Ultra Low Sulfur Availability & Issues?

[temberwolf]

Bernie,

Are you saying 07 vehicles selling today are ok on regular diesel, but those rolling into dealers Jan. 1st will not?  Thanks

 

[AlGriefer]

Bernie,

Are you saying 07 vehicles selling today are ok on regular diesel, but those rolling into dealers Jan. 1st will not?? Thanks

Cummins stated to me that it only applies to engines manufactured after 1/1/07.  Most RV manufacturers (and maybe truck manufacturers) have pre-ordered a large number of engines.  Monaco, for instance, said that it would be well into 2007 before they were shipping RVs with 07 engines.

Al

 

[John From Detroit]

As it happens this months FMCA magazine has an article on just this issue.

1: ULSF (The new Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel) in older engines:  No problems are anticipated with this, The major side effect will be a reduction in sulfur emissions and a reduction in "Rotten Egg" smell if you have ever experienced it, No effect on engine or performance

2: LSF use in newer engines,,, Using this for long will quickly clog emissions control stuff like catalytic converters and/or EGR valves which will be found on newer engines,  However OCCASIONAL use should be tolerated.  It may result in some loss of life of the emissions control hardware but otherwise will not bother the engine itself  They suggested no more than two tanks and mentioned that visiting Mexico may be an issue.

That said, I drive a gasser so this is just interesting info from where I sit

 

[BernieD]

Are you saying 07 vehicles selling today are ok on regular diesel, but those rolling into dealers Jan. 1st will not?  Thanks

Yes & no. As others have also indicated, it is the manufacture date of the engine, not the model year of the vehicle. It may be 2-4 months into 2007 before we start seeing vehicles with engines built in 2007 and subject to the ULSF requirement. However, I have started seeing ULSF in stations already. Not sure about Mexico.

 

[Steve CDN]

Bernie,

In what part of the Country are you seeing ULSD and how are the stations indicating they have it available?  Is there a sign to advertise it's availability?

Here's a statement I recently read about availability in Canada:

Environment Canada has regulated that the maximum allowable limit for
sulphur in on-road diesel fuel is 15ppm effective September 1st, 2006.
With that being said, they have amended this regulation increasing the
sulphur content to 22ppm from 15ppm during the period of September 1st to
October 14th due to difficulties anticipated during the transition.  Our
understanding is that all diesel fuel offered in Canada should meet the
above regulations, however, we would suggest that you speak directly with a
fuel retailer for further information.

Source:  Mercedes Benz Canada

Also attached is a copy of an Industry News article on ULSD

 

[BernieD]

In what part of the Country are you seeing ULSD and how are the stations indicating they have it available?  Is there a sign to advertise it's availability?

Steve

The station I got ULSD fuel was in Truth or Consequences, NM, a Chevron station with auto nozzles. The only indication of the fuel was the sticker on the pump. I did not notice any sticker on the other fuel stop we made in Deming at a truck stop. I had seen the LSD fuel warning on a couple of truck stop pumps in the East, but no other warnings.

In any case, since the engines currently being built and sold are not subject to the ULSD requirement, the issue is somewhat moot.

 

[PancakeBill]

All our manufacturers have bought as large a supply as possible of engines, and the estimate we herar s about the same. ?Supplies lasting into the 1st quarter. ?

 

[temberwolf]

Thanks all! Very helpful.

 

[Steve CDN]

A search of Google News returns these stories, many of which report thhe big transition is to occur Sunday October 29, 2006

In the interests of those purchasing needing to know about this, would you report any sightings of ULSD at the fuel outlets you might visit from now til the end of the year?

That information will provide these people some insights into what it will be like to get fuel.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Steve CDN]

Here is Chevron / Texaco's information site on the subject of ULSD:

Chevron ULSD FAQ's

PDF Brochure on ULSD regulations

 

[BernieD]

Flying J's diesel pricing web page indicates that currently nearly 50 stations are carrying ULSD. Where both ULSD and LSD are carried, the pricing was usually the same. Stations and pricing for bio-diesel is also indicated.
[edit]URL added[/edit]

 

[Steve CDN]

It's good to see the transition is taking place, Bernie.  There was a news item that this Sunday, Oct 29 was supposed to be the National transition day.

Would be interesting to hear from others in various parts of the Country in the U.S and Canada if it is available in local stations.

 

[Steve CDN]

Chevron Technical Bulletin:?

Fuel Leaks From Seals of Vehicles Using Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel? pdf file

 

[blueblood]

Chevron Technical Bulletin:?

Fuel Leaks From Seals of Vehicles Using Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel? pdf file

That's an old bulletin posted in August 2005. It has since been pretty well determined that the problem is limited in scope and focused on some older engines.  Recent experience has not shown any real problems with the vast majority of trucks in service. Cummins has run thousands of engines, millions of miles with no problem.

 

[blueblood]

EPA Administrator Johnson talking at Cummins on October 10th said that 90% of all on highway diesel fuel being produced now is ULSD. Therefore, it is virtually impossible that one isn't running some level of USLD and will increase dramatically as the supply chain draws down existing inventories and contamination levels are reduced. The refineries are producing a 8 ppm to allow for some long term contamination. The 15 ppm will be enforced at retail.  This process can be seen on FJ site where the N/A was in USLD -then a few places where both SLD and USLD was shown and now some of them are showng N/A for SLD.

 

[Steve CDN]

Leo,

Despite all the positive talk about availabilty, a visit to local gas stations or fuel stops I have visited shows no evidence of any diesel tanks being labelled ULSD.  For people whose vehicles must use ULSD, some of which began delivery after Oct 15,  this can be problematic.

 

[blueblood]

Leo,

Despite all the positive talk about availabilty, a visit to local gas stations or fuel stops I have visited shows no evidence of any diesel tanks being labelled ULSD.? For people whose vehicles must use ULSD, some of which began delivery after Oct 15,? this can be problematic.

There are no vehicles that must use USLD until those which receive engines built on and after 1/1/2007 except those in test pool. Those trucks in test pool are running routes where they know thier is USLD available at both ends of the run. 

 

[Steve CDN]

There are no vehicles that must use USLD until those which receive engines built on and after 1/1/2007 except those in test pool

Mervedes Benz has begun delivering 2007 diesels as of October 15.  These engines require ULSD.  Granted they do not represent a large segment of the market, but those affected are interested in this issue.

 

[blueblood]

Mervedes Benz has begun delivering 2007 diesels as of October 15.? These engines require ULSD.? Granted they do not represent a large segment of the market, but those affected are interested in this issue.

This was the information they put out on the 23 of October . There test models as noted.




About 20 Freightliner customers are now taking delivery of new trucks equipped with the 2007 MBE 900 and MBE 4000 engines, as Freightliner moves into the customer demonstration stage of testing.

The trucks will rack up real-world miles for customers as part of Freightliner?s Customer Demonstration Program. Dozens of trucks are involved in the program.

The new Mercedes-Benz engines have already accumulated more than 10.4 million reliability growth test miles, the company reports. So far, testing has gone well with fuel economy and performance up to par, Freightliner officials have announced.

By the time the new engines are rolled out en masse, Freightliner officials say the MBE 900 will have racked up 8.5 million test miles and the MBE 4000 will have accumulated 6 million.

 

[BruceinFL]

Leo,

Despite all the positive talk about availabilty, a visit to local gas stations or fuel stops I have visited shows no evidence of any diesel tanks being labelled ULSD.  For people whose vehicles must use ULSD, some of which began delivery after Oct 15,  this can be problematic.

The local Getty station here (central FL) has a ULSD label on the diesel pump. So far, it's the only one I have seen.