Waymo Driverless Cars in Santa Clara Valley Traffic

[Tom]

Today we had another trip down into the Santa Clara valley and caught the homeward commute traffic. We were amazed at the number of Waymo autonomous cars, both on city streets and on busy expressways. None of the vehicles we saw had anyone in the front seats. What I found amazing was the way that they zig zagged in and out of traffic lanes, and entered busy streets from a parking lot at some speed. The vehicles also seemed to ignore traffic rules, an example being when they changed lanes at an intersection with traffic lights. We wondered who would receive a ticket if seen by a traffic cop.

 

[DonTom]

The vehicles also seemed to ignore traffic rules, an example being when they changed lanes at an intersection with traffic lights.

That is NOT illegal in CA or anywhere else, AFAIK.

It's an old myth.

Unless it is an unsafe lane change, but just like anywhere else. Being in an intersection does NOT automatically make it unsafe.

I will now double check at AI:

"There is no California Vehicle Code section that specifically prohibits changing lanes inside an intersection. The California DMV and CHP have both confirmed this. "

 

[John From Detroit]

That is NOT illegal in CA or anywhere else, AFAIK.

One of the fun things about my job was the "Office Library" included a copy of the Michigan Vehicle code. as I might add, does my hard drive.

Interesting reading... There are many things people may think are or are not legal.. which they have wrong. One of the fun items I knew before I went to work for the state (A few actually but only one I'm going to post)

I kept reading letters to the editor when I was younger about the need for laws governing bicyclists. Many think they are not subject to traffic laws, can run red lights and disregard stop signs and schools teach "Ride on the left" (law says right same as cars). NO, with a few exceptions and some of them you need to get off the bike and walk it. Bicycles are subject to the same laws in MI as cars and motorcycles.. Plus a few specific to human powered vehicles.

 

[John From Detroit]

We were amazed at the number of Waymo autonomous cars, both on city streets and on busy expressways. None of the vehicles we saw had anyone in the front seats

Was just reading an article on Waymo... They have cameras that record... Like FLOCK cameras. and they record even when the WAYMO is parked.. SO you saw a FLOCK of Waymos.

Something to think about.
(But then my car records when operating) (Just does not upload to a server, unless I manually copy the file from the on-board card to my laptiop) (many "Dash cam's" upload)

 

[DonTom]

There are many things people may think are or are not legal.. which they have wrong.

Yes, I had an advantage about CA DMV stuff. When I worked at SF's Hall of Justice, I often BSed with the cop who gave the Driver Safety Class at Golden Gate Park. Changing lanes inside intersections was one of the things we discussed where he said it being illegal was perhaps CA's biggest driving myth.

But the CA driving laws change a little every year. The true CA Vehicle Code book (not the Vehicle code summary) will always be dated a year behind, because it takes a year for them to go into effect IOW, the current CA Vehicle Code for 2026 will be dated as "2025". That has the actual CA DMV law--the book the CA cops use to enforce CA traffic laws.

So I double-checked on AI, just in case anything has changed, That has not changed, according to AI, which I do believe is accurate in this case.

-Don- Baker, NV

 

[bigbAZ]

For years I though lane changes in intersections were illegal here in AZ and practically everyone else did too but as it turns out that is false.

 

[DonTom]

For years I though lane changes in intersections were illegal here in AZ and practically everyone else did too but as it turns out that is false.

Perhaps because of all the people in CA who move to AZ to bring such myths with them. Or perhaps the myth is in all states.

-Don- Baker, NV

 

[Tom]

I checked the CA vehicle code and didn't see it. So, I've apparently been driving in CA under a misapprehension for 46 years. But I'm darned sure I saw it somewhere. The lane changes were still IMHO dangerous.

Meanwhile we've lost the original intent of this thread, which was to be somewhat humorous.

 

[Ex-Calif]

I checked the CA vehicle code and didn't see it. So, I've apparently been driving in CA under a misapprehension for 46 years. But I'm darned sure I saw it somewhere. The lane changes were still IMHO dangerous.

Meanwhile we've lost the original intent of this thread, which was to be somewhat humorous.

My logical explanation is that it "is" illegal to lane change across a solid white line. Almost all light intersections have a solid white leading up to the intersection.

There are no solid lines generally inside and after the intersection.

So people assume no lane changes inside an intersection.

