Towning Nash 17k with 1/2 ton truck

[Debra17]

I am planning to purchase my first travel trailer in a few months and have been researching models & going to RV dealers, shows, etc.  I have decided on the Nash 17k.  I will also be purchasing a TV and am trying to decide which one.  I will be fulltiming, traveling primarily in the west and will be spending alot of time in the Rocky Mtns in CO, ID, WY.  And also will be boondocking and traveling on forest service roads.  The 17k has a GVWR of 7000 and overall length of 22'4".  I understand that I need to find a TV that will pull the 7000 lbs and also has sufficient carrying capacity.  I have received some great info in a previous post as well as reading responses to others that have asked about towing capacities.  This forum does a wonderful service in educating prospective owners on the factors that go into safe towing and I really appreciate all I have learned!

I have never towed a travel trailer before, so I have no real world experience.  I know that I can find a 1/2 ton truck that on paper will meet the towing requirements for the Nash.  BUT my question is what will the towing experience be in the real world?  Going over mountain passes, long grades, etc. What speed would I be able to maintain? Or if I encounter high winds?  I would love to hear the comments from any who have towed a trailer of this weight/length in these circumstances with a 1/2 ton.  Was the truck sufficient? 

I believe the cost of maintaining a 3/4 ton truck would be more than a 1/2 ton but not sure how big a difference this would be. I will be on a moderate budget so I don't want to go overboard.  But I do want to be safe and don't want "white-knuckle" driving.  Would a 3/4 ton be overkill?  Or should I consider going that route?

Thanks for your feedback!
Debra

 

[SeilerBird]

You do want to go overboard. It is not enough just to be able to pull the weight, it must be able to stop the vehicles and be safe in the wind and crosswind. And you need an additional amount of power to conquer the hills out west. Don't go cheap and jeopardize you and your families safety just to save a few bucks. An underpowered truck is a real white knuckle experience in an underpowered truck. You can never have too much truck but it is easy to have too little.

 

[Joe_T]

Go overboard.

3/4 ton trucks usually have beefier cooling systems and transmission.

When pulling into a wind, up a steep grade you will appreciate the extra power. When I first started out with a 1/2 ton, with a 'within rating' 5er, towing was not enjoyable unless conditions were ideal. No one was happy in the cab on those less than perfect days. Rving should be fun and driving should be mostly enjoyable.

 

[Arch Hoagland]

In 1999 I bought a GMC 1/2 ton with the 5.3 gas engine. I bought a Nash 22H trailer and we pulled it half way across Canada and then back down into all the western states.  It was a fine combination.  Nash builds a really good trailer.

The Canadian Rockies are the steepest mountains I have encountered and we've hit all the lower 48 states.  So i think you'll do fine.

Don't fret about going a little slower up the mountains, it gives you a chance to appreciate the scenery. 

Now with that all said...if I had my life to do over again I would have bought a 3/4 ton diesel because as time went on we bought a bigger trailer.

Then I had to get rid of the half ton and get a 3/4 ton. 

 

[Lou Schneider]

You don't have to follow the GVWR rule as strictly with Northwood products as with other brands.  The reason is Northwood builds an unusually large payload into their trailers. With most brands you'll be pushing the GVWR when the trailer is fully loaded, but not necessarily so with Northwood.

I seriously doubt you'll load 2600 lbs of stuff into a 17 ft. trailer, even if you're fulltiming.

You can comfortably tow that trailer with a half ton spec'd to tow 7000 lbs. or more.  But like others have said, it's not that much of a jump to a 3/4 ton truck that will handle it with ease.

 

[robertusa123]

A new 1/2 ton is more like a older 3/4 ton.  Look for something with at least a 9000 tow capacity. You don't want to be at the complete max

 

[Debra17]

Thanks for the replies!  This is all so new to me that I am trying to learn as much as I can from others with experience.

Arch - the 22H is very similar to the 17k, so that's a good comparison.  I'll be traveling solo, so I don't really see myself going to a larger trailer.  But one never knows.

Lou - yes, that carrying capacity is huge for a 17' trailer.  I do plan to install a solar charging system, so I suppose that would add a few hundred pounds.  So I like having the cushion.

roberusa123 - I had in mind about 9000 tow capacity.  I will be buying something probably 3 years old and have been looking on autotrader to see what's available.  There doesn't seem to be alot of 1/2 tons with a high tow capacity.  I think they are made now for city people who may want to go to home depot and get a few supplies or something like that!  So it may be easier to find a 3/4 ton.

