Winter weather prep

[Trivet]

Then 2-1500 watt heaters will draw about 25 amps.

If they're actually running at full power. I have four or five 1500-watt space heaters, and all have lost oomph over the years. I use a Kill-a-Watt to measure their actual draw, and apportion them among the circuits. The place we stay in Denver, sometimes during the winter, has two 20-amp outlets available to use. They're on separate breakers. We use one to plug the coach in to, and will run a space heater in there along with the other usual loads (and turning off the space heater to use the microwave, for example). We use the other outlet to plug individual space heaters in to, usually a 250-watt one in the basement storage where the water pump and water lines are, and bigger draw one inside.

The OP could do something similar with the power at his pedestal, assuming that the pedestal is wired such that the outlets don't share the incoming power, and it can handle putting out 30 amps and 50 (or actually 100) amps simultaneously. Not all can. But if so, plug the coach into one of the outlets, and plug heaters directly (via adapters) into the other outlet. And use appropriately beefy (gauge, not appearance) extension cords.

Actually, I'd suggest that anyone using space heaters test them with a Kill-a-Watt. It's good to know if your 1500-watt one is actually a 1000-watt one, even if you have unlimited power. And conversely, I bought one a couple of years ago that was wired weird or something, and was drawing twice what it should have been--too much for the Kill-a-Watt to measure, but when I disconnected the wiring for half of the heater elements, it was 1500 watts. I don't know what led me to check it before using it, but I'm glad I did.

 

[rvlifer]

Lots of good suggestions above.

Holding tank heaters and a heated water line are a must. I carried around a mr heater portable interior propane heater with its own 20lb tank. Those kick off a lot of heat and when the small tank ran out i could swap it with one of the bigger rv tanks to buy me time to get them refilled.

If you are hooked up and have an electric fireplace in the rv they help a lot. When i overnighted in very cold weather i would leave that running overnight in case the propane ran out.

The mr heater and a portable electri heater in the underbelly saved me on more than one occassion.

If your underbelly isnt heated finding aome way to get heat in there is needed to protect your plumbing.

Condensation can be a huge issue so opening windows and running exhaust vents at strategic times helps a lot.

 

[Kirk]

There are several full timers in the park just need to talk to them but this has to be an achievable goal or no one would do it.

Absolutely do talk with others in the park if they have been there through previous winters. Keep in mind that not all RVs are the same in terms of insulation, air penetration, and such issues. Your RV will probably be plugged into the 30A outlet but there are adapters for connecting your 30A RV to the 50A outlet and/or adapters to change the 30A or 50A outlet to use a typical cord & plug for one of the heaters or something similar. There very likely is also 20A outlet that could be used and then run a high quality extension cord to have a heater under the RV and inside of the skirting to keep things from freezing there. That may be needed if your waste tanks do not have a heat source. Since the RV did have optional heat pads for the waste tanks, it is very unlikely that there is any heat supplied to the underbelly. If you do that, be very careful with the heater to avoid fire issues. I don't think that anyone intends to say that this can't be done, only that it will not be easy or cheap. Talking to others in the park will also allow you to learn where they get propane and most other possible issues. Most RV folks are more than willing to help so do get in touch with those neighbors as soon as possible.

 

[Robert89]

Lots of good suggestions above.

Holding tank heaters and a heated water line are a must. I carried around a mr heater portable interior propane heater with its own 20lb tank. Those kick off a lot of heat and when the small tank ran out i could swap it with one of the bigger rv tanks to buy me time to get them refilled.

If you are hooked up and have an electric fireplace in the rv they help a lot. When i overnighted in very cold weather i would leave that running overnight in case the propane ran out.

The mr heater and a portable electri heater in the underbelly saved me on more than one occassion.

If your underbelly isnt heated finding aome way to get heat in there is needed to protect your plumbing.

Condensation can be a huge issue so opening windows and running exhaust vents at strategic times helps a lot.

