Another Motor Home Fire!

[PJ Stough]

I would hope that the RV manufacturers would have done their homework considering the brands they use so I guess my suggestion would be to check out the residential fridges they are using? Just a thought. Dar

Seeing what manufacturers are using would be a good place to start, however, I would be concerned that their primary interest is cost, not what would serve the customer best.

Paul

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The manufacturer doesn't have to fit a fridge into an existing space, so they have more choices than we do for a replacement.

There is an excellent article in our Library about Terry McKnight's Norcold replacement.  He used a 23 cu ft Maytag model MCD2358WEB. See
http://www.rvforum.net/miscfiles/Residential_Refrigerator_Install.pdf

Some others I am aware of used these fridges:

- Samsung RF217ACWP
- Fisher & Paykel E522BRXFDU
- Samsung 3-door 19.7 cu ft

Depth is typically the issue, so a cabinet depth (24") model is a good choice. Height can be a problem too, if your fridge sits up on top of a furnace or drawer of some sort. Check the measurements carefully.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The fridge fires can occur on either gas or electric. It's not the heater per se that starts the fire  - it's the runaway overheat that can happen if the cooling unit fails and loses its refrigerant (ammonia compound). Without the cooling action of the gas cycle, the boiler area can get hot enough to ignite surrounding materials, and under the right (or wrong) conditions even the leaking ammonia gas can catch fire.  That's why newer Norcolds have to NoCo (No Cooling) fault that shuts it down and requires a technician to reset it - it's a symptom of a cooling unit failure and potential fire hazard.  The latest recall adds an even more sensitive "No Cooling" trigger point by installing a thermocouple on the boiler specifically for that reason.

 

[Ned]

This web site has a very comprehensive list of refrigerators with dimensions.

 

[rsalhus]

Don't assume that all fridge fires are caused by faulty refrigerators.  We had a fire in the back of our Dometic Model 1292 side-by-side refrigerator two years ago  that was caused by an electrical wire that shorted out and burned a hole in a cooling system tube, causing the escaping ammonia gas to catch on fire.  The resulting fire had flames coming out of the vent on the roof after the vent had melted down.  The fire was (luckily) put out with a small fire extinguisher, only because I was there to put it out at just the right time.

If the electrical wires in back of the refrigerator had been secured to the wall properly, this fire would have never happened.  There are a few more electrical junction boxes in back of the new refrigerator now, which should prevent this type of fire from occurring in the future.  The only complaint with the new refrigerator (same model) is that it has two small muffin fans that the old model didn't have, and they seem to run an awful lot even when it's not that hot outside.

 

[Ken & Sheila]

Jerry,

I agree that mounting the fire extinguisher higher would be better, but I would get some "heat tape" from Mac or use a remote thermometer to make sure the temp in that area never gets close to 165 degrees. I checked a location above the lower vent but 12" away from the burner stack and it was OK.

ken

 

[Jim Dick]

Dick,

It was the refer that caused the fire. Attached are some photos of the coach. You can see the outside does not show any sign of damage. The inside is a different story.

There is another place on Merritt Island that has fire safety equipment. I'm going to take my foam extinguisher over to have it recharged. Will look into what they offer for fire suppression in a coach.

 

[JerArdra]

Ken,

Based on your picture and your and Gary's comments to my posts it now looks like a remote sensor (see photo) may be the best.  The following is a post I sent to Mac The Fire Guy.
____________________________________________

2/19/2011

Hello,

This is what I want to do.  I want to put an SS30 on the floor behind my
Norcold 1210 in my motorhome (MH).  Looking at the rear of the Norcold from
the wall opening on the outside of the MH I would like to secure the SS30
horizontally on the floor.  If it had a remote head I could then place the
remote head 24 to 30 inches upward next to the Norcold refer coils and also
somewhat closer to the right rear side where the insulated burner tube goes
up to the roof vent.

I think this may be better that placing the SS30 on the floor using only a
90 degree nozzle facing upward "without" a remote head.  This is because if
a Norcold fire occurred the fire's heat would pull lots of the outside
"cooler" air in from the side vent upward behind the Norcold and on out
through the roof vent.  If so the temperature, at the floor level, may never
get hot enough to set off the SS30.

