Trying to learn the 5-er math
- Thread starter magothy1
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
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Open the Drivers door, yellow sticker, spot called Carrying Capacity will answer that. That is also know as the payload, or what you can put on it. Air bags might help, but you really should stay in the specs of what it was manufactured to carry. All trucks are not created equal, depends on what options were ordered etc. What year truck? What trim level?
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You will see a LOT of people towing overloaded, and usually, it will fall into one of three reasons why.
1. They don't know any better. They simply haven't taken the time to educate themselves as to what they have and what they are towing. Within that reason number one are many sub categories......"My brother told me it will pull it just fine" A co worker has one just like that and never had an issue. The salesman said that this truck will tow anything I've on the lot..........and on and on and on. Bottom line, the guy that has the truck didn't do his research and learn what was appropriate and large enough to handle the size trailer he has.
2. Lots and lots of folks look at one number......the rated towing capacity of the truck. It says that it will tow 17,000 lb and my trailer is only 16,500. Never mind that the 16,500 lb 5th Wheel Camping trailer is putting 3300 lb of pin weight on a truck that has 2400 lbs of payload. When you confront/discuss/try to talk to them, the first words out of their yap is........"The towing capacity on this bad boy is 17,000 lbs, and I'm under my weight capacity. Bottom line, just like the first example, they didn't do their homework and look at all the capacities of the truck... GVWR, GCVWR, RAWR, FAWR, Payload Capacity, Tire Load Capacity. It's easier for them to justify that they are "OK", because the the towing capacity is not being exceeded.
3. Here's the guy that makes me want to puke! He know how to calculate and figure the numbers, but he isn't prepared to spend the money on a truck that is actually rated high enough to tow what he has. He KNOWS he is overloaded and just doesn't care. And don't get me wrong here, not everyone is made of money, but in my humble (or maybe not so much humble) opinion, if you know that you are buying a new trailer and the truck you have isn't going to be up to the task, then do the responsible thing and either buy a lesser trailer, or maybe a used one and have enough money left over for upgrading the truck too, so that it will match the load it's trying to pull safely. This guy is the one that makes me really mad because he is a me-me-me kind of guy. He doesn't care about anyone but himself and he's going to get the trailer he wants, come hell or high water! Why? Because that is who he is...a selfish, don't care about anyone else's safety, kind of guy.
OK, rant over, resume your regularly scheduled programming! And hopefully, to answer your original question, almost every instance of a truck pulling a 5th wheel CAMPING TYPE TRAILER (not a flat utility type trailer), the truck will run out of Payload capacity before it runs out of towing capacity. And if you are over the rated payload of the truck, you are automatically over the GVWR of the truck. If you are way over the payload capacity, you may be approaching being over the RAWR too (Rear Axle Weight Rating). 5th wheel camping trailer in general, will put ~ 20% of their weight on the truck as pin weight. It can be slightly higher than 20%, but rarely is it lower (Toy Hauler will sometimes do this). And so the accepted way to calculate what truck you may need to safely carry a 5ver Camping trailer is to ALWAYS look at the GVWR of the trailer, take that number times 20% and that will give you a fairly close number to the expected pin weight on the truck. Of course, you still need to add the weight of the 5ver hitch, passenger(s), and anything and everything that the truck will carry, both in the bed and in the cab. When you add up all those numbers, you now know that you need a truck with a minimum payload capacity that is more than that total.
1. They don't know any better. They simply haven't taken the time to educate themselves as to what they have and what they are towing. Within that reason number one are many sub categories......"My brother told me it will pull it just fine" A co worker has one just like that and never had an issue. The salesman said that this truck will tow anything I've on the lot..........and on and on and on. Bottom line, the guy that has the truck didn't do his research and learn what was appropriate and large enough to handle the size trailer he has.
