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Author Topic: Safe to leave gas on while driving?  (Read 3178 times)

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2017, 11:18:52 AM »
C-130 driver - back in the day.
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »
A call to Fleetwood and I got the answer: The refrig ice maker outlet is wired to the inverter. Their thinking is that with the inverter the ice maker will always be powered irrespective of the refrig power source. Ice will always be available even if the refrig is powered by propane, provided the inverter is on. The refrig power outlet is not powered by the inverter so it will auto go to propane when the campground power is removed.

We don't use the ice maker. So I simply removed the icemaker plug from the inverter powered outlet and replaced it with the refrig plug. I leave the inverter on all the time (except in storage) so the refrig is always powered. In the event we dry camp the refrig will still auto go to propane (provided the propane valve is on) if I turn the inverter off to save battery power.

My arriving at the campground checklist on item #9 is "open propane valve and purge air". My departing the campground checklist item #12 is to close the propane valve. Sorry about the overuse of checklists - I'm a retired airline pilot.

This works well for us, and a Merry Christmas to you to as well Bill.
Yes, I use the inverter /icemaker outlet to power my new residential refrigerator.
Works much better than the absorption/propane one.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2017, 04:46:14 AM »
My absorption fridge is 11 yo and so far so good. I dread the day I have to replace it. I'll also go with a residential one when the time comes.
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2017, 06:15:22 AM »
Yes, I use the inverter /icemaker outlet to power my new residential refrigerator.
Works much better than the absorption/propane one.
Bill
I have never used my inverter since I bought the coach 3 years ago but you are giving me ideas. MY fridge is still working ok but not as good as it did when we bought the coach so a residential may be in the picture if medical problems don't force me to sell it first.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 1

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2017, 06:57:45 AM »
Bill, the only time we use our inverter is while underway, though it is always on unless in storage. I have a silverleaf vehicle monitoring system that displays on a computer that is plugged into a inverter outlet. And of course the refrig is powered by the inverter while underway as discussed previously.

We will be dry camping next month for a couple of days so the inverter will get a work out. Looking forward to it. Hope you get your medical issues worked out.

Happy New Year!!
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2017, 10:02:40 AM »
I have never used my inverter since I bought the coach 3 years ago but you are giving me ideas. MY fridge is still working ok but not as good as it did when we bought the coach so a residential may be in the picture if medical problems don't force me to sell it first.

Bill
We always run the inverter while driving. It powers up a few electrical outlets allows us to charge our phones, computers etc and run a crock pot for dinner when we arrive at our campground for the night.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2017, 12:10:19 PM »
We always run the inverter while driving. It powers up a few electrical outlets allows us to charge our phones, computers etc and run a crock pot for dinner when we arrive at our campground for the night.

Okay, I give up.  I have never had an inverter in any of our many previous RVs so wasn't too familiar but now it is sounding downright convenient.  Next warmup run, I'll take along the test meter and see which outlets are powered by the inverter.  Like that crock pot idea.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 1

Larry N.

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2017, 12:19:01 PM »
I rarely turn my inverter off, thus fridge, clocks, etc. don't have interrupted power, unless I'm storing the coach away from shore power or it goes in for maintenance. Pretty much all the outlets are hooked through the inverter. If battery power is critical, I might turn it off while necessary, but (for me) that's rare.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL, Bounder, Beaver
  de N8GGG

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2017, 02:44:10 PM »
Quote
Like that crock pot idea.
We put the crockpot in the kitchen sink for stability. In our coach the outlets on the same side as the inverter are hot.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2017, 07:06:03 AM »
Is it safe to leave the propane on to power the fridge while driving to the campsite?

Thanksin advance

More info on this topic http://www.doityourselfrv.com/is-it-dangerous-to-run-an-rv-propane-refrigerator-while-driving-your-rv/

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 08:04:12 AM by timjet »
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2017, 10:18:13 AM »
I guess there are some people that would wear a life-jacket on a Cruise Ship.

