight and be more stable.  The trailer i'm looking for actually has a bike storage area in the front (we have 4 bikes - about 45lbs each) and the propane tanks are in the front as well.  I'll have to check and see where the water tanks are and can possibly travel with some water if it's in the front just to add a bit of tongue weight. 

I'm going to reconfigure my numbers and see if the tongue weight increases with the bikes and water....

Thanks so much!  (also checking in the Tahoe with the sport package like you suggested)
 

OldSoldier

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OK  Let's try this again, hopefully with all the right inf and from the right sources.  I selected the trailer I have specifically because I wanted significant safety and I hope I didn't go wrong.

Truck stats right from my users manual : 2005 Silverado 2500HD, Auto-trans, 6.0L Gas engine, crew cab short bed, 4.1 Axel ratio, 4WD

Maximum Trailer Weight = 9800
GCWR = 16000
Maximum 5th wheel weight = 3000

5'er Stats right from the cabinet sticker

GVWR = 8180
UVW = 6306 (unloaded weight)
CCC = 1431
EST Water = 383 46 gal)  Trailer has 36/36/36 tanks
Propane = 60

There appears to be a inconsistency in the trailer life towing brochures, specifically for 2005 when the same make and model is compared for 2004, 2005, 2006.  For some reason the 2005 data is significantly lower than both the preceding and succeeding years.  The data above are right from my users manual.

Thanks for your help.
 
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