2008 Tiffin Allegro FRED 32LA

Marsha/CA said:

Ron, that was one question I was going to ask BNTorsney, if the Allison in the Fred has an "economy" mode?  We use ours a lot in the pusher.

Marsha~

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Sam uses the economy mode and makes sure I do too on the rare occassion I am driving.

According to Allison, the 'Economy mode' changes the shift point by 200 RPM. The Allison guy who works with many of the coach manufacturers told us it really doesn't make much difference in the overall fuel consumption. The main difference a driver will see is in accelerating from stop or very slow speed; He said that he gets lots of calls from Marathon Prevost owners because Marathon is his only customer that specifies Economy as the default mode. He ends up reprogramming the default mode for Marathon owners so the transmission doesn't change up so soon.

Marsha/CA said:

Ron, that was one question I was going to ask BNTorsney, if the Allison in the Fred has an "economy" mode?  We use ours a lot in the pusher.

Marsha~

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It is my modest opinion, that the economy button your talking about, is nothing more than a useless "gizmo" that does nothing but raise the price of the motorhome; Fuel economy starts with what is directly between your ears. I have stated before, that Tiffin did a great job of balancing features against costs. I don't need an economy "gizmo," I would rather do it myself, and I really appreciate this "bare-bones" shifter.

Matter of opinion.  We find it useful and woiuldn't want a rig without it.  Once again personal choices.

Ron said:

Matter of opinion.  We find it useful and woiuldn't want a rig without it.  Once again personal choices.

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I imagine that exactly why they offer it, "different strokes for different folks."

BNTorsney said:

I imagine that exactly why they offer it, "different strokes for different folks."

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If we all wanted the same thing and there were no choices it might just get kinda dull. ;D ;D ;D

I noticed a 2002 Newell had the Allison programed for economy mode startup also. There is no choice when buying a coach between single mode or dual mode. All Allison RV transmissions come with dual mode; economy and performance. Truck transmissions are usually programed to start in economy mode and I understand that Allison's early RV transmissions were also. I have been told that the RV companies felt that it was an easier sell to have the additional RPMs for the demo drives and had Allison program the tranny to start in performance mode. I use the economy mode exclusively (strongly recommended by Cummins for better fuel efficiency) and find it a bit of a pain to have to turn the economy mode on whenever starting. If and when I am back in an Allison shop, I plan on having them reprogram to start in economy mode.

Given the questionable improvement in fuel economy, we don't bother to engage economy mode.

In rolling hills, economy mode will keep the transmission from hunting between gears, which in turn will help keep the transmission temperature down.

Hm, in rolling hills I'd expect the transmission to hunt more in economy mode. But, since I'm not the driver of our coach, how would I know.? Maybe the Allison guy didn't know what he was talking about either  ???

The transmission will stay in the higher gear longer as the shift points are dropped by 200rpm in economy mode.

Tom said:

Maybe the Allison guy didn't know what he was talking about either  ???

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  Wouldn't be the first time bum info was given out at a seminar. ;D

FIFTH LOCAL TRIP


Today we completed of fifth local trip with the new motorhome. All went well except for one problem with the Atwood Leveleg System, at the beginning of the trip.
Atwood's instructions recommend "exercising" the unit when it's not going to be used for a while. Today, after bring the coach home from storage, I exercised the system as I had done many times in the past, without incident. This exercise consists of holding down "extend" and "all" keys together for a moment. All jacks extend until they reach the ground where they stop. Then "retract" and "all" is held down momentary and all jacks retract.
We are loaded and ready to leave, I start the engine and notice the red and green lights for the L/F jack are blinking. The Atwood instructions basically say to exercise the unit to clear this condition. When I try to extend the jacks nothing happens. When I tried to retract the jacks the problem became very apparent. All jack were up, but the L/F one didn't know it and was trying retract further; I shut the power off. I called Tiffin and was told the jack was bad and had to be replaced. I decided to leave on the trip, that's when the problem shows up again. When I put the coach in gear, the L/F jack attempted to retract again. This is a built in safety, the Atwood computer sensed (falsely) and extended jack, the motorhome in gear, and tried to retract the jack.
From installing the dinghy "brake on light" in this thread, I knew where the fuse for this circuit was; at least that what I thought I knew. Freightliner told me it was on the engine side of the firewall, the middle of three fuse boxes. When I pulled that fuse and the same problem happened, I knew I was in for a longer delay. After a couple more calls to Freightliner, I finally found someone who knew where the fuse was.
There are two fuse boxes located on the left side of the steering column, near the floor, between the brake pedal and emergency foot brake. In the open fuse box, the green 30 Amp fuse is the one. If you ask a Freightliner dealer, he will tell you this is the fuse for the optional Electric Bake Controller, the circuit Tiffin used for the Atwood Leveleg System.
Live and Learn!!

BNTorsney said:

FIFTH LOCAL TRIP..................two fuse boxes located on the left side of the steering column, near the floor, between the brake pedal and emergency foot brake. In the open fuse box, the green 30 Amp fuse is the one. If you ask a Freightliner dealer, he will tell you this is the fuse for the optional Electric Bake Controller, the circuit Tiffin used for the Atwood Leveleg System.
Live and Learn!!

