2500 or 3500 dually?

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Surferboy

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Oct 2, 2007
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My wife and I are looking to upgrade from a 31.5'TT that we are currently towing with a Nissan Titan Longbed, to a 36' Prairie Schooner or a 36' Carriage Cameo.  The reviews of both seem to be good.  What I am wondering is, do I really need the Chevy 3500? The TV will be my daily driver to work, and would rather have the 3/4 ton, but will do what's necessary to pull the 5er.  We travel with my job, cross country, so we are full timers, and travel through everything from The Rockies to The Adirondacks to Florida's beaches.  We need some good advice!
Thanks in advance!
CB
 
Compare the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the trailers to the tow rating of the trucks.  For a diesel deduct a 10% safety factor from the tow rating.  For a gasser deduct 20%.  With those big 5ers, I suspect you will find the 3500 is a minimum tow vehicle.  Especially as the pin weight of the trailer is compared with the rear axle weight rating of the trucks.  You may even find yourself looking at the Ford F-450s or bigger.  It all depends on that GVWR.
 
Typically the 3/4 ton and one ton have the same towing capacity, but the 3/4 ton can carry less pin/tongue weight because the rear axle capacity is lower. I suspect you will need every ounce of rear axle GAWR you can get to haul a 36 footer. Might even need that F450 or C4500 that Carl mentioned.

Check the weights and make your own decision. You can review the official Chevy towing numbers HERE - just click the "Trailering" tab to see the specs on each model.
 
Carl knows from which he speaks and gives excellent advise about towing and weight capacities.  To do otherwise is just not a good idea.
 
Last season I towed my 38 FT copper canyon 5th wheel with a dodge 3500 single wheel with ease.  Due to the diesel prices and not using the dodge, I sold it and purchased a chevy 2500 HD 6.0 L gaser .  It does not handle the trailer as easily as the dodge did but it tows it nicely.  Go visit a campground and you will notice about 80% of the tow vehicles are 2500 or F-250 series towing most of the rigs.  The others are 3500 dual wheel trucks.  Very rarely will you ever see someone towing with a 450 or 4500 series vehicle unless you are towing horse trailers cross country every day of the week.  It is just plain overkill and a waste of money
 
I'd like to restate what has already been hinted at.  One ton trucks are available as single rear wheel.  We tow our 5'er with a GVWR of 11,780# and a pin weight of 1,450# easily with our SWR F-350.

That said, however, both of the 5'ers you mentioned are above the GVWR of our '05.  I think I saw the Prairie Schooner at a GVWR of around 16,000# and a pin weight of 2,520#.  My '05 is rated at 15,500 for a GVWR of a fifth-wheel (90% of which is 13,950#).  The Carriage Cameo looked a little lighter at around 15,000# GVWR, but still too much for my SRW.  A 4x2 dually might do it, but if my whole world (i.e., the lives of my wife, kid, and dog) depended on what I truck I bought, I'd start looking seriously at F-450s.

-Dave
 
the 08 Ford F450's (witht he new 6.4) are lemons - and you can only haul with it if you can keep it out of the repair shop.
I'd avoid that one.
 
Campdiva has no idea about TV's with her statement.The only problem's with Ford's 6.4 is that it doesn't get great mileage but it will out tow about anything out there in it's class.Having said that be advised the Carriage is a very heavy trailer and you will need the 350/3500 or 1 ton to tow that 5'ver and still you'll be close to your limit.Carriage under estimates there weight's in an effert to sell more trailers.Do your research on your own taking all factors into acount.
 
Ninebell, You are completely off the mark for Carriage and weight.  I have been to the factory, and the last step before leaving is the scale and the weight tag.  The unit, with all added options rolls onto a scale.  The weight is then printed, then that sheet is put in the cabinet.  Granted, this is without water and propane, but that is stated along with the additional weights for full tanks. 

Other mfg's publish base weight with a caveat that it does not include options. 

Oh, the comment about checking the CG's for trucks.  Just because they do it does not mean it will be safe.  You are fulltiming, crossing the country, get the right truck, when you get to a place, rent a small car for short times, buy a beater car for longer assignments, sell it when ready to leave.

 
I agree with the 3500 dually group.  With a rig that size I might even consider a Volvo conversion.  35K-50K will ge a pretty nice rig.  Take a look at this site Volvo Conversion
 
Folks,

Matching trailer to tow vehicle is a matter of numbers, not opinion.   Manufacturers give tow ratings in pounds for their vehicles in their literature.  Trailer Life magazine gives a compilation of those ratings going back a number of years and makes them available on its website www.trailerlife.com in their Tech section.  With a truck the first thing you should do it get its rating.

We like to discount tow ratings by a 10% safety factor to allow for truck loading beyond the standard driver + fluids, for state of tune, for effects of aging, and general caution.  That applies to all engine types and locations.  Simply multiply the listed tow rating by 0.9 to get your final rating.

However, normally aspirated internal combustion engines operated in the mountain or Pacific west need a higher, 20% safety factor.  Such engines lose 3% of their rated horsepower for each 1,000 feet above sea level.   That means that at Flagstaff, AZ or on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, a truck would have lost 21% of its rated HP.  To make matters worse, folks towing in the west routine encounter 6-9% grades 5-10 miles long even on Interstate Highways:  Grapevine Pass on I-5, and Cajon Pass on I-15 near LA;  Lookout Pass on I-90 in Idaho; Donner Pass on I-80 in the Sierra; and Siskyou Pass on I-5 on the CA-OR border.   If you would ever tow in the west with a gasoline engine, multiply the tow rating by 0.8 to get your final rating.   Turbo diesels do not take this hit since being supercharged, they only take a 1% hit per thousand feet.  Stick with 10% for them. 

For the trailer end of the equation, use the manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating, GVWR.   It can be found on every trailer made in the past 15 or so years on the DOT plate affixed on the left sidewall near the front.   Unlike the unladen, dry weight, an approximation at best, it is a real number required by the Feds and represents the maximum weight to which the trailer should be loaded.  Some mfr literature lists it in terms of unladen weight + carrying capacity.  Just add the two to give you GVWR. 

You should never tow a trailer which has a GVWR greater than your truck's properly discounted tow rating. 

It is just that simple.   

You can kid yourself along that your F-150 can pull that 15,000 lb fiver.  Maybe you can on the flat and easy.   However, you are compromising operating life, stability and emergency handling.   Go back the start of this section and view the two video horror stories there.  Each of those two poor souls probably thought he was pulling his load just fine...until the magic moment arrived.

My motto on the matter of tow ratings is that it is like shooting angry, charging grizzly bears -- there is no such thing as overkill, but there sure as hell is such a thing as underkill.   ;D


 
Pancakebill
I have owned Carriage's and I speak from experience not numbers or factory scales.I also have been to the factory and have had nothing but trouble with there customer service that's one reason I no longer own a Carriage.
Ninebell
 

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