5th wheel GVWR Question -

[pawn]

Good morning all,

We're looking at getting a 5th wheel, our TV has a towing capacity of 12,500 pounds, so I understand the trailers GVWR needs to be less than the 12,500.

Now I'm looking at a bunch of 5th wheels, some have an unladen weight of around 10,000 + 1800 max load for 11,800 GVWR, and then others, like the Coachman Northridge 290RKD (http://coachmenrv.com/products/model/specs/?ProductID=3&SeriesID=58&Product=Fifth%20Wheels&Series=North%20Ridge)  have an unladen weight of 8700 lbs and a GVWR of 14,000lbs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 5,300 lbs available weight for junk, as opposed to 1800.  According to the hard rule, I'd be ok with the 10,000 unladen 5th but not the 8,700 unladen 5th. 

What does one get with the Coachman?  A sturdier chassis and axles?  It's a smaller 5th - something like 3-4' shorter.    Can anyone help illuminate me as to why I should not buy the 8,700 5th and just make darn sure I don't load over 3,800 pounds of crap into it?

The other one I'm looking at is a Keystone Sydney 325 FRE  (http://keystone-sydney.com/index.php?page=specs).    It just smacks to me of them making an overall heavier trailer with more bells and whistles (like 4 slides) and then just not rating it as much for cargo so more people will buy it for their 3/4 ton trucks to tow.  Or am I wrong?

I understand that with my 12,500 capacity, I ideally should stick with about 11,000 pounds or less to give me some safety margin, but these trailer manufacturers are driving me nuts.

 

[Joezeppy]

...Now I'm looking at a bunch of 5th wheels, some have an unladen weight of around 10,000 + 1800 max load for 11,800 GVWR, and then others, like the Coachman Northridge 290RKD (http://coachmenrv.com/products/model/specs/?ProductID=3&SeriesID=58&Product=Fifth%20Wheels&Series=North%20Ridge)  have an unladen weight of 8700 lbs and a GVWR of 14,000lbs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 5,300 lbs available weight for junk, as opposed to 1800.  According to the hard rule, I'd be ok with the 10,000 unladen 5th but not the 8,700 unladen 5th...

Our current TT is like this - 6,800 UVW and 10,400 GVWR. My prior TV had a max trailer rating of 10,300 so on paper, the numbers did not add up. However, based on the large CCC, we bought it figuring we'd never use it all. And, as things worked out, the actual weight of the TT when loaded up came in at about 8,500 lbs. What I found out was that the manufacturer seems to use the same frame and axles for about 6 models - so some end up with a higher CCC than others.

So, if you limit your gear to 2,000 lbs or so, you'd actually be ok with that 14,000 GVWR 5er. Having a large CCC like that is kind of like having a big garage or basement, though - the space is there and you will tend to fill it up!! But I have to say, 5,300 lbs is a LOT OF STUFF (for me, anyway).

Good luck.

 

[pawn]

Thanks for the advice.

The Coachman lists  7000# axles in their "features"  so I figure it's just built to take more. 

As the Outback is actually larger physically (36' long as opposed to 33'), I'm more worried about going over the weight on it despite it's lower GVWR than the Coachman.  It just seems to me that I'd have a larger margin of error with the Coachman plus get a sturdier frame and axles.

 

[BruceinFL]

For towing a fifth wheel, you need to consider the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of your truck and take into consideration the loaded weight of your truck plus the GVWR of the 5W trailer. The other consideration is the gross axle weight rating of your truck (should be stamped on the door). The rear axle will be limiting and for pre-purchase calculation use 20% of the trailer GVWR for the trailer's weight on  the rear axle plus the truck's share of it's loaded weight on the axle.

 

[wrxvette]

With a 5'er you need to worry more about your TV GVWR.  You will hit that faster then you will GCWR.  I have learned this from experience.  As said above look at your axle weight ratings for your truck. 

When computing your trucks GVWR don't forget to ad all your passengers weight and all the extra goodies you are carrying in the cab plus full tank of fuel and of course the weight of your 5'er pushing on your rear axle.

What is your TV?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

We use the trailer GVWR as an estimate of the trailers actual loaded weight, since you have no opportunity to weigh it or knowledge of what you will actually load onboard. Also, the trailer dry weight is mostly fiction - a number that represents a trailer weight you will never actually achieve in real life.

So yes, if the trailer has a large spread between unloaded and max GVWR, you might get by if it is lightly loaded. My only caveat is that the load you put in the trailer will be larger than you ever dreamed. Especially after 4-5 trips - weight has a way of creeping up and up!