All kinds of bad things could happen... ;)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:33:46 AM by TonyDtorch »

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2017, 11:24:55 AM »
A light bulb just came on as a result of this thread.  Now I know how I can run my oxygen concentrator while on the road instead of using up bottled oxygen.  THE INVERTER.  Concentrator is not a high power user but it does need 110 v so run a little tubing to needed place and I should be in business.  Will go looking for a used home concentrator - they are much cheaper than the portable models.
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 1

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2017, 12:56:11 PM »
More info on this topic http://www.doityourselfrv.com/is-it-dangerous-to-run-an-rv-propane-refrigerator-while-driving-your-rv/

One more bunch of un proven statements and false statement's about how unsafe it is to leave  the propane on.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2017, 01:01:57 PM »
A light bulb just came on as a result of this thread.  Now I know how I can run my oxygen concentrator while on the road instead of using up bottled oxygen.  THE INVERTER.  Concentrator is not a high power user but it does need 110 v so run a little tubing to needed place and I should be in business.  Will go looking for a used home concentrator - they are much cheaper than the portable models.
Bill, use a circuit detector, you should have a outlet in the bedroom that is powered by the inverter. Turn off shore/genarater power and see what outlets have power. I have on outlet and the rear tv in the beadroom. In front I have the front tv one outlet and the microwave and icemaker outlet.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

H5-Phil

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »
In 2 decades of towing TTers, we've never traveled with our propane tanks open.  The plus side for us is that the question of whether or not it's safe, is moot.
Phil & Karen with Crash, our 'guard' Dachshund
KE6HUL / KE6NYJ
2014 F-350 Diesel XLT. with Leer shell
2004 31' Alumascape TT

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2017, 06:35:17 AM »
In 2 decades of towing TTers, we've never traveled with our propane tanks open.  The plus side for us is that the question of whether or not it's safe, is moot.
Just as a funny, your post reminded me that for the first 3 years of RVing (it wasn't yet called that), we also used no propane on the road.  The fridge was an ICEBOX.......lol
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 1

JoelP

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2017, 02:22:46 PM »
We always travel with the refer running on propane.

Safety aside, isn't it likely that you will be well out of level much of the time while you are driving.  Won't that cause crystallization to occur in the system to degrade performance?
Joel from San Jose

2010 Itasca Suncruiser 37F
8.1L Chevy Workhorse with Banks PowerPack
2016 CMax Energi Hybrid dinghy

NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2017, 04:10:02 PM »
Safety aside, isn't it likely that you will be well out of level much of the time while you are driving.  Won't that cause crystallization to occur in the system to degrade performance?

That's not an issue while underway. Normal vehicle motion keeps the fluid agitated enough to prevent crystallization. And most roadways keep the fridge within the level limits the fridge manufacturers specify anyway, on all but the steepest grades.
Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox base plate

TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2018, 11:02:20 AM »
I love that article about the 'Dangers' of leaving the propane on.   ;D

If you blow a tire,  go off the road,  rollover,  brake the gas line,  it could explode !!

 after all that ...it may be better.    You go out with a bang. ;)



Or....you can leave the gas on...leave the fridge on....Slow down a bit ....and everything will be fine.   :))
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 11:29:56 AM by TonyDtorch »

Dreamsend

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2018, 07:29:32 AM »
Love the fact that so many are concerned with this as a safety issue, and obviously, that so many have thought about it.  If you'll allow, I'd like to throw some science at this issue for those who may be interested.   If I understand correctly, the concern is that an igniter spark in the refrigerator or the hot water heater will ignite gasoline/diesel vapors.  The short answer is yes, it could.  But look more closely at the conditions that MUST be present in the environment where the SPARK is for that to happen.  I'll use gasoline in my example, cause this one I know off the top of my head, having taught it to thousands of industrial employees so they can safely work with flammable materials in the course of their jobs.  BTW, I'm not trying to convince anyone to NOT turn off their sources of ignition in their rigs if that is their choice.

