Why no new triple slide Toyhauler with 12' Garage under 16k GVWR?

[quivanphan]

I have a 2011 short bed crew cab single rear wheel 1 ton Dodge.  My Max trailer tow rating with the right gearing is 16k pounds.
I have found that the 2006 raptor 3712 is a triple slide TH with a 12' garage and is 39' long and has a GVWR if 15,500lbs.  But any newer Toy Hauler with a triple slide and a >=12' garage is around 18k pounds and about 42' long. 

Does anyone else make a modern triple slide trailer with a 12' garage and GVWR of 16k lbs or less?  I can't seem to find any.

Did all the manufacturers figure that if you want this configuration you'd already be using a dually and not cared about the weight?

Or.....perhaps the 2006 and 2007 raptors are lying about they're GVWR and stopped lying about weights in the newer models? 

I was about to purchase a 2010 fuzion 398.  But at 18k pounds I am definitely overweight with my truck.  And the last thing I need to worry about is insurance not covering me, or me being at fault automatically if I get in an accident.  Also, I dont know how likely, but if you get pulled over and the police determine you're overweight, vacation is ruined.  You'll have to have the trailer towed home and you get a ticket right?  I've never heard of this happening to anyone but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. 

 

[RoyM-WO]

A trailer with all those features is going to be heavy, there is just no way around it. Otherwise the manufacturer would really have to skimp on construction. You either need more truck (can you say 4500?) or scale back on the trailer

 

[Memtb]

  Most are already built with minimal construction materials, in an attempt to make them marketable to a larger number of people, and of course to save on manufacturing costs. To get those features in a lighter unit...Likely you would be very dissatisfied with the build quality and the units longevity!
My opinion is (for what is worth.....free), a unit you described should have a gvwr of at least 20K pounds, sitting on 3- 7 K axles, with 17.5 wheels.

  A newer 350/3500 DRW, diesel, HD package is adequate for a 20 K+ trailer. You could modify your SRW (assuming it’s a HD diesel) to be an adequate tow vehicle for a 20 K pound unit....but it would exceed the “yellow” door sticker. And, you could potentially find yourself in a legal issue if found at fault in an accident. Unlikely, though not impossible, you would get fined for being above the trucks rating....unless you did something to draw attention!

  We’re towing 20 K, with an upgraded ( wheels, tires, suspension) 3500 Ram. It does just fine....but the “weight police” are “quivering” with anxiety!

 

[steveblonde]

Todd is correct my 2015 Voltage (same build as a Raptor) comes in at almost 15000 dry (by the time you added in the genny and other options) and a pin of almost 3000 lbs which pushed the limits of my 2013 Chev 3500 SRW 6.6 box even with airbags the current dually handles it better

each slides adds about 600lbs of weight so they cheap out on something else to keep the overall weight down

 

[quivanphan]

Thanks for all of your replies.  I completely understand that even though it says 12K dry after you fill the 110Gallon water tank, generator and pots and pans I'm probably at about 14K pounds.  Stick a 4 seat RZR and some camping gear and I am probably easily over 16K pounds.  And then you have my crew cab with 5 people and camp wood in the bed I wouldn't be surprised if in real life we weigh over 24000 pounds.  At that weight I'm just cruising at 55mph and I think I'll be just fine. 

What I'm concerned about is the jackass that pulls out of a driveway in front of me, I rear end him and I have no insurance defense since he could look up posted GVRWs and assume I was overweight.  Then I'm stuck paying out of pocket because my insurance has deemded me overweight(Not sure how often this happens in real life).

 

[quivanphan]

A trailer with all those features is going to be heavy, there is just no way around it. Otherwise the manufacturer would really have to skimp on construction. You either need more truck (can you say 4500?) or scale back on the trailer

I'm curious if anyone has ever traded in a Dually 3500/350 for a 4500/450.  Do you actually notice the difference when towing?  Short of an actual semi trailer/car hauler what kind of trailer is outclassing a Dodge/Chevy/Ford Dually 3500/350?

 

[Rob&Deryl]

I'm curious if anyone has ever traded in a Dually 3500/350 for a 4500/450.  Do you actually notice the difference when towing?  Short of an actual semi trailer/car hauler what kind of trailer is outclassing a Dodge/Chevy/Ford Dually 3500/350?

One thing is kinda funny with the 4500 class trucks and chassis cab 3500s. As chassis cabs they seem to have less hp & tourque than the 3500 pickup (RAM). Also, the load capacity isn?t that much more. Over on a diesel forum I see more upgrades to 5500s to get serious load capacity.

I suspect that the chassis cab power is derated because the manufacturer has no idea what will be put on the frame while with the pickup body, they can predict more about the dynamics.

 

[steveblonde]

I'm curious if anyone has ever traded in a Dually 3500/350 for a 4500/450.  Do you actually notice the difference when towing?  Short of an actual semi trailer/car hauler what kind of trailer is outclassing a Dodge/Chevy/Ford Dually 3500/350?

My 350 has a higher payload than a 450 with the same options by 500lbs the difference being the 450 has  4.30 gear and my350 has 3.55 so less power off the line but better milage and the 450 has a wider front axel for tigher turns. I opted for the better milage as we towed almost 12000 miles this year alone

 

[quivanphan]

My 350 has a higher payload than a 450 with the same options by 500lbs the difference being the 450 has  4.30 gear and my350 has 3.55 so less power off the line but better milage and the 450 has a wider front axel for tigher turns. I opted for the better milage as we towed almost 12000 miles this year alone

Wow really?  I assumed the 450 would have at least 25% more towing capability, bigger axles, larger brakes.  But I suppose I'm wrong.

 

[quivanphan]

One thing is kinda funny with the 4500 class trucks and chassis cab 3500s. As chassis cabs they seem to have less hp & tourque than the 3500 pickup (RAM). Also, the load capacity isn?t that much more. Over on a diesel forum I see more upgrades to 5500s to get serious load capacity.

I suspect that the chassis cab power is derated because the manufacturer has no idea what will be put on the frame while with the pickup body, they can predict more about the dynamics.

I wonder if it's a liability and insurance issue?  My friend bought a Dump trailer new and the dealer said something like:  "We can rate this for 10,000 or 14,000 pounds on title."  I would suspect they do that so you pay less for insurance.  I wonder if the same thing applies to the 4500s.  Lower specs for lower insurance costs.  On that note when I was getting quotes for insurance there were a few carriers that didn't even cover a my dodge 3500.  They said 2500 was all they had in their system.  IIRC that was esurance and with progressive they said I would have to get commercial insurance.