 

[donn]

Good morning all,

We're looking at getting a 5th wheel, our TV has a towing capacity of 12,500 pounds, so I understand the trailers GVWR needs to be less than the 12,500.You have to understand that the numbers put out by the manufacturers and are only valid for a base truck with no extras and one 150 pound driver and a 1/4 tank of gas.  Anything added to this base truck subtracts from the truck cargo carrying capacity.  In reality a heavily optioned 3/4 ton diesel pickup will probably weigh ready to camp will scale right around 7500 pounds.

Now I'm looking at a bunch of 5th wheels, some have an unladen weight of around 10,000 + 1800 max load for 11,800 GVWR, and then others, like the Coachman Northridge 290RKD (http://coachmenrv.com/products/model/specs/?ProductID=3&SeriesID=58&Product=Fifth%20Wheels&Series=North%20Ridge)  have an unladen weight of 8700 lbs and a GVWR of 14,000lbs.Again these numbers are totally meaningless.  Lacking an actual ready to camp weight, in your research you should be looking at the fivers GVWR.  Pin weight, that is the weight placed direct over the trucks rear axle will be approx 20% of the scaled or GVWR weight.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 5,300 lbs available weight for junk, as opposed to 1800.  According to the hard rule, I'd be ok with the 10,000 unladen 5th but not the 8,700 unladen 5th. 

What does one get with the Coachman?  A sturdier chassis and axles?  It's a smaller 5th - something like 3-4' shorter.    Can anyone help illuminate me as to why I should not buy the 8,700 5th and just make darn sure I don't load over 3,800 pounds of crap into it?What you get a false idea of what the trailer might actually weigh.

The other one I'm looking at is a Keystone Sydney 325 FRE  (http://keystone-sydney.com/index.php?page=specs).    It just smacks to me of them making an overall heavier trailer with more bells and whistles (like 4 slides) and then just not rating it as much for cargo so more people will buy it for their 3/4 ton trucks to tow.  Or am I wrong?

I understand that with my 12,500 capacity, I ideally should stick with about 11,000 pounds or less to give me some safety margin, but these trailer manufacturers are driving me nuts.

Since you sis not mention what truck you have I will make some assumptions here.
3/4 ton pickup, crew cab gas motor?  How close am I??
Load your family up and be sure to add everything you would normally have on/in the truck for a trip and go to the scales and get an accurate weight.  Subtract that weight from the trucks GVWR you will find posted on the drivers door post.  Now you have exactly how much your truck will be able to carry before you exceed the manufacturers GVWR.  Be sure to add 250 pounds for a hitch.
This is not rocket science.  If you choose to stick with the manufactures numbers you will not be happy with what you discover.  There is no law except in B.C. Canada that says you must not exceed the GVWR/GCWR numbers. However from personal experience you will probably not be a very happy camper if you do.  Regardless what a lot of posters will tell you.

 

[pawn]

Sorry guys, I was rather busy yesterday.

We have a Ford F250 Diesel, long bed super cab.  I'll make sure to check the axle weights as best I can before buying anything. 

Thanks for all the answers, I've learned so far that you guys are more honest and realistic, and the dealers are not very...

 

[SandR]

You may not be happy with the weight - at least that was my experience '08 f250  CCSB 4x4.  Loaded, ready to go I came in at 8700.  If is tough to find a 5er without exceeding truck GVWR.  Also, I beleive that when you see pin weight in a brochure, that is based on dry weight.  To get max pin weight, take pin weight/dry weight = x.  Then x*trailer GVWR = max pin weight when loaded.  If this is not correct somebody please chime in and correct me. 
Pawn - you are correct about dealers -

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

To get max pin weight, take pin weight/dry weight = x.  Then x*trailer GVWR = max pin weight when loaded.  If this is not correct somebody please chime in and correct me.

This method assumes the pin weight stays in proportion as the trailer is loaded to max GVWR and that is probably not true.  It depends on the layout of the trailer, location of water tanks, and what is loaded and where it is placed. In a typical 5W, most of the weight loaded in will be forward of the trailer axles and thus fall more heavily on the hitch than elsewhere.  That said, this method is a way to get an idea of what the loaded tongue/hitch weight may be and thus is a useful estimating tool.

I use a simpler estimate. It's no more accurate, but easy. On a 5W the hitch weight will be 15-25% of the GVWR. I use 20% as a "typical".

 

[pawn]

Thanks for all the replies, guys, even if it wasn't really what I wanted to hear.  We're making plans on trading in the 250 for a 2008 f450 dually, which leaves me with very comfortable weight margins.  Better safe than sorry.

 

[tinner12002]

Most tvs I've looked at have a higher 5er tow rating than for a conventional hitch. 12500 for conventional and 16500 for 5er. That was from a 2008 ford spec chart. Here is the link for it.
http://www.fordf150.net/2008/2008-ford-f250-superduty-specifications.php