I guess I should go test drive a 3/4 ton.  I've never driven one and I'm wondering how it will ride when not towing.  I expect I will camp in the same locations for a couple weeks maybe and spend time exploring around in the area.  So a good part of my driving will not be towing the trailer.  I'm not planning to buy until the spring so I have some time to look around.

 

[grashley]

There are ? ton trucks, and then there are ? TON TRUCKS!  Years ago, you could buy the truck with a puny 6 cylinder, a decent 8 cylinder or a monster 8 cylinder.  Towing ability varied a lot!  Today, most power plants are quite good.  The rear end gears and heavier suspension are what help the towing the most.

If buying new, you can get the truck set up for towing, if you have the money.  Buying used, which I recommend, takes a little longer and more research, and can save some serious cash.

A GAS ? ton will cost about the same to maintain as its' ? ton cousin.  The diesel will cost more to maintain.  The use you describe, either properly equipped ? ton or ? ton will work well.

If you go ? ton, that alone will provide the towing capacity you need.  Any ? ton will work.  If you go ? ton, do some research within the truck line you want (Chevy / GMC or Ford or RAM or Tundra, etc) to see what model / options are really needed for the truck to perform as you want.  Make absolutely sure the truck you look at has ALL of these options, and do not let a salesman change your mind.

You are not in a big hurry.  Test drive several options, narrow the search, and take your time.  What you want is out there!

 

[Debra17]

Thanks for the reply Gordon. I really like a truck that has all the bells and whistles.  I like the Lariat in the Ford line. But I've learned that all those options add weight which lowers the CCC which is crucial with a F150. So I figured I would need to look for a more bare bones model. But if I look at the F250 then I could pretty much get whichever model I want it seems like. Thats sounding like a good option ?

 

[grashley]

I admit bias, but my F350 Lariat is a very nice, comfortable, well equipped Cowboy Cadillac!

The big difference between the ? ton and ? ton is the GVWR for a ? ton is typically less than 8,000#.  GVWR for a ? ton is 9,900# or 10,000#.  While it is a heavier truck, MOST of this increase goes directly to increased payload.

By definition, payload = GVWR - actual wt of truck.

Glad I could help!

 

[Dreamsend]

Hi All
I'd like to offer some real numbers, as I to am interested in a F150/250 in the foreseeable future.  The following data is for the 2017 F 150, 3.5 V6 ecoboost, 4x4, 3.55 axle, super crew, short bed, with 10-speed trans. Also with max Towing Pkg.  BTW-- the tow pkg. provides extra cooling oil trans along with other tow accessories. So you don't need a larger truck to have these capabilities.

Max tow capacity. 12,000 lbs
Max payload. 3270  lbs
Min curb weight  4890
Max CGVR. 16900 lbs

The only numbers I haven't found yet are gross axle weights.  As to naysayers re: the short bed I guess I gotta add that super crew wheelbase is 145" with total length 231.9" while reg cab 6.5 box is 122.4" and 209.3" overall.

The max vehicle weight rating on the Nash 17 k is a mere 7000 lbs.  The payload capacity of any F 150 will handle the tongue weight. You don't need even as much truck as described above, but it seems like it would be nice.  Now the caveats:  You have to pay attention to ALL the variations available in newer model F 150 trucks.  They are not created equal.  There are different engine sizes, different transmissions, dif axle ratios, different wheelbase, cabs, and most importantly whether or not it has a standard or the Max Tow Pkg.  To get the power and capabilities you want you need to carefully spec out each of these things for any truck you find.  Google "F 150 2017 specifications" for example and they will be there.  The weight ratings vary a little depending on what you spec if you need more precision. Some options may require certain trim packages too.

You should play with the numbers for max tow rating, gross combined vehicle weight rating , truck weight, payload, tongue weight etc. so that you're comfortable with how the calculations work.  That way you can optimize your $$ and safety/comfort.  How to do it is all over the web and in this forum.

I to am looking to fulltime by myself with a TT and have fairly carefully estimated how much cargo weight I can expect.  Even with 90 gallons of water, 60 gal. propane, 4 solar panels, bank of lithium batteries, controller, inverter, converter, generator, hoses, tools, tent, and other needed stuff, the cargo comes in at about 1700 lbs.  I'm not using the TT's rated gross carrying capacity in order to help me determine a TV. 

