Workhorse Chassis, electrical issue - Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37C

[jdcowboy]

I hope this the appropriate place to post this.  If not would someone please direct me to the correct location?  I am new to the RV world.  We just purchased a 2004 Pace Arrow 37C.  I have what a believe to be a very simple problem, but search as I may, cannot find the right place to resolve the issue.  The previous owner had the coach batteries out on charge; the positive cable ended up grounding out inside the step box, and killed the house power.  I am sure it popped a relay, or fuse.  I cannot find where the main house fuse is at.  Can someone direct me to the correct spot.  I assume it would be similar on any of the workhorse chassis.
To be clear, the control panel for the slides has no power, none of the lights in the coach work, the fans up front over the dash don't work, the radio does not even work.
Runs and drives just fine, heater controls work just fine.

I am hoping someone can help this inexperienced fool!

 

[thesameguy]

I don't know what I'm talking about, but if dropping house power cables caused a short, I would expect to look in the converter/inverter/charge controller or the generator. What I'm imagining is that whatever system keeps the batteries charged got shorted out. So, probably not a "main house fuse" per se, but rather a device has tripped its own power protection.

 

[jdcowboy]

That makes sense to me!  Any idea how I would find the inverter?

 

[John From Detroit]

You have several "Suspect" locations. First somewhere in your RV is a device called either a CONVERTER or an INVERTER/Charger. These will often have what are called "Reverse Polarity Fuses" on them. they are part of the sub system not part of the main fuse box though the converter may be directly behind the main fuse box.

This will stop you from having 12 volts in the RV when you are plugged in  but if you have fully charged batteries no problem.

Also if you find it make a note of the make and model and post here. Some really need upgrading.
(some do not)

next for fully charged batteries.. There should be a fuse or circuit breaker.. May look kind of strange but it will be near the battery in the positive line.

Final nit note: This is a "House system" problem.. Chassis makes no difference. but.. Good you posted it.. gives me some useful guidelines..

If you can put your Rig's "Vital Stats" in yoru signature file or profile

 

[garyb1st]

Not positive but don't believe the Pace Arrow came with an Inverter.  In our 2005, model 35G the converter is located under the refrigerator.  The breakers are located under the desk in the bedroom.  Hello-aviator has a 2004 Pace Arrow that is 37 feet long so maybe same model as yours.  He'll be able to help if your breakers are not where I think they might be.  Good luck.

 

[jdcowboy]

Thanks Gary, I will check those places.  My coach is at a friends house in storage at the moment.  I was supposed to bring it home today, but surprise we got 20+" of snow in the last 24 hrs here.
It would seem to me that there is a manual from Fleetwood that has the various locations of electrical panels (just like an auto manufacture would do) spelled out for the owner, am I wrong, if not how do I get one?
I know that the there is what may be the converter in the bathroom under the sink.  This location has a set of breaker panels, next to a fuse box!  None of the fuses in this location were larger than a 20 amp, so I am assuming it was not one of them, I checked those anyways, all appeared to be good.
There is a fuse block under the dash, these I believe would be for the driving components, just like in a regular automobile.
Under the hood is where it seems to get interesting, there are at least 2 fuse blocks one of them has battery terminals coming directly out the side of it.  This looked to me to be the likely spot, but I was unable to find anything amiss there.  There is a 2nd block that has several large fuses 30 amp and maybe a 50 amp.  The one that seemed to be labeled for the coach was good.  There is a 3 box that has a lid screwed onto it right next to the other fuse boxes, I have not messed with that one yet.  I may have to explore that one.  I also will look for any components in the bedroom and under the fridge.

One more question that I have been mulling over.  If I plug in with a power cable that should override the 12 volt system, so everything should work on 110 volts still correct, even though the 12 volt system is not functioning properly?  If it not it seems like that would indicate another issue (I am not sure what at this point) it just occurs to me that it would be worth doing once I have the ability to do so!

Thanks for all your interest in my issues here.

 

[Laura & Charles]

Our converter is on the curb side just aft of the entry steps. (Have to remove a panel to access it with slide out.) Breakers are in the bedroom behind their own cabinet door.  Shore power doesn?t ?override? anything. It powers the converter to charge the batteries. (Doubt you have an inverter but, if you do, shore power would override that.)  Does the generator work?  That would be the same as plugging into shore power.  I suspect the issue is related to the charge controller and is unrelated to anything 110 AC. Note: almost everything is 12 volts in the coach. Even if you have the fridge or water heater set to electric, the control boards for those are powered by 12 volts. About the only things that run on AC power without 12 volt present are the rooftop HVAC units and 110 outlets (and things that plug into those like TVs, microwave, coffee pot, etc.

 

[Heli_av8tor]

My coach DC fuses and shore power breakers are located in the same box, under the lavatory.

 

[garyb1st]

It would seem to me that there is a manual from Fleetwood that has the various locations of electrical panels (just like an auto manufacture would do) spelled out for the owner, am I wrong, if not how do I get one? 

I have the 2005 manual and it doesn't go into detail on wiring.  There is a Pace Arrow Owners Club that may be able to help.  Check out their link.  http://www.pacearrowclub.com

 

[garyb1st]

Here's a link to the Fleetwood site where you can find and download a 2004 manual.  Oddly when looking at the 2004 manual, there's a page showing a typical wiring diagram that I don't believe is in the 2005 manual.  https://www.fleetwoodrv.com/rv-owners-manuals

Keep us posted on your progress.

Good luck. 