I was actually getting on today to see if anyone knew of a good thread detailing an install of the tank heaters? I saw some on amazon but if you have recommendation on product as well please feel free to leave that as well! Thanks for the post

 

[Robert89]

Absolutely do talk with others in the park if they have been there through previous winters. Keep in mind that not all RVs are the same in terms of insulation, air penetration, and such issues. Your RV will probably be plugged into the 30A outlet but there are adapters for connecting your 30A RV to the 50A outlet and/or adapters to change the 30A or 50A outlet to use a typical cord & plug for one of the heaters or something similar. There very likely is also 20A outlet that could be used and then run a high quality extension cord to have a heater under the RV and inside of the skirting to keep things from freezing there. That may be needed if your waste tanks do not have a heat source. Since the RV did have optional heat pads for the waste tanks, it is very unlikely that there is any heat supplied to the underbelly. If you do that, be very careful with the heater to avoid fire issues. I don't think that anyone intends to say that this can't be done, only that it will not be easy or cheap. Talking to others in the park will also allow you to learn where they get propane and most other possible issues. Most RV folks are more than willing to help so do get in touch with those neighbors as soon as possible.

First of all thank you for the post, I am learning that this trailer probably isn’t the best choice for RV in this area especially for prolonged winter stays. There is not heat supplied to the underbelly but there is what i feel to be more than ample power availability at the pole and i have already contacted the local co-op for a tank rental with keep full service. Probably will be looking into trading this trailer in on a more feasible trailer after this season just need to make it through without damage.

 

[Robert89]

If they're actually running at full power. I have four or five 1500-watt space heaters, and all have lost oomph over the years. I use a Kill-a-Watt to measure their actual draw, and apportion them among the circuits. The place we stay in Denver, sometimes during the winter, has two 20-amp outlets available to use. They're on separate breakers. We use one to plug the coach in to, and will run a space heater in there along with the other usual loads (and turning off the space heater to use the microwave, for example). We use the other outlet to plug individual space heaters in to, usually a 250-watt one in the basement storage where the water pump and water lines are, and bigger draw one inside.

The OP could do something similar with the power at his pedestal, assuming that the pedestal is wired such that the outlets don't share the incoming power, and it can handle putting out 30 amps and 50 (or actually 100) amps simultaneously. Not all can. But if so, plug the coach into one of the outlets, and plug heaters directly (via adapters) into the other outlet. And use appropriately beefy (gauge, not appearance) extension cords.

Actually, I'd suggest that anyone using space heaters test them with a Kill-a-Watt. It's good to know if your 1500-watt one is actually a 1000-watt one, even if you have unlimited power. And conversely, I bought one a couple of years ago that was wired weird or something, and was drawing twice what it should have been--too much for the Kill-a-Watt to measure, but when I disconnected the wiring for half of the heater elements, it was 1500 watts. I don't know what led me to check it before using it, but I'm glad I did.

What kind of camper are you in? Do you mind telling me more about how you’re setting your rig up for those cold nights?

 

[Trivet]

What kind of camper are you in? Do you mind telling me more about how you’re setting your rig up for those cold nights?

It's a 2003 40-foot Alfa motorhome. It's a 50-amp coach, but when we have less power than that available, we do very intentional arrangement of the various electrical loads.

Denver isn't as harsh as North Dakota; as I said, it can get very cold, but generally stays that way for only a few days and then warms back up to freezing. And it gets sun. There have been days when it's in the 40s outside but the sun is beating on the windshield and I have to open a window because it's too hot inside.

If I had to be in North Dakota in the winter, I'm sure I could figure out how to make it work, but I wouldn't be super happy about it.

We have dual-pane windows, and I kind of can't imagine having single-pane windows. The aluminum frames around them are COLD, and usually develop frost on the inside.