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I found out that this 30 AMP fuse ALSO supplies the ignition. If you disconnect it as I originally stated, you will not be able to start the coach.Therefore, I had to disconnect the Electric Brake Controller harness from the Leveling system, to disable the defective jack.

REPLACING ATWOOD LEVELEG L/F JACK

With all of the new RV's we have owned, getting something repaired under warranty was never easy. The selling dealer, Lazy Days in Seffner, FL, was the most offensive. They didn't want any part of it, they never returned any calls. The Tiffin factory in Alabama would replace it anytime. If they were a little closer I might have taken it to them. "If you want anything done, do it yourself!" After I proved to the Atwood factory that the jack was indeed bad, they agreed to send me a free replacement. I have attached ten photos.

Sorry, but I have a real problem with people doing their own warranty work and letting the dealers and equipment manufacturers get away with murder. I don't tolerate sluff-offs from these guys. If you bought your RV from Lazydays, they should do the warranty work but Tiffin should authorize warranty work at any dealer. This does not speak well for either Lazydays or Tiffin, both of whom I have heard nothing but praise. The RV market is very tight and getting tighter. With a depressed market, competition will be stiffer. If they want to survive, they'll have to treat customers better.

GREED COUPLED WITH MADE IN CHINA

After being told by two experts, Tiffin & Atwoodmobile, that my jack was bad I decided to do it myself.  I received a new 66280 Atwood, single-screw, 7.5K leveler via UPS. I installed it, programmed it according to the instructions, and was surprised when it wouldn't shut off; exactly like the one it just replaced. Is this new one defective, or is it something else? This happened on Saturday, both companies are closed for the weekend. I sent an email inquiry to Tiffin and a copy to Atwoodmobile, when I resolve this I will post my findings. While talking with Atwoodmobile, I inquired about the price of the jack, if it weren't covered by warranty. I was asked if I was sitting down before I was told $860.00.
I have attached 6 photos to this reply. Of the six, the third photo (4) is for the seniors - stand the jack upright and use an electric drill, to raise the bracket to align it's holes with the ones in the frame.

BruceinFL said:

Sorry, but I have a real problem with people doing their own warranty work and letting the dealers and equipment manufacturers get away with murder. I don't tolerate sluff-offs from these guys. If you bought your RV from Lazydays, they should do the warranty work but Tiffin should authorize warranty work at any dealer. This does not speak well for either Lazydays or Tiffin, both of whom I have heard nothing but praise. The RV market is very tight and getting tighter. With a depressed market, competition will be stiffer. If they want to survive, they'll have to treat customers better.

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Are you an attorney? I agree with almost everything you write. The one big benefit you overlook, for a do it yourself-ER like me, is the invaluable education I receive on this leveling system; something that might benefit me sometime down the road.
In my April 23 reply, I stated in part that "I proved to the Atwood Factory" that the jack was bad. The Atwood tech was feeding me specific things to check, it was his opinion, as well as Tiffin's, that the jack was the problem; I was mostly listening and learning. When I am done fixing this system, I will know everything there is to know about it. I will be able to trouble shoot the system before any new parts are ordered. I have had a suspicion all along that the problem is the microprocessor. I didn't yet have the knowledge to prove it though; I certainly wasn't going to do anything on my own that would jeopardize Atwood's warranty. Time will tell, I will get to the bottom of this and I'm enjoying the process.

Bruce, Don't know if you've seen THIS ADDITIONAL troubleshooting info. If all else fails, you might want to rig a pair of jumper cables so you can electrically swap two of the jacks. If it's a bad control board or wiring, the problem will occur on the other (swapped) jack. If you do that, I would suggest running both jacks down a few inches with the drill to give yourself some 'working' room before trying it.

Karl said:

Bruce, Don't know if you've seen THIS ADDITIONAL troubleshooting info. If all else fails, you might want to rig a pair of jumper cables so you can electrically swap two of the jacks. If it's a bad control board or wiring, the problem will occur on the other (swapped) jack. If you do that, I would suggest running both jacks down a few inches with the drill to give yourself some 'working' room before trying it.

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Thank you, I have that trouble shooting information in my Atwood papers. The system is fairly simple, it consists of a control board (microprocessor), 4 jacks, the engine batteries, wiring harnesses and a control panel. The control board (microprocessor) is attached to the system by four plugs and two battery cables. Of the two small plugs, one connects to the control panel keypad. The other connects to the LED indicators and supplies safety information to the microprocessor (transmission in neutral, engine running, etc). The two large plugs with heavy gauge wire are connected to the jacks, 4 wires per plug. One plug feeds the two front jacks and the other the two rear. I was hoping the two plugs were interchangeable, but a key-way prevents swapping. It would have been too easy, just reverse the plugs, if it's the microprocessor, the problem jack would move to the rear. Sometimes I think the engineers that design these systems, don't give any thought at all to trouble shooting procedures.
If you viewed some of my posted photos, the jumper cables are too large for the tight places they would have to go.  Since my initial problem with this system, I have learned a lot about it. I am confident, armed with what I already know, coupled with one more conversation with the Atwood tech, and I find an easy way to prove what is bad. This weekend, I left the Atwood tech a voice mail and email, all I need now is patience - biased on my experiences with this system, he is probably a very busy man.