Auxiliary braking systems for Toads

[wavy4jc]

I am sure this topic has been covered before, but I couldnt find anything on the newcomer's board about auxiliary braking systems when they are needed concerning weight limitations. 

Based upon your experience, when do they need to be deployed?

I will be driving a ~30ft Class C or Class A (gas) pulling a 2010 Honda Civic (2700 lbs).  Should I deploy an auxiliary braking system?  I would think they would be most needed on those 6-8% multi-mile down-grades while mountain driving.  TIA, Ray

 

[ArdraF]

You're correct.  There are many discussions on auxiliary braking systems which you should be able to find by using the Search tab above left.  They will be in the appropriate board which in this case most likely will be Towing and Towables but don't limit your search to any one board unless you find too much.

There are different kinds of auxiliary braking systems and they operate differently.  Ours is always "on" and activates (your "deploy"?) when we step on the floor button.  We tend to say here that you go downhill in the same gear you're in when you reach the top before starting downhill.  On our long western downgrades I often step on the button at the top of the hill before picking up very much speed and keep my foot on the button all the way down the hill.  This eliminates most usage of the service brakes which I reserve for when I pick up too much speed in spite the auxiliary brake (ours is a Jake Brake) being on.  Ours will hold easily at 5 percent and most of the time at 6 percent, but with a 40,000-pound RV plus the car we almost always need it on really long 6 percent downgrades such as the 17-mile long Baker Grade on I-15 in California.  There also are a couple where we use the service brakes more because the downgrades are both long and have many curves such as the road that goes from I-15 down to the Colorado River at Laughlin NV.  In that case you really, really want to be going slow at the bottom of the hill because there's a stop light and a bridge.  A couple of others have either a sharp turn at the bottom or a cliff face or both.

It takes some practice to see what the auxiliary brakes can or cannot do, but I'm glad you have one.  There will be times when you're very glad you have it.

ArdraF

 

[bucks2]

Ardra read your post as if it meant you were asking about Jake/exhaust brakes on your MH. I read it as asking about auxilliary brakes on your car behind your MH. Could you clarify?

If you're talking about braking systems for toads then I recommend the easiest to hook up, so you'll use it every time you tow. Even on relitively flat land it's nice to have 4 extra tires helping to stop you when someone does something unexpected in front of you. I use the type that uses an airline from the MH to the toad and it actuates the toad brakes every time I press the MH brake pedal.

There are many different discussions of this topic as Ardra says. Search and you'll probably find enough posts to support either side.

Ken

 

[ArdraF]

Ardra read your post as if it meant you were asking about Jake/exhaust brakes on your MH. I read it as asking about auxilliary brakes on your car behind your MH. Could you clarify?

No, Ken, I was trying to answer the OP's question by using an example.  We've had them for years and know how to use them.  I just reread my answer and don't understand what I could clarify because I wasn't "asking" but "telling."

ArdraF

 

[John From Detroit]

To answer's the OPs clearest question :Are they needed?  YES, in nearly every state at some point you MUST have aux brakes on a trailer.. And a care in tow, unless specifically exempted (As in the case of when towed by a wrecker) is a TRAILER.

Some web pages that tell you what states require brakes miss that point and if there is no law specifically saying a CAR needs aux brakes, they say NO,  but a car in tow is really a trailer, it trails behind the tow vehicle you see. (Much simplified reasoning, the actual law is a whole lot wordier).

As to what kind.. There are many kinds, I am opposed to the portable systems (The box in the driver's seat) because it is way to eaxy to say "Oh too much trouble" for a short tow, followed shortly by "I wish I had not said that" or words to that effect (Usually two words, the first is OH and the second I won't type).

THere are too many good, Installed, Systems for me to discuss today. (long day) and others are already doing that. But the ones I know the most about are M&G, Air force one, US-Gear Unified brake Decelerator (WHich I have used) Invisible brake and the two surge brake systems out there (Ready Brake and Auto-Stop) .

All are good. all have advantages, all have disadvantages.

 

[Bob Buchanan]

I just reread my answer and don't understand what I could clarify because I wasn't "asking" but "telling."

ArdraF

Ardra, I think Ken was asking the OP to clarify.

"Ardra read your post . . . . " vs. "Ardra, read your post . . ."