Kirk mentioned absorption refrigerators. They won't work below a certain temperature, which we found out in Chicago once. And then it happened again. We got it working again by putting a little space heater in the area in the back of the refrigerator. It hasn't happened since then, but when it's going to be cold we run it on electricity and block about 3/4 of the outside vent to keep some warmth in there. I recall that we do that if the temperature is going to be in the teens, and if it's going to be below that, we put a drop light in there with an incandescent bulb--I think the biggest ones you can get these days might be 75 watts?

FWIW, I hate the way propane furnaces feel. They blast super hot air, and then turn off when they reach the set temperature and the RV cools off almost immediately, and the furnace starts blasting that super hot air again. That's why we favor space heaters, and lots of them if we have enough electricity available.

Our coach has a vent in the basement storage compartment that puts hot air in there if the furnace is running. However, we don't really take advantage of it because we don't run the furnace that much--that's why we have a small space heater running down there.

And be aware that there will be specifics depending on the RV. For example, one of our water heater lines runs over the rear tire, and we've had it freeze a few times. (And the problem with being in North Dakota is that it might be a long time before ambient temperatures become your friend.) We figured out that if we run the water heater on propane, it seems to radiate incidental heat that serves to keep that line from freezing. We've had our waste tank valves freeze, but that was remedied by putting a space heater in that compartment for like 15 minutes. But it taught me not to wait until the last minute to dump tanks, just in case.

One one more thing--we never keep the water hose hooked up, and always run off the tank. One thing about surviving in the cold is that you need to be mindful of everything you're doing, and having an unlimited supply of fresh water doesn't seem mindful--I think about the fresh water when I think about emptying the gray tank.

 

[Kirk]

Kirk mentioned absorption refrigerators. They won't work below a certain temperature

That is a good point. As I said earlier in the thread, if your RV has one of the 12V compressor refrigerators, which was an option for what you have, then it will do fine in the cold weather but if you have the standard, electric/propane absorption refrigerator that is standard, you will need to block about half of the lower ventilation opening and supply it with some sort of heat. In most cases a light bulb is enough but if wind should hit there it probably will not be and there is some risk of fire with an incandescent light bulb. Probably a better solution would be one of the smallest electric heaters of very low wattage.

 

[Robert89]

“If I had to be in North Dakota in the winter, I'm sure I could figure out how to make it work, but I wouldn't be super happy about it”

Very funny stuff.

The reason I was asking is because I have spent time in Colbran and in Greeley so I can kind of gauge what my experience will be based on yours there, I think that I have most of what I need figured out with the exception of how to “heat” under the trailer I have been looking into propane fuel options but I’m not sure what is safe and the marketing for this is very good in the sense that I’m struggling to wade through the BS

 

[rvlifer]

If your rv doesnt have a winter package installed that routes some of the furnace heat to the underbelly, you will need to iether find a way to gain access to the underbelly or trace where the plumbing is and get heat to as much as possible.

If your rv isnt a 4 season rv it probably wont be easy.

adding skirting, as mentioned above, to the outside can get you through but you have to make sure that it fully seals all around the rv from the bottom of the rv to the ground. You can place a portable heater on a thermostat under the rv inside the skirting.

My rv is a 4 season rv and very well insulated. I have lived in it in 0 degree weather and it is comfortable but in extreme cold it still isnt easy. Make sure you dont run out of fuel for the heaters, have plenty of extra blankets and warm clothing, and have backup heat sources on hand for emergencies.

 

[rvlifer]

I spent a winter in colorado with the main rv heater nonfunctional by running the fireplace and a mr buddy propane heater on the inside and an electric space heater under the rv. It wasnt much fun and i wouldnt want to do that in a standard, non 4 season rv

 

[Trivet]

I have a couple of those tiny heaters, made by Soleil. I just looked at mine and it's rated at 250 watts, but the ones on Soleil's website are 200 watts. Not sure why the change.

cute little heaters

That's what I use in the basement compartment unless it's going to be really cold, and then I'll put either a bigger heater, or both of my Soleils. Of course I keep a remote thermometer sensor down there, and one in the sewer compartment, too.

