Back again :) more questions about...well alot!

[mountainlady]

Hi guys.  Well after a few months of visiting RV shows/dealers and looking and researching trucks I am left with some questions.  As I stated in my previous posts, I am going this solo.  I've decided that I will definitely be purchasing a 3/4T, either Chevy or Dodge, and have visited those respective dealers in my area.  After what I have learned here,  I have been dutifully looking at payloads, tow capacity, etc. and really have a preference for Chevys (just cuz I'm a Chevy girl  ;D), although the Dodge seems to have a bit more towing capacity. 

After looking at it all, I think I'm going to go with a new 2015 Chevy 2500HD; however, am confused about the rear axle gear ratio thing.  From the research I've done here, it seems like the 4.10 is better but several ppl have told me that when I'm not towing (which will be the majority of time) it will devastate my gas mileage and I should go for the 3.73.  Is this valid?  Payload so the Chevy booklet dealer gave me says is 3200 so how do I calculate if this is enough with a particular 5?  Are there any other considerations I need to be thinking of?

As for what I am considering towing, after much walking through models and thought, I've determined that I am going to go with a smaller unit, either TT or 5 (as I've never towed anything before and am scared of the larger units right now).  Most of the 5's I have seriously considered I noticed have a GVWR of 10,000 pds or less (the largest one I believe was 9980 GVWR, not dry weight as I have learned here  ), and the TT's I like most are smaller 26-28' (like the Laredos and Cougars) and are like 6000-7000 dry weight so still under the 10,000 GVWR.  So given that, the Chevy 2500HD seems to fit the bill with (as the booklet says) 13,000 tow capcity and 14,000 for Fifth wheel (why is there a difference?), but again, are there things I need to consider that I'm not?  From what I've seen so far, I will not be towing more than 10,000 to 11,000 pds max totally loaded.

Thanks again for all your help! 

 

[steveblonde]

This is a great place to go

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-2500hd-heavy-duty-trucks.html

on the chevy the 2500 and 3500 diesel come with 3:73 - gas comes with 4:10, if you can get diesel its way better for towing and for the extra $300 or so get a 1 ton/3500 only diff is an extra spring but way more capacity it you decide you want a bigger trailer down the road

 

[Idahocountryboy]

Hi guys.  Well after a few months of visiting RV shows/dealers and looking and researching trucks I am left with some questions.  As I stated in my previous posts, I am going this solo.  I've decided that I will definitely be purchasing a 3/4T, either Chevy or Dodge, and have visited those respective dealers in my area.  After what I have learned here,  I have been dutifully looking at payloads, tow capacity, etc. and really have a preference for Chevys (just cuz I'm a Chevy girl  ;D), although the Dodge seems to have a bit more towing capacity. 

After looking at it all, I think I'm going to go with a new 2015 Chevy 2500HD; however, am confused about the rear axle gear ratio thing.  From the research I've done here, it seems like the 4.10 is better but several ppl have told me that when I'm not towing (which will be the majority of time) it will devastate my gas mileage and I should go for the 3.73.  Is this valid?  Payload so the Chevy booklet dealer gave me says is 3200 so how do I calculate if this is enough with a particular 5?  Are there any other considerations I need to be thinking of?

As for what I am considering towing, after much walking through models and thought, I've determined that I am going to go with a smaller unit, either TT or 5 (as I've never towed anything before and am scared of the larger units right now).  Most of the 5's I have seriously considered I noticed have a GVWR of 10,000 pds or less (the largest one I believe was 9980 GVWR, not dry weight as I have learned here  ), and the TT's I like most are smaller 26-28' (like the Laredos and Cougars) and are like 6000-7000 dry weight so still under the 10,000 GVWR.  So given that, the Chevy 2500HD seems to fit the bill with (as the booklet says) 13,000 tow capcity and 14,000 for Fifth wheel (why is there a difference?), but again, are there things I need to consider that I'm not?  From what I've seen so far, I will not be towing more than 10,000 to 11,000 pds max totally loaded.

Thanks again for all your help!

Ok, there are several items here:
1) The 2015 2500 HD is a fine choice. Is it gas or diesel? As for the gear ratio... 4.10's are better for pulling heavy loads, like 15,000 Lbs or more. The Higher the number (4.10) the lower the gear ratio (ie... easier it is to take off from a stop). Lower numbers (are higher gear ratio's) like 3.73, 3.55, 3.42 are available in the verities of trucks. What they are for is fuel milage abut the lower the number (higher the gear ratio) the less you can tow with ease.

Now with that clear as mud, it sounds like for what you are doing, 3.73's would be your best bet. I have a Dodge Cummins... and this is what we see with different gear at higher speeds like 60 mph+
3.55 @ 65 mph = 1,900 - 2,000 RPM (best fuel mileage empty)
3.73 @ 65 mph = 2,000 - 2,100 RPM
4.10 @ 65 mph = 2,100 - 2,200 RPM (worst fuel mileage empty)
This is to try to show what you'll see with gears at top speeds. So, as you can see the 3.55's use the least amount of RPM's at top speed, but will work the hardest getting going with a 10,000 trailer. 4.10's work more RPM's at higher speeds (or you could stay in the happy zone of 55 mph) but work less to get that 10,000 lbs going from a stop. The 3.73 is a middle ground that most like.
I have 3.55's and towed a 26,300 lbs truck and trailer weight RV from Texas to Idaho and back. Now, I have modified truck and do not recommend that for yourself, but it CAN be done. This being said, I wished the whole time I had 3.73's if not 4.10's.