 

[bucks2]

Bob's got it. Ardra appears to be talking about using her Jake brake on hills as if that was the auxiliary braking system the OP wanted to talk about. I thought it was about  "Auxiliary braking systems for Toads" meaning the system in the toad. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Maybe we do need to adopt "text speech". As in: Ardra red your post....... Not: Ardra, reed your post........ 


Ken

 

[ArdraF]

Okay, confusion reins.    I was talking about the auxiliary system for the car as the OP asked.  Let me clarify.  We have air brakes in the motorhome and when we put on our Jake Brake in the motorhome, the auxiliary braking system also applies the brakes in the car and the brake lights come on in both vehicles.  They are interconnected and work together, in our case through the air lines.  That's one of the types of auxiliary systems I was using as an example.  Not everyone has air brakes, but even if they don't, when they put the brakes on in the motorhome the brakes in the car should also go on.  That's the whole point of having an auxiliary braking system in the car - so you avoid jackknifing and other unpleasant occurrences.  To my way of thinking you can't talk about one without talking about the other.  When we got our first toad we added an auxiliary braking system that used a box in the car but it was still activated by the driver inside the motorhome.  I remember that we set the sensitivity of the auxiliary braking system by driving the motorhome with car attached on gravel and then braked to make sure the auxiliary brakes worked without making the toad slide on the gravel.

I hope this clears up what I was trying to say earlier.

ArdraF

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

You had me fooled too, Ardra. The OP is asking about auxiliary (toad) braking on a gas chassis motorhome. Since its about a gas engine coach, I think diesel engine or exhaust brakes are at best tangential to the question.

But all that is off-topic anyway.

wavy4jc: Regardless of the legal question raised by John from Detroit, an auxiliary brake system for the toad will always make your stopping distance shorter. Applying the toads own brakes in addition to the motorhome brakes  gives you more braking power and more tires in contact with the road to do the stopping. That's an unbeatable combination, in my book.

Furthermore, every gas motor chassis owner manual will contain instructions requiring auxiliary braking in excess of a certain toad or trailer weight. Typically it is 1500 lbs. Basically the manual will tell you that the motorhome chassis brakes are designed to stop the motorhome weight (GVWR) alone and any toad or trailer must have its own brakes.

 

[Wyotraveler]

Wyoming doesn't require toad brakes but it is good to have them anyway. Plus I need them if I enter a state that requires them. There are many brands on the market. I use the Blue Ox Patriot. I can set the sensitivity in my MH. I do run a charge line to my toad battery through a diode.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

John's argument about a car being  a trailer is logical enough, but logic and law don't necessarily go hand in hand.  Many, probably most, states specifically exempt cars-in-tow from their trailer laws but typically have other laws that do apply and may require brakes, safety cables, etc.. The Canadian provinces too. The salient point is that there may be places you visit that have requirements you must heed.

 

[ArdraF]

Gary, you're right.  I confused the issue by bringing in air systems when I meant only to say there are different kinds of auxiliary systems and they operate differently.  That was in answer to the OP's question about when to "deploy" the system.

Back to the topic at hand.

ArdraF

 

[DailyDriver]

Should I deploy an auxiliary braking system?  I would think they would be most needed on those 6-8% multi-mile down-grades while mountain driving.  TIA, Ray

A break-a-way system for aux braking should be considered, regardless of whether you incorporate any kind of auxiliary brakes for slowing down.  If that toad breaks loose (it happens more than you think) you will want it to stop ASAP to minimize collateral damage and liability.  A break-a-way system put out by Even-Brake will work with any other aux braking system.  I have had the box type braking systems, and just a year ago went to straight Even Brake for slowing down and break-a-way.  I could never go back to anything else.  The Even Brake is remarkable in it's simplicity of operation, reliability, and ease of hooking up/unhooking.

 

[BernieD]

Unless I missed it, one point not covered is that all current motorhome chassis require supplemental braking if your actual gross combined weight exceeds your gross vehicle weight, your loaded coach plus towed vehicle weighs more than the GVW rating. The chassis suspensions and braking systems are not approved for more weight.

 

[John From Detroit]

Good point Bernie, however since most all states require brakes on a Trailer of more than a very small weight, (from 1500 to 4,000 pounds depending on the state) and since a car in TOW is a trailer, and since CIVIL law, should you rear end someone, is going to be a witch if you don't have brakes on the trailing car..... I can understand why it's not been brought up before.