So here are my questions:

Does the model SS30 remote have a SS covered hose to protect it from fire?  Ans: Yes it's Stainless Steel.
How long is the hose?  Ans:  2-3 feet
At what temperature does the SS30 set itself off?  Ans: 165 degrees F
Is the temperature sensor located in the remote head itself as opposed to at
  the SS30 canister?  Ans:  It's in the head
The cost is $250 from MAC The Fire Guy

Thanks,
Jerry FitzGerald

 

[Kim (skyking4ar2) Bertram]

After seeing these pictures, I will be investing in this or a similar fire suppression system immediately.

I know that all the information gathered will be of great value to us all, and I appreciate the efforts being made to make us all smarter and safer.

This may be the most valuable thread I have read to date, and I thought I had a read a few already.

Thanks to all who are contributing!

Kim

 

[thedoc]

So then, if the fire can occur with either gas or electric mode, what is the reason to replace the RV fridge residential one? is a residential fridge less likely to have a fire? Do they use a different refrigerant than an RV fridge that is safer?

 

[Ned]

Residential refrigerators use a compressor for cooling while absorption units use a heated liquid/gas mechanism.  The chemical used in an absorption cooling unit is toxic and flammable if the cooling unit leaks.  The residential models are much safer as a result.

 

[JerArdra]

I just received an email re my questions from Jim Bounds at [email protected].  He sells these fire extinguishers with a remote head.  I sent him my explanation about using a remote head and why I did NOT want to place it on the floor (see my previous post).

Here is his answer:  Actually, this did happen.  A fire occurred up high in the frig compartment which caused cool air to come in from below.  The heat strip on the SS30 that was inside the compartment showed the temp never reached even 100 degrees.

JerryF

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The refrigerant in a compressor fridge is much less corrosive than the ammonia compound in an absorption fridge, so the chances of a cooling unit leak failure that results in overheating is much less.  If a compressor fridge loses its refrigerant, the compressor overheats and dies but usually doesn't burst into flames. 

Electrical fires can still happen, though.

 

[Jim Dick]

I just received an email re my questions from Jim Bounds at [email protected].  He sells these fire extinguishers with a remote head.  I sent him my explanation about using a remote head and why I did NOT want to place it on the floor (see my previous post).

Here is his answer:  Actually, this did happen.  A fire occurred up high in the frig compartment which caused cool air to come in from below.  The heat strip on the SS30 that was inside the compartment showed the temp never reached even 100 degrees.

JerryF

Jerry,

I've been in contact with Mac about this fire. Will be sending him the photos. I'd like to get the remote head as well but it means removing the refer from the wall. Really don't want to do that. Need to investigate locations again.

 

[gwcowgill]

Looking at the photos of the inside of the rig, it appears to me that we should be pushing for the same non-combustible materials used in the Aircraft industry.

 

[Jim Dick]

Looking at the photos of the inside of the rig, it appears to me that we should be pushing for the same non-combustible materials used in the Aircraft industry.

That would be great but I'm betting it'll cost more money so they won't even think about it. The prices are too high now!

 

[Jim Godward]

With the acknowledged probability of fire due to the refers, a factory installation of  fire extinguisher would seem to be a reasonable compromise but I doubt that will happen either. If I were to by a new RV it would have either a residential refer or a fire extinguisher with the normal RV refer.  Actually, there would be no choice, it would be the residential refer!   

 

[Kim (skyking4ar2) Bertram]

I would like to ask another question about the amount of damage that results with the deployment of the halon.

Certainly, you get the fire out, but is the cleanup a serious issue?

And secondly, does it make sense to mount two extinguishers, one low, one high, for the kind of circumstances some have described with the chimney effect?

I want my fire out, and like right now, and if all that takes is two units, ~ $350 seems cheap compared to watching my house burn down. If time is of the essence in knocking down the fire, doesn't the redundancy buy me something?

 

[Jim Dick]

Halon does not leave any residue once it dries up. it removes all oxygen from the area. That's why you do not want to use it inside the coach.

Two extinguishers certainly would be better than one.

 

[Ned]

Halon is a gas, thus leaves no residue.  Here is a good FAQ on Halon and how it works as a fire extinguisher.