 

[John From Detroit]

Ok the fuse boxes under the hood. ON a workhorse there is a box top dead center. this one has a pair of threaded terminals at the bottom (Once you pull the cover you will see it) this is CHASSIS MAIN. has relays for assorted things (the one on the bottom is I believe the starter pilot relay more on that in a bit) fuses for lights fuel pump. igintion and so on.> All "Vehicle" systems nothing for the house.

The one on the right over past the Brake Bell Crank is the "Intelletic Battery Control System" This is a "Mixed" box and has ignition/accessory and house circuits.  It may be where you will find a fuse. possibly a 5 amp. that is bad  This one has 3 battery leads into the bottom lab eled MAIN AUX and GEN if I'm not mistaken (Main is Chassis. Aux is the house BATTERY and GEN is the HOUSE itself).

If yor 12 volt fuses and 120 volt breakers are in the same box.. Make and model of the box please. (Your converter may be directly behind the fuse panel) but I'd expect to see some 30 amp fuses in that box if this is the case.. NOTE. Expect is not 100% sure.

 

[jdcowboy]

Am I correct in thinking the converter would have both breakers and fuses?  If that is the case my converter is certainly under the lavatory in the bathroom.  I checked all fuses there and everything was good.  It looks like the converter is model # WF-8914

Here is a picture of what I believe is the converter.

 

[jdcowboy]

Ok the fuse boxes under the hood. ON a workhorse there is a box top dead center. this one has a pair of threaded terminals at the bottom (Once you pull the cover you will see it) this is CHASSIS MAIN. has relays for assorted things (the one on the bottom is I believe the starter pilot relay more on that in a bit) fuses for lights fuel pump. igintion and so on.> All "Vehicle" systems nothing for the house.

The one on the right over past the Brake Bell Crank is the "Intelletic Battery Control System" This is a "Mixed" box and has ignition/accessory and house circuits.  It may be where you will find a fuse. possibly a 5 amp. that is bad  This one has 3 battery leads into the bottom labeled MAIN AUX and GEN if I'm not mistaken (Main is Chassis. Aux is the house BATTERY and GEN is the HOUSE itself).

I thought pictures may be helpful.  I will attach a photo of under the hood fuse blocks.  The large on has the battery terminals leading into it as mentioned in the quote.  I thought there was some reset switches in the bottom of the box, but alas they did not feel like they were tripped.
There are a ton of fuses that are anywhere from 5 to 20 in the block.  The top box that you can just barely see the bottom of has the large fuses in it.  They all look like they are good.
My question is, does anyone know what the box next to the large box is in the photo?  The cover screws on, I am suspicious it also is a fuse box of sorts.  The photo is rotated 90 degrees clockwise, sorry i could not get it to save correctly.
Ultimately, once the cold lets up I need to get out there with my test light and chase power.  I was hoping someone knew how these systems powered.

 

[jdcowboy]

Shore power doesn?t ?override? anything. It powers the converter to charge the batteries. (Doubt you have an inverter but, if you do, shore power would override that.)  Does the generator work?

Good information...Yes, my generator works.  Are you suggesting that I should try to operate the generator and see if the systems work under the generator?  I guess that makes sense that shore power would work thru the batteries, as those components are still 12 volt components so yeah they still would not work huh!  I better research the difference between and inverter and converter.  How do I know if I have an inverter?

 

[Heli_av8tor]

That's the same breaker panel I have. on the back side is a box about 5" cube. It is the transfer switch that detects and switches from shore to generator power.

I don't know if the converter was originally in the vicinity but mine is now under the washer/dryer.

An Inverter converts 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC. If any of your 120 outlets have power when you are not plugged into shore power and you are not running the genny then you have an inverter.

 

[jdcowboy]

That's the same breaker panel I have. on the back side is a box about 5" cube. It is the transfer switch that detects and switches from shore to generator power.

I don't know if the converter was originally in the vicinity but mine is now under the washer/dryer.

An Inverter converts 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC. If any of your 120 outlets have power when you are not plugged into shore power and you are not running the genny then you have an inverter.

Looks like you have the same Coach that I have, so I am guessing that if yours does not have an inverter mine would not either.  It seems like the converter or the transfer switch would not be the issue in this case.  My radio, backup camera, are out as well as the rest of the house.  It would seem the problem is up under the hood.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Your coach has an integrated load center (breaker box), 12v bus and converter charger. All three of those tings are packaged in the WFCO brand unit shown in your pix. The RV Custom Products Battery Control Center is a separate function with 12v charging and switching capability and some related fuses, but not strictly part of the converter/charger or load center.

An '04 Pace likely has a small inverter located in the entertainment center to power the TV/DVD satellite components when not on shore power. It would dedicated to that and not part of the general power system, nor would that inverter have a charger. Typically it would have a 300W capacity.

 

[John From Detroit]

Checking that is just a fuse/breaker/distribution panel. not the converter. 

 

[Heli_av8tor]

Mine doesn?t have an inverter in the entertainment area though it may have had a originally. Only the dash radio of the oem  entertainment center remains.

Gary is probably right in that the integrated load center housed the converter too originally but there is no evidence of that now in mine. And I?ve had it all apart.

With all you have out I?d be expecting a problem up front in the Battery Control Center.

Oh, welcome back Gary.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I've seen the '04 Pace with a standalone (deck mount) converter/charger, but they were always replacements. The early WFCO brand load centers had lousy reliability and often were rewired to add a deck mount converter charger to replace the integrated function.  A pal of mine replaced his twice in 4 years!