For a fire (a slow explosion) or an explosion (a fast fire) to occur, we all know you have to have oxygen, a fuel source in vapor form, and heat (spark, flame, catalytic converter, etc.).  Otherwise known as the fire triangle.  However, these three things also have to align perfectly in order for ignition to occur.  Oxygen is a no brainer in our example, and the heat source (igniter) is also obvious.  The trick is having the fuel vapor concentration within the FLAMMABLE LIMITS of gasoline, which is 3.5% to 7.5% concentration in air.  That is, the air at the spark must contain at least 3.5% gasoline vapor and no more than 7.5%.  Put another way, the air has to contain 35,000 to 75,000 parts per million (ppm) of gasoline vapor -- and to do so, this vapor is displacing the other components in air, i.e. oxygen (for life) and nitrogen mostly.   What are ppm-s?  Imagine a hotel with a thousand floors -- one tall building, and now imagine there are 1,000 rooms on each floor.  That hotel has 1 million rooms (or parts).  At least 35,000 of those rooms would have to be filled with gasoline vapor so that, if a spark were introduced, the air would ignite.  (a silly exercise perhaps!).

The odor threshold (when you can smell the vapor) for gasoline is 0.025 ppm for most people.  Waaaaayyyyy below 35,000 ppm.  I can honestly say, that if you and your rig pull into an environment with at least 35,000 ppm gasoline vapor in the air -- which would have to happen for that air to somehow also penetrate your reefer and the heater at the igniter -- you would immediately be unable to breath!  You would quickly asphyxiate unless moved to a normal oxygen environment, and a fire would be the least of your worries.   :)

BTW - the same logic applies to diesel fuel-- although I don't know the exact numbers, they are similar, -- diesel limits change a little depending on the mix, much more than the flammability limits of gasoline.

I'm certainly no mechanic who knows auto engines in and out, but to kinda back this up with what we've all observed, I wonder how we made it through years and years of gassing up millions of vehicles with spark plugs, when we all used to keep the engines running while fueling?  Safe?  Maybe not.  Were there fires, yes.  Were they frequent?  No.  Catalytic converters (reaching temps of 1,000 degrees F, which is way above the flashpoint of -40 degrees F for gasoline) in poor shape are much more likely to cause a gas station fire than running propane in an RV.  But even fires caused by catalytic converters are infrequent, because that magic mix of oxygen and fuel vapor has be be just right to ignite. Given all the air movement with breezes etc. creating the magic mix is NOT frequent nor sustainable.  Converters are why we turn off engines while fueling.  But I always wondered -- what about all the vehicles operating as they pull in and out and jockey for a pump?

The gas station fire in MO mentioned in this thread, where the exact cause remains uncertain, but is speculated to have been due to static electricity is another good example.  I would speculate that the fuel dispenser may not have been not properly grounded, and static electricity, the discharge of which is always a potential in the absence of proper grounding when two dissimilar substances rub against one another, (like gasoline flowing through a hose) discharged somewhere at or near the dispenser where the "magic" fuel vapor and oxygen ratio was present.   Someone else mentioned spills at gas stations -- once again, the environment in the immediate vicinity of a spill would still have to be the magic mix, so that in the presence of an ignition source, it would ignite.  That ignition source is highly, highly, unlikely to be your reefer or heater igniter.   I'm certain there are a few of you out there that played the game of throwing a lighted match into a container of gasoline to show-off to your friends.  Lucky you - your match missed encountering the "magic" environment, and was extinguished by the liquid gasoline, because as we all know, liquids don't burn, only vapors.

Is it possible that RV equipment igniters can cause a fire.  Yes, given that they ignite in the presence of the correct oxygen and fuel vapor mixture and that enough combustible materials are around to sustain the fire.  But is it probable to an extent that igniters must be turned off?  I'll offer an analogy.   Is it possible I could die within the next 5 minutes?  Yes, it is possible.   But based on current conditions and circumstances, is it not probable to the extent that I even need think about it.  A bit dramatic probably, but I couldn't come up with anything better.