2. Lots and lots of folks look at one number......the rated towing capacity of the truck. It says that it will tow 17,000 lb and my trailer is only 16,500. Never mind that the 16,500 lb 5th Wheel Camping trailer is putting 3300 lb of pin weight on a truck that has 2400 lbs of payload. When you confront/discuss/try to talk to them, the first words out of their yap is........"The towing capacity on this bad boy is 17,000 lbs, and I'm under my weight capacity. Bottom line, just like the first example, they didn't do their homework and look at all the capacities of the truck... GVWR, GCVWR, RAWR, FAWR, Payload Capacity, Tire Load Capacity. It's easier for them to justify that they are "OK", because the the towing capacity is not being exceeded.
3. Here's the guy that makes me want to puke! He know how to calculate and figure the numbers, but he isn't prepared to spend the money on a truck that is actually rated high enough to tow what he has. He KNOWS he is overloaded and just doesn't care. And don't get me wrong here, not everyone is made of money, but in my humble (or maybe not so much humble) opinion, if you know that you are buying a new trailer and the truck you have isn't going to be up to the task, then do the responsible thing and either buy a lesser trailer, or maybe a used one and have enough money left over for upgrading the truck too, so that it will match the load it's trying to pull safely. This guy is the one that makes me really mad because he is a me-me-me kind of guy. He doesn't care about anyone but himself and he's going to get the trailer he wants, come hell or high water! Why? Because that is who he is...a selfish, don't care about anyone else's safety, kind of guy.
OK, rant over, resume your regularly scheduled programming! And hopefully, to answer your original question, almost every instance of a truck pulling a 5th wheel CAMPING TYPE TRAILER (not a flat utility type trailer), the truck will run out of Payload capacity before it runs out of towing capacity. And if you are over the rated payload of the truck, you are automatically over the GVWR of the truck. If you are way over the payload capacity, you may be approaching being over the RAWR too (Rear Axle Weight Rating). 5th wheel camping trailer in general, will put ~ 20% of their weight on the truck as pin weight. It can be slightly higher than 20%, but rarely is it lower (Toy Hauler will sometimes do this). And so the accepted way to calculate what truck you may need to safely carry a 5ver Camping trailer is to ALWAYS look at the GVWR of the trailer, take that number times 20% and that will give you a fairly close number to the expected pin weight on the truck. Of course, you still need to add the weight of the 5ver hitch, passenger(s), and anything and everything that the truck will carry, both in the bed and in the cab. When you add up all those numbers, you now know that you need a truck with a minimum payload capacity that is more than that total.
People will come on soon and tell you all sorts of things. So Ill be first.
Trucks weight loaded ready to travel full of fuel, passangers and stuff minus the GVWR listed on the trucks drivers door. That is the trucks available payload. If that number is under the trailers pin weight then he is good. You will get people telling you to go by RAWR, while others are going to tell you ignore everything and go.
Trucks weight loaded ready to travel full of fuel, passangers and stuff minus the GVWR listed on the trucks drivers door. That is the trucks available payload. If that number is under the trailers pin weight then he is good. You will get people telling you to go by RAWR, while others are going to tell you ignore everything and go.
Thanks very much for all the above. I'm a ways out from deciding which way to go with what. I saw an ad for a rig but it seemed to me the numbers didn't work for what I'd read here and elsewhere. I'm not near the truck, so I can't get to the door numbers. It seemed to me that the 2800 pounds of pin weight was a bit much for an F-250. I'm not trying to knock anyone's rig at all, just hoping to learn.
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magothy1 said:
2800 lbs of payload for an F250 is very normal......if....it a gas engine and not the diesel. I'll give you a very typical example here. My previous truck, a 2011 F250 CrewCab, 4x4, XLT, with the 6.7 Diesel and a 6.75' bed, had a payload capacity of 2148 lbs....as per the door sticker on the driver's side door post. That same truck, if it were the gas engine would have been in the 2700-2800 lb payload range. Eliminate the 4x4 option and 3000 lbs or a little more is doable. There is a cost involved for options....diesel motors, 4x4, Lariat trim/King Ranch, etc. No only does it cost you more $$, it costs you in available payload capacity. The truck I mentioned above, my 2011 would have been even lower in payload had it been a Lariat or King Ranch....most $$ and more stuff on it = less payload capacity.