And now I'm gonna get myself in trouble!  I've often seen it posted here about how something can be pulled with such 'n such but gee can it control it on a downhill? Or in strong wind?  Good to think about for sure.  But not real empirical, just anecdotal with common sense blended in.  I can't help but ask myself whether automotive engineers aren't also aware that roads go down as well as up?  They must since tow packages include brake controllers. I don't have info on any specifics they may calculate but it seems unrealistic to me that some safety or fudge factor isn't in already engineered into the tow number. All I'm saying is that it seems like an unspecified scare tactic to ignore the actual numbers when it comes to downhill handling.  And no I won't forget that one's driving practices figure large into the safety and comfort and that a 10 to 20 % oversize margin seems like a good thing.
Good T-day to all.

Linda

 

[Lou Schneider]

Very good, Linda!

One more consideration is the total frontal area of the truck and trailer, or the wind resistance going down the road.

RV house trailers are big and bulky and have more frontal area than a utility trailer, a horse trailer or a fold down tent trailer.  More frontal area creates more wind resistance and requires more power to move down the road, when going into headwinds, etc.

For the F150, trucks with a towing capacity of 7701 lbs or less are specified with a frontal area of 55 square feet or less, over 7701 lbs the tow rating is figured with a maximum of  60 square feet of frontal area.

The Nash 17K is  spec'd at 11 ft. high x 8 ft. wide.  Subtract ground clearance and it's frontal area is probably more like 9 ft. high x 8 ft. wide, or 72 square ft.  This is 31% larger than 55 square feet and 20% larger than 60 square feet.

I mention this because it's possible to end up with an underperforming combo if you go by the trailer's GVWR or actual weight alone.  You need more power to move the additional frontal area down the road.

This is one reason experienced RVers suggest allowing some cushion in the ratings instead of towing at the maximum load.  It's also a more pleasant driving experience if you're not running the truck flat out.

You'll do fine with the truck you specified, I bring up the frontal area because it's possible to spec a truck to tow 7700 lbs and think it will be adequate to tow the Nash.  This combo would likely give disappointing performance due to the trailer's extra frontal area.

 

[Dreamsend]

Hey Lou, thank you for reminding me about the frontal area.  I now remember seeing that I think in Trailer Life Towing Guide.  Does anyone have a measured factor of how much a 10 or 20% larger surface area for example would impact the towing capacity?  A headwind would also impact this.  I guess in the end it comes back to the sage bottom line -- get as much truck as you can afford (upkeep and mileage included) and would enjoy driving.
Linda

 

[grashley]

Hi All
I'd like to offer some real numbers, as I to am interested in a F150/250 in the foreseeable future.  The following data is for the 2017 F 150, 3.5 V6 ecoboost, 4x4, 3.55 axle, super crew, short bed, with 10-speed trans. Also with max Towing Pkg.  BTW-- the tow pkg. provides extra cooling oil trans along with other tow accessories. So you don't need a larger truck to have these capabilities.

Max tow capacity. 12,000 lbs
Max payload. 3270  lbs
Min curb weight  4890
Max CGVR. 16900 lbs

The only numbers I haven't found yet are gross axle weights.  As to naysayers re: the short bed I guess I gotta add that super crew wheelbase is 145" with total length 231.9" while reg cab 6.5 box is 122.4" and 209.3" overall.

The max vehicle weight rating on the Nash 17 k is a mere 7000 lbs.  The payload capacity of any F 150 will handle the tongue weight. You don't need even as much truck as described above, but it seems like it would be nice.  Now the caveats: You have to pay attention to ALL the variations available in newer model F 150 trucks.  They are not created equal.  There are different engine sizes, different transmissions, dif axle ratios, different wheelbase, cabs, and most importantly whether or not it has a standard or the Max Tow Pkg.  To get the power and capabilities you want you need to carefully spec out each of these things for any truck you find.  Google "F 150 2017 specifications" for example and they will be there.  The weight ratings vary a little depending on what you spec if you need more precision. Some options may require certain trim packages too.

You should play with the numbers for max tow rating, gross combined vehicle weight rating , truck weight, payload, tongue weight etc. so that you're comfortable with how the calculations work.  That way you can optimize your $$ and safety/comfort.  How to do it is all over the web and in this forum.

