Empty black tank

I was just wondering if any long term boondockers dump their black tank in pit toilets when they get full and HAVE to dump. I have heard of people doing so, just wondering if anyone has done it and if there are any ramifications of doing so.

When I go out this summer on extended stays in no mans land 100+ miles from a dump site, I sure the hell don't want to waist a tank+ of gas and a days trip just to dump if I can dump without issue in a pit toilet.

Thoughts ?

If it really is a pit or vault toilet, all you are doing is pushing off your problem on somebody else, since the pit/vault is going to have to be pumped out all that much sooner. And I suspect it would be against park regulations most anywhere you went.

Now if the toilet has its own septic tank system, the impact is not as bad. Still surely against regs, though.
The short answer is: A good citizen wouldn't do it.

Like Gary said a good citizen would not dump into a pit toilet.  If there are pit toilets available one could extend their BWT capacity by using the pit toilet.

Besides the citizenship issue, you have the problem of pumping sewage uphiill.  Most pit johns I have seen have the seat well above the drain valves of most trailers. 

The most reasonable solution is a few blue wheeled tanks to use to haul the sewage to the nearest dump station with the tow vehicle.   

Here is a little different take. I will probably get into trouble about this. Let me know....

  If your are in the middle of nowhere, out in the sticks, the woods etc., no homes anywhere, what is wrong with pulling over at a roadside, run your hose into the woods and dump. The trees would probably/will benefit from the nutrients. Bears and other critters do it all the time. Are we, humans, so toxic? Or a are we just too politically correct. I know that has been done a million times by Rv'rs in the past. Who, what is being hurt.

  Not trying to raise a stink here  , just to state a common sense approach. Don't try this in a Wally parking lot.

Give it a thought for a situation like outlined in the previous post.

  So far I am not guilty, please do not sic the cops on me.

carson FL

RV Roamer said:

If it really is a pit or vault toilet, all you are doing is pushing off your problem on somebody else, since the pit/vault is going to have to be pumped out all that much sooner. And I suspect it would be against park regulations most anywhere you went.

Now if the toilet has its own septic tank system, the impact is not as bad. Still surely against regs, though.
The short answer is: A good citizen wouldn't do it.

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Yes Gary in a sense you are pushing your problem off on someone else.  BUT if you are staying in that camp area for an extended period of time and used your own toilet and then dumped it in the pit instead of just using the pit to beginwith then what is the difference ? 

Most everywhere we travel to dump the BWT onto the ground is against the law.  Besides that I feel it would be very rude giving no consideration to whoever might be in the area after the one that would dump their tanks on the ground.  Just not the thing to do.

Some 40 gallons of raw stinking, infectious blackwater sewage dumped in the middle of the wilderness is a crime in most any civilized area in the world.  If the area is attrative to one party, it will probably attract others.  It would not take much of that sort of behavior to convert the area into a literal cess pool.

Stephan_K said:

Yes Gary in a sense you are pushing your problem off on someone else.  BUT if you are staying in that camp area for an extended period of time and used your own toilet and then dumped it in the pit instead of just using the pit to beginwith then what is the difference ? 

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The difference is the mess you will make dumping some 40 gallons all at once.  Kind of tough on the next poor soul to use the facility.

OP is on 2 other forums(that I have been reading) besides this one still looking for a yes answer -- betcha the squirrels/gophers are gonna get it.

maddog348 said:

OP is on 2 other forums(that I have been reading) besides this one still looking for a yes answer -- betcha the squirrels/gophers are gonna get it.

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Yes I am on other boards just as you...They are good ones with decent traffic too.  Not looking for a yes answer, just looking for input as it seems nobody has really considered it much less discussed it.  It seems that everyone has the "god no don't do that" outlook without even considering what is actually being done.

Squirrels and gophers get it... maybe you might consider it but not me !  I have morals...

I'm sorry Carl but I fail to see "the mess that will be made" that you mention.  What's it matter how and when 25 gallons or so (my tank is only 30 gal) of crap gets into a sealed vault toilet ?  Whether it be over 2 weeks or over 20 minutes... As a matter of fact by using a macerator pump to dispose the waist in the vault instead of doing your business into it directly, one would be doing the vault a favor !  Ground up solids are much better then non ground... especially when they are being emptied !

Am I misunderstanding something ?  If my research is correct most all Gov maintained vaults are pumped out by septic services.  It's 6 one way and half a dozen the other no matter how you look at it.  There is virtually no difference in how much waist is being added to the vault.  Just the manner in which it is being added.

I can see the morality of the situation which seems to loom about, don't want to look like cousin Eddie and all emptying your tank but if done cleanly and properly... I don't see issues.

let me put it another way.  Would you consider dumping your tank the ways you mentioned if you knew a ranger,  law officer, or other RVers were watching?  Like has been said before just not a good thing to do.

let me put it another way.

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Ron, whom are you addressing this to?

  Maybe there is room for discussion here, pro and con.

If your are in the middle of nowhere, out in the sticks, the woods etc., no homes anywhere, what is wrong with pulling over at a roadside, run your hose into the woods and dump.

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Fifty years ago, you could dip your hat into a clear running mountain stream and take a drink without worrying too much about infectious disease.   Now you can't.

Why?

