Self contained electrical outlets

Has anyone ever replaced the self contained receptacles in your RV and if so is there a special tool or a trick to getting the wires into those things?  We are trying to push them in with a screwdriver or a wire stripper and it is not working well.

Maybe someone here will have an understanding of just what you are referring to, but I certainly don't.  Can you provide photos or a more detailed description of your problem? 

The inside of the self contained outlet have small slots that you lay the wires across and puch them into place for the connection.  Problem is pushing the wires into the small slots.  They do nto want to go in easily and I thought maybe there was a special tool you had to use or an idea on how to improvise.

I'm not sure of the access but on others I have used long nosed pliers.

Would I have this type outlet in my bounder, ya think?  I'll have to look.

I just replaced them with normal outlets whenever I had to deal with one.  Outlets are cheap.  Fires are not.

Joel

I second what joelmyer said. I can't believe they're allowed to use that junk in RV's.

Me too!  Regular outlets are much easier and available at about any hardware store. 

I've replaced a few with regular outlets, but sometimes only that type will fit due to depth limitations.  Like you, I use a screwdriver or the end of  apiece of metal bar to push the wire down into the groove's teeth.  Not as easy as it looks, but it seems to work ok if you get it all the way down in.  If the wire is scarred from removing it from the teeth in the groove, strip back to a clean section and try again.

Use needle nose to remove the wire from the groove.

I also agree and with many years of changing them, the one with screws hold alot tighter and longer. The push in unit are just quicker!!

I have never found one that I had a problem with but should I it would be replaced.

The push in unit are just quicker!!

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Just to be clear, I believe we are talking about a type of outlet where the wires lie in a flat groove that has ridged edges that grip the wire, not the type where the wire pushes into a hole and held by spring tension.  Believe me, nothing is going to shake a wire loose from those teethed grooves!

RV Roamer said:

Just to be clear, I believe we are talking about a type of outlet where the wires lie in a flat groove that has ridged edges that grip the wire, not the type where the wire pushes into a hole and held by spring tension.  Believe me, nothing is going to shake a wire loose from those teethed grooves!

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Only if installed properly.

Gary, my mistake thanks I was thinking of the other type.

What's strange is that the typical RV type electrical outlet - and a piece of junk it is too - is not an approved or listed connection device in CA.  Nevertheless the RV manufacturers are permitted to install them if the coach is manufactured in another State.  I'm sure other States have similar standards and requirements that these devices do not meet.  Does anyone have any idea what the rationale is for using them, versus the more common or standard household device?  I have only ever seen them used on RVs.  I'm sure it's not a cost factor when tens of millions of the  more common devices are manufactered.

Incidentally, when (if) changing out your RV receptacle make sure you get the correct size,  rated 15 amp or 20 amp  for the appropriate gauge wiring.  A #12 gauge wire may not push directly into a 15 amp device, which is intended for #14 wire.    #14 wire is typically used in general household lighting circuits and #12 used for carrying heavier loads.  Usually a receptacle rated 15 and 20 amp will have screws and push slots to facilitate wiring of either gauge.

BT

Interesting Buddy,and I share your opinion of the standard RV outlet.

Paragraph 2: Think about the connection between the wire and the outlet when using the push in hole.. one or perhaps two knife edged copper plated springs, If you have .01 square inch of contact I'd be surprised

Now think about 1/2 inch wire wrapped around a screw,  both sides, full contact, properly tightened with perhaps a drop of locktite blue to make sure the screw stays tight.. How much contact area there.  How much BETTER will that connection be?

I replaced one of those in the Airstream Motorhome we had prior to the current MH.  I used a conventional outlet purchased at Home Depot.  The original MH outlet was permanently connected to the face plate, and two screws secured the whole thing to the wall.  This arrangement would reduce installation time, eliminate the need for a box, and they are a bit thinner than a conventional box.  Additionally, by the wire coming from the side and connecting without bends, less depth is required.

I notice that some MH manufactures use an attractive wood block as a spacer, obviously to overcome the problem of the thin wall, and to provide a more secure installation. 

George beat me to the explanation - the "self contained" outlets are much easier/quicker to install.

There are lots of things that are permitted in one type of construction that may not be allowable in another. In particular, new residential construction has more than a few requirements that do not apply to Manufactured Homes, Recreational Vehicles, Park Models, "Farm" construction or Business/commercial offices and plants. In general, residential electrical code is more idiot proof and child proof.  I'll not try to justify the differences, but you can see them readily if you peruse the National Electrical Code.

Many localities have adopted more restrictive building codes for certain things, mostly residential & office construction. For example, more than a few do not permit the use of the spring clamps holes on the back of the standard outlet - only the screw connections. And many now require "Arc Fault" breakers, at least for bedroom circuits.  However, they seldom mess with the other parts of the code because they don't have the time or expertise to mess with it.  RVs, for example, are type-approved at the national and state code approval levels and cities and counties simply don't bother to get involved because it is a very minor part of their world.

Roamer
The issue with manufactured homes is that they must meet a minimal and nationally adopted  standard of construction.  Now when they are set in place - assuming the home is manufactured in one State and positioned in another, those minimal standards must be brought in line with and meet (or exceed) the current local and State building codes. A local building inspector will issue a variety of permits (foundation/plumbing/waste/electrical etc.) before the manufactured home is fit for habitation.  Park models, MHs and RV's fall under very different regulation which have little or nothing to do with building codes, with very little oversight.  A Park Model MH requires no such inspection or approval before occupation, other than  permit(s)  for the slab, plumbing and electrical connection where it will be positioned.  I'm very familiar with NEC,  Uniform Plumbing, AGA and other building and construction codes.

Nevertheless, for ease of application and perhaps cost, MH manufacturers use these devices, which may not meet a minimal safety test if used in stick built homes.  Nor, in my experience are they used in manufactured homes.    If CA has  stricter requirement(s) due to vibration from possible earthquakes, and these particular devices do not meet it, it would  behoove the MH manufacturers to change (upgrade) their standards.  Seems to me that the vibration in a MH rolling down the road is significantly greater, by the second, than a very occasional 4 or greater quake.  However, the real concern is not during motion, when only converted 12v power may be supplied but when connected to shore with full alternating current.

Certainly these devices are slimmer, self contained and  typically not installed inside an NEC approved box, but that doesn't make them safe, just more convenient for the manufacturer.  Arc-Fault breakers (AFCI) which is an NEC requirement since 2002 in new construction,  are not designed to eliminate shock hazards but to provide protection against fire (caused by arcing) - that's all the more reason why such a device(s) should be installed in a MH.  I doubt they will - not until a catastrophic incident involving loss of life and the ensuing law suit.  It's because of this lack of oversight that MH manufacturers 'get away with' shoddy installation and application which, in many States would not pass a litmus test.

I guess I answered my own question...

BT

 

I'll grant that the RV construction codes are no where near as extensive (restrictive?) as site built homes or even manufactured homes, but they do have a set of national standards and they do conform to the standards that apply.  All 50 states have adopted those standards and thus allow conforming RVs to be sold in their state. By definition that means the states have approved those standards. So while I will agree they are a built to a lesser standard in some ways, but they cannot be termed "sub-standard", since they meet the applicable standards.

I haven't seen any reports or evidence that the type of electrical outlet being discussed is responsible for numerous electrical fires or even for loss of power.  I might add that the same cannot be said for the spring type push in connections that ARE approved for residential use.