I to am looking to fulltime by myself with a TT and have fairly carefully estimated how much cargo weight I can expect.  Even with 90 gallons of water, 60 gal. propane, 4 solar panels, bank of lithium batteries, controller, inverter, converter, generator, hoses, tools, tent, and other needed stuff, the cargo comes in at about 1700 lbs.  I'm not using the TT's rated gross carrying capacity in order to help me determine a TV. 

And now I'm gonna get myself in trouble!  I've often seen it posted here about how something can be pulled with such 'n such but gee can it control it on a downhill? Or in strong wind?  Good to think about for sure.  But not real empirical, just anecdotal with common sense blended in.  I can't help but ask myself whether automotive engineers aren't also aware that roads go down as well as up?  They must since tow packages include brake controllers. I don't have info on any specifics they may calculate but it seems unrealistic to me that some safety or fudge factor isn't in already engineered into the tow number. All I'm saying is that it seems like an unspecified scare tactic to ignore the actual numbers when it comes to downhill handling.  And no I won't forget that one's driving practices figure large into the safety and comfort and that a 10 to 20 % oversize margin seems like a good thing.
Good T-day to all.

Linda

Linda:

Very good information.  Remember those numbers you site ASSUME a lightly equipped F150, with options ordered on at least 30% of production.  A Lariat trim line will weigh more and thus have less payload - maybe a few hundred pounds less!

Other readers, Take special note of paragraph 3  Now the caveats.  VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

The last paragraph will not get you in trouble with me!  You explained very well why I urge people to stay within specs and stay safe!  If you are overweight, can you control it?  The engineers are not sure you can!

You have a very good handle on this!

 

[bailer6334]

Debra,

Regardless of what the published truck specs are when selecting a truck look at the actual sticker on the trucks door jam as options change the tow capacity and payload of the specific tow vehicle.

Good Luck

 

[Debra17]

Debra,

Regardless of what the published truck specs are when selecting a truck look at the actual sticker on the trucks door jam as options change the tow capacity and payload of the specific tow vehicle.

Good Luck

Thanks bailer6334, I will definitely check the stickers. Appreciate the well wishes.
Debra

 

[keymastr]

You will find that F150 with 3200LBs of payload is as rare as a unicorn. Not many out there. Dealers don't order them for stock and people who custom ordered are not trading them in much. For the small difference in purchase price,(about $1000), it would be much easier to just get a 3/4 ton.

 

[grashley]

A F150 with a payload of 3000# wii be a regular cab long bed in XL or XLT trim.

No Lariat has 3000# payload.  No super cab or crew cab in any trim has a 3000# payload.

 

[Debra17]

And also, I didn't mention before, I also want 4wd so I can get to the trailheads and places I want to go to, so that adds even more weight that reduces payload.

 

[Dreamsend]

And also, I didn't mention before, I also want 4wd so I can get to the trailheads and places I want to go to, so that adds even more weight that reduces payload.

The 4x4 option adds about 200 lbs over the 4x2 regardless of trim.  That weight is accounted for in the Ford specifications table with regard to payload, tow capability, etc. See specs I gave.

A F150 with a payload of 3000# wii be a regular cab long bed in XL or XLT trim.

No Lariat has 3000# payload.  No super cab or crew cab in any trim has a 3000# payload.

Well Ford begs to differ with you.  The trim level has absolutely nothing to do with the subject capabilities.  An XL or Lariat or XLT or whatever trim has the exact same wheelbase and overall dimensions when one compares the same cab with the same bed length (except the Raptor).  I didn't just pull the data outta my ears.  The 3270# MAX payload is for ANY F150 trim equipped with the Heavy Duty Payload package that matches the other specs I provided. Without the HD it goes down to 2060#. Granted Ford may not offer every combination in every trim, for example, you can't get a 2017 Lariat with a regular cab, but that doesn't negate the data given. 
The specs at
http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/

and these are for 2017.  Other years are different.

The point of the post was to emphasize that it takes a little more analysis and math to better match a TV and TT than simply 1/2 vs 3/4 ton and people's personal preferences for a truck vs a big honking truck. I simply wanted the OP to see an example and to realize that when looking at used models to be sure and match apples to apples. 

I'm fully aware that dealers at least where I live stock up for the urban cowboy and lone contractor crowd but if I want a unicorn at least I know with appropriate effort I can have one.  The final choice is always up to each individual and their particular needs and wants.

Linda