But one of those would probably be a good choice for behind the absorption refrigerator. When ours quit working, we managed to cram a regular-sized space heater in there, but that was only for a short period of time.

FWIW, a couple of years ago we were in the farmlands west of Chicago, and winter approached. On Christmas, we moved the moho (with us living in it) into a warehouse to re-do the rubber roof. And we stayed in there until JUNE! The thermostat in the warehouse was set for 50 degrees, so it was always chilly but a hell of a lot warmer than outside.

Psychologically, it was weird. One of the selling points of our motorhome was the enormous windows, so I've gotten used to seeing outside, and it was just weird having the outside still be inside, and never really bright. I wouldn't choose to do it again. Well, unless the only other choice was spending the winter there outside.

Oh, and one more thing: use an electric blanket or mattress pad.

 

[Trivet]

Did you happen to run across this thread, started by a guy who stayed for the winter in Massachusetts last year, on 30 amps? He reports back with the results, including how much he paid for electricity and propane. I'll note that he used very little water (composting toilet, and showers and washing dishes elsewhere).

rvforum.net/threads/about-to-move-in.147084/

Massachusetts is no doubt more gentle than North Dakota, but I think there's some good information there. I'll also add a warning about snow--I'm fortunate in that I don't know anything about snow in North Dakota. But if it's not the fluffy snow that Colorado gets in the winter, and more like the slushy heavy snow Colorado gets in the spring, it could wreak havoc on slide toppers, if you have them.

 

[rvlifer]

Watch out for your awnings too

 

[RV_Lee1]

This is still the best winter prep RV video

 

[CheapRV]

Hi Robert,

I would suggest using spare batteries and chargers as these tend to drain faster in cold weather. Also keep tire chains for icy conditions!

A shovel, ice melt, and sand is also handy to keep in your RV during winter. You'll also want to seal windows, doors, and the roof to minimize heat loss.

I hope this helps

 

[Steven L]

Sorry for the delay all, I have been busy with work. In response I would definitely love to be in an indoor RV park ha! What a shame to hear about the bubble wrap I thought the primary goal was to be a wind break, maybe I should supplement it with some foam boards? The power pole has a place for 50 and 30 so the heaters could be separated from the camper as far as draw from circuit I think…. There are several full timers in the park just need to talk to them but this has to be an achievable goal or no one would do it.

Keep the input coming!

I'd be interested in hearing an update on how you've been doing so far now that March 1st has come and past.

Also, an single RV panel with both 30A and 50A service ( and even those with a 20A GFCI circuit) are still normally powered with only a 60A breaker, often configured as a pair of 30A switched in dual. So trying to run the rig on one receptacle and other appliances on the other will still trip the circuit once you've overloaded it.

 

[Steven L]

This is still the best winter prep RV video

Funny how the presenter in this video makes zero mention of the actual reason for cracking windows when running a ventless portable LP heater inside an RV during the winter.

Sure it creates moisture by running it, but that is of minimum concern in comparison to the amount of carbon monoxide that will be inhaled if you don't allow for CONSIDERABLE fresh air to ingress and egress the space you're attempting to heat.

 

[Trivet]

Also, an single RV panel with both 30A and 50A service ( and even those with a 20A GFCI circuit) are still normally powered with only a 60A breaker, often configured as a pair of 30A switched in dual.

I disagree. In my experience, a 50-amp outlet on an RV pedestal is two 50-amp breakers tied together, not two 30-amp breakers tied together. "Fifty-amp service" is actually 100-amp service, with 50 amps on each of two legs. (While 30-amp service really is 30 amps total.)

 

[Steven L]

I disagree. In my experience, a 50-amp outlet on an RV pedestal is two 50-amp breakers tied together, not two 30-amp breakers tied together. "Fifty-amp service" is actually 100-amp service, with 50 amps on each of two legs. (While 30-amp service really is 30 amps total.)

You're correct. I was thinking of the 30A dryer/welding receptacles that were already installed in the sub-panel of the outbuilding that services the new RV panel.