 

[bigbAZ]

Around here everyone plays musical chairs as they approach stopped traffic at the intersection, swapping lanes at the last second to gain a few feet. They think nothing of cutting in front of a heavy truck taking away it's stopping distance and forcing the driver to brake harder. Our crosswalks all have solid lines as you approach but are totally ignored.

It's also crazy how they turn right into the left lane and turn left into the right lane solid lines or not.

 

[bigbAZ]

The lane changes were still IMHO dangerous.

If the lane changes were done by a human I might consider then dangerous but I'll bet a self driving car would be able to avoid any mishap far better than the average human.

 

[John From Detroit]

If the lane changes were done by a human I might consider then dangerous but I'll bet a self driving car would be able to avoid any mishap far better than the average human.

One would think that till one starts reading accident reports.

Turns out they may have humans sitting in an office somewhere.
I'm not sure if they humans monitor all the time or only when the remotes screams HUMAN HELP!
or if they handle one on one or one on many. I just know they often screw up .

 

[bigbAZ]

One would think that till one starts reading accident reports.

Turns out they may have humans sitting in an office somewhere.
I'm not sure if they humans monitor all the time or only when the remotes screams HUMAN HELP!
or if they handle one on one or one on many. I just know they often screw up .

Not sure I follow, what I find in my research is the collision involvement being much lower than those of human driven cars, as in around 70% lower. I also see that of those collisions only around 4% are are the sole fault of the autonomous vehicle.

Another factor is the reporting, there are many instances where minor contact is not reported by a human driven vehicle whereas with an autonomous vehicle every incident is reported no matter how minor.

 

[DonTom]

But I'm darned sure I saw it somewhere.

So have I. Just no place official, such as in the CA Vehicle Code.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

 

[Tom]

A l lie told often enough becomes the truth."

I find it hard to believe that someone would consciously spread a lie about something like this.

 

[DonTom]

I find it hard to believe that someone would consciously spread a lie about something like this.

People often make assumptions and then spread them around. There are countless such myths. How many of them start out as deliberate lies, nobody knows. But I think we have all seen that as well.

I even started a thread on it last year, here.

-Don- Baker, NV (rain & wind all day here)

 

[TheBar]

When I took drivers ed in 1968 the local law was no lane changes within 100 feet of or inside an intersection.

The diagram in the booklet showed where a right turn on red is legal someone can be entering an intersection into the right lane on a four lane street. Someone else doing 45 going straight thru, then changing from the left to right lanes inside that small intersection leaves no time to stop before hitting the car turning right into that lane.

There also used to be laws about how far in advance you have to signal a turn, not possible inside a 4 lane intersection. It seems not everyone even signals a turn anymore.

 

[DonTom]

When I took drivers ed in 1968 the local law was no lane changes within 100 feet of or inside an intersection.

Or you sure that was law and not just advice?

-Don- Baker, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

When I took drivers ed in 1968 the local law was no lane changes within 100 feet of or inside an intersection.

Both that right turn AND the land change w/o signaling is illegal.. but people do it all the time
Also "Right turn on red" Everywhere I know of it is "STOP" "Look" "Turn" and I assume the guy in the left is an insurance fraudster who will change lanes so he can bump into me and claim whiplash so I wait for him to pass too. (Ok that's not the real reason I wait. but it's close enough).

There are several things I was taught that later in life I found....wrong. For a traffic example.

I was taught tin school to ride my bicycle on the LEFT facing oncoming traffic.
Later I read the actual law (Michigan Vehicle Code) And still have a copy handy.
Bicyclists must, with very few exceptions, obey ALL traffic laws.. and a few more besides
The exceptions: You can get off the bike and WALK it through an otherwise illegal left turn
(You can not ride it through the turn must walk)
And depending you may be able to ride on the sidewalk at reduced speed (like 4MPH or 7MPH)
On a one-way street. slow down and sidewalk

Some roads (IE: Limited access & Freeways) Unlike one of my work partners you may not ride. He landed in hospital when he did. (Got the ticket too)

Must obey stop signs, red lights, speed limits where applicable, and yield where applicable.

They forget to mention all that in school..
But it's in the law also in "What Every Bicyclist Must Know" (A booklet from DMV or MI-SOS)

 

[TheBar]

Or you sure that was law and not just advice?

-Don- Baker, NV

The DE handbooks were the laws not advice in OK. It was on the written test. And the law was sound advice.

Another law was not entering an intersection on a yellow light which I got a ticket for. In the 60's there were no delayed red lights. But now all red lights are delayed and is no longer the law.