Because too many people saw nothing wrong with hiking out into the wilderness and taking a dump alongside the trail (near that stream) without using the proper precautions to keep the waterway clean.  Now virtually every waterway in the US is contaminated with the giardia virus.

Dumping 20, 30 or 40 gallons of poop alongside the road is no different, except it takes longer to dissipate.   If you got there, you're really not "in the middle of nowhere".  What's to stop someone else from coming along in an hour or two, or tomorrow, or maybe next week?

Most vault toilets have a relatively high concentration of solids to liquid, which accelerates the composting process.  Dumping wet sewage into the pit (it has to be a slurry or it won't move to the Macerator) will leave a stinky, runny mess that will probably leave the toilet unusable until the excess moisture evaporates.  How long do you think it takes 10 or 20 gallons of excess water to evaporate from a sealed, below grade pit?  And if you've used one of the "odor-reducing" formaldehyde (or other -aldehyde) based tank chemicals you can probably kiss off that toilet until it's pumped clean.

Don't do it.  It really is that simple.

Ron said:

let me put it another way.  Would you consider dumping your tank the ways you mentioned if you knew a ranger,  law officer, or other RVers were watching?  Like has been said before just not a good thing to do.

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If I stayed in a camp area for a significant amount of time and was leaving and needed to dump I wouldn't have issue with it.  I'd explain it to anyone around, even law enforcement like I did here.  Bottom line is it was going to end up there anyhow !  How about those who have portable potties and dump them before they leave ?  Same scenario... Your allowed to crap in it directly but don't dare crap in a bucket or other container and dispose of it in there right ?

Now to be rollin down the road and pull into one just to dump... That's not right and I have a moral issues with that !

I'm surprised there isn't any rules of use posted somewhere for Gov vault toilets... at least I haven't been able to find any on the matter I should say.

The difference between emptying a porta-potty that has seen, at the most, a couple of uses versus dumping 30 gallons of RV sludge into a pit should be obvious.

I for one would not even consider such an act.  Also I know a few folks that if they were to see anybody dumping illegally they would report them and include photos.

Lou Schneider said:

Most vault toilets have a relatively high concentration of solids to liquid, which accelerates the composting process.  Dumping wet sewage into the pit (it has to be a slurry or it won't move to the Macerator) will leave a stinky, runny mess that will probably leave the toilet unusable until the excess moisture evaporates.  How long do you think it takes 10 or 20 gallons of excess water to evaporate from a sealed, below grade pit?  And if you've used one of the "odor-reducing" formaldehyde (or other -aldehyde) based tank chemicals you can probably kiss off that toilet until it's pumped clean.

Don't do it.  It really is that simple.

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Ya... I'm aware the tank additives would make it a no no.  Wouldn't think about doing it with them in the tank.  We don't use them anyway... don't want that crap (no pun intended  ) in my septic system.  Not so sure a few gallons of moisture in a 500- 1000 gallon vault would make a difference either but you bring up something to think about and research.  In the West, that moisture wouldn't last long !  With the vent system and super dry air... moisture would be gone in half a day if conditions were right.  A day or two otherwise IMO and wouldn't affect the process of the tank.  

Last one I sat on last hunting season had a draft that would blow you away... it was 10 below too ! That draft alone would take care of a few gallons of moisture right quick.

Lou Schneider said:

The difference between emptying a porta-potty that has seen, at the most, a couple of uses versus dumping 30 gallons of RV sludge into a pit should be obvious.

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And the obvious difference in dumping your porta potty every day for 2 weeks over dumping the same crap collected in your tank is what exactly ?  The crap in the bucket is the same crap in your tank...

Anybody find a link to vault toilet rules and uses ?

In response to the initial question, I'd hazard a guess that the vault has limited processing capacity, and hitting it all at once would not be helpful to the system.  If it has to be pumped out say every other Friday and you dump on Thursday night then maybe that is fine, but if you're hitting it with 45 gallons of cr@p when it is not part of the maintenance schedule then you may throw the schedule off.  And if you don't know the schedule and capacity of the system you'd likely overwhelm it.

As far as dumping the tanks in the woods or in a remote spot, maybe take a hand shovel and crap in random areas, then burying your scat on an as-needed basis?  Many animals do bury their waste unless there is a social or other reason for not doing so.  I suspect that, socially, humans are not interested in identifying their neighbors' location by verifying the nature of scat deposits.  Personally I'd be quite ticked/irritated if I happened upon someone's dump site with TP wads and other crap piled up in one spot as I hiked along.  It is unclean and leads to serious diseases in many parts of the world to have such unsanitary conditions.

So the indignation you may feel is probably more of a level of disgust with such a volume-dumping approach as opposed to any self-righteousness.  Just my two cents...

Of course, the idea of dumping your tanks in a "natural" setting vs. a tank is debatable to some, but from a cultural perspective I personally believe that someone else's scat is not something that I am interested in encountering, much less contact with my own.  If I have NO other choice maybe I'd choose to dump tanks in a vault, however that would have to be the last option.  I'd personally go with the camp-shovel approach and save my tanks for emergency use only.  Then I can probably justify a trip to a designated dumping facility.

The linked opinion does not match my own, but if one is interested in discussing or researching the relative merits/demerits it is a starting point.

Some debate