The reason why I said empty with the fuel mileage is because there are upwards of 1,000 things that effect fuel mileage, and only get amplified with hauling. If you research in here you'll find the same thing over and over... 10 miles per gallon. (diesel) there are some at 13, 12, 9, 8... but the avg. is 10 +/-.

2) With the 2500 HD you will have a little room to grow, but not much. So if you get a TT and then later want a 5th wheel, you can, but I will say this... diesels are the way to go once you break that 10,000 lbs mark.

3) The reason there is difference on ratings is because of where the weight is being applied. The TT puts it on the lower hitch, the 5th wheel puts it over the axle and is able to support more weight.

4) I do not know if you know or not, but there are many factors in the differences in hauling a TT v 5er. Stability, payloads, and so on. So if you questions on those we can get into them if you like.

 

[RVRAC]

If you are going to tow anything with a 2500 Chevy, you need to go with the 4.10 rear end unless you are going to buy a diesel.  The 4.10 gas will be fine for what you are looking for.  However, if you feel that in the future you want to move to a 38-40 ft FW, then you need to go with a 3500.  I have a 2500HD gas because I pull the trailer only about 2,500 miles/yr and over 8,000/ year without towing.  It was hard to justify $8,000 more for  a diesel.  My two cents.

 

[COMer]

And I have the 2500 with 3.73 gears and a 6.0 gas engine.  I am rated to tow the trailer you are considering, but would not.  If I was doing that, knowing what I do, I would get the 4.10 or diesel.  It is a great towing truck but you would enjoy it much more if you didn't operate on the edge.

Enjoy the ride.  You are in for a lot of fun and help from the group on this forum.

 

[mountainlady]

Thanks everyone!  Yes, the Chevy I'm considering is a gas (I don't really want a deisel right now and can't really afford or justify the extra cost now).  Now I'm not sure on the 3.73 vs the 4.10 after reading the replies.  I guess some feel one way and some the other.  I was considering going the middle ground with the 3.73 as someone suggested but then read the last replies and am going hmmm....have to think on this a bit.

I was also wondering about tire size....for example, the invoice says it comes with 245/75/17's but I know on my current Silvarado 1500 I have 265/75/18's.  When I asked the dealer about the pros/cons of going up to the 265/18's and towing, etc., all he said was "well you have more rubber on the road"  :-\  Yeah, not the answer I was looking for LOL.  Is there a difference? 

Also (I know I have a million questions LOL!), I was wondering if I get a 5 do they have put cut a hole in the bed of the truck to put the hitch in?  How does that work?  I'm leaning towards a small 5 as a friend told me it would be much easier for me to handle, being a novice tower  for stablity, handling, ease of hitching/unhitching myself, etc. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm running 3.55 gears against a 5.9L Diesel I get about 23-24 MPG empty but about 12-14 towing the RV.

If your going to be towing a majority of the time I would opt for 3.73 gears which give the best for highway travel.  But being majority of your time is empty I would stay with 3.55 gears and use the transmission to lighten the load. Like myself I typically back out of 5th gear to 4th (1:1 Direct) for grades.

 

[Ernie n Tara]

As far as the tire, its load range that counts the most. Just be sure the truck is rated high enough and you will get the correct load range tire. It does seem that 17 inch is more readily available.

Incidentally, if you were concerned about ease of driving and use, you would be looking at a smaller class A motor home. It's easier to connect and disconnect a towed than any trailer,  the motor home is easier to drive, you don't have to get out in the rain as often, etc, etc, etc. That said, I'd tend to agree that a fiver may be easier to handle than a trailer.

Ernie

 

[donn]

You really want to skip the 2500 and go for a 3500.  Especially with a fifth wheel.  Towing is not the problem.  Load carrying capacity is.  Besides upgrading because you did not get the right truck first can be costly.  The difference in fuel economy between 3.73 and 4.10 is going to be so small as to be not worth worrying about.  But towing you will notice the difference.
Instead of a new truck consider a used one equipped to work.  Save yourself a bundle and get the right truck the first time.

 

[donuts]

although the Dodge seems to have a bit more towing capacity. 

The Dodge diesel trucks I looked at were 2500's and their towing capacity was lower than Ford and Chevy/GMC. Reason was the truck weighed more than the other two. The Dodge dealer we visited had the towing chart and I was taken back when I saw this. The salesman confirmed this for me so as much as I liked the Dodge diesel and interior, the payload was not going to work for me. By the way, the payload was only 2,200 lbs.
We ended up buying a GMC diesel because the GMC Duramax/Allison is what I consider the best towing package. JMO! I like the looks of a GMC more than the Chevy product and the price is not that much more.
As far as diesel vs gas? No comparison