Just my thoughts on the issue.  I don't plan to turn off sources of ignition in my TT while fueling, unless the equipment is malfunctioning for some reason.  I just don't think those ignition sources will be located in a "flammable" environment while I'm fueling. 


Linda

Linda with kitty Sarah
2017 Ford F250 Lariat aka Gypsy Rose

UTTransplant

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2018, 07:35:53 AM »
Thank you Linda for facts, not conjecture.
Pam and Kevin plus Lily the cat
2014 Outdoors RV Timber Ridge 240RKS
2015 Ram 2500 Diesel
Tiffin 37PA on order
http://toobusyforwork.com

Rene T

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2018, 09:04:57 AM »
Well said Linda.
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

HappyWanderer

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2018, 12:05:16 PM »
I'm not convinced. The fact remains that gasoline vapors being ignited at filling stations is a fairly frequent occurrence. Obviously, that means the correct conditions to support such ignition are also present.

Using spark plugs as a reference is not valid: there's a reason why the term "internal combustion" is used to describe an automobile engine.

And no, the same logic does not apply to diesel fuel. You can actually submerge a burning road flare in a bucket of diesel fuel without incident. I wouldn't want to try that with gasoline.

A filling station is not a controlled industrial environment, where vapor concentration is known or can be predicted. To knowingly introduce a possible ignition source into a potentially explosive atmosphere is nothing less than stupid.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2018, 04:19:11 PM »
I'm not convinced. The fact remains that gasoline vapors being ignited at filling stations is a fairly frequent occurrence.

"fairly frequent" ?     of the millions of gasoline fill-ups every hour all over the country and you hear about an explosion once or twice a year ??

What are the odds of getting hit by lightning ?    ???
 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 05:03:11 PM by TonyDtorch »

HappyWanderer

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2018, 06:07:17 PM »
I would call an average of 4,000 vehicle fires per year at filling stations to be a "fairly frequent" occurrence.

Certainly no one would consider someone lighting up a cigarette at a gas pump to be acceptable behavior. Why would a DSI in the same location be any different?
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2018, 06:53:02 PM »
4,000 vehicles is about 0.0015% of the ~255,000,000 cars on the road in the US. With about 45,000 new cars sold per day in the US, I'd call that a pretty insignificant number, and even more insignificant when we don't know the causes of those fires. Obviously they weren't all caused by RV'ers leaving the fridge on while refueling.
Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox base plate

TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2018, 07:14:41 PM »
I would call an average of 4,000 vehicle fires per year at filling stations to be a "fairly frequent" occurrence.

Certainly no one would consider someone lighting up a cigarette at a gas pump to be acceptable behavior. Why would a DSI in the same location be any different?

As a kid working a many different gas stations,  I remember 100's of people that would get out of their car with a lit cigarette while I was putting gas into it.   

We were instructed to wash all the service bays with gasoline every night at closing... and me and my friends all smoked back then.

but that was back in the metal dash no seatbelt days.... before stupidity was classified as an official disability.

Larry N.

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2018, 08:48:02 PM »
Quote
I would call an average of 4,000 vehicle fires per year at filling stations to be a "fairly frequent" occurrence.

There are many ways a car can catch fire that don't involve the same situation as an RV appliance. Break out those 4,000 into causes and perhaps you'll have something. There are LOTS of car fires every year (probably more than 4,000- I don't have figures) that are nowhere near a filling station, too.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL, Bounder, Beaver
  de N8GGG

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2018, 09:12:24 PM »
Add to that, my coach is diesel. I have never heard of a (proven) case of a coach catching fire while refueling because the propane was on.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

Old_Crow

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2018, 06:01:00 AM »
Not to mention that my 2 potential sources of ignition(w/h and fridge)are on the totally opposite side of the coach and about 20 feet down the side from the gas filler neck.  Now I do turn them off when filling propane, they're only like 5 feet from that tank.
Wally Crow
Retired 30 year ASE Master Auto Tech
Y2K Bounder 36S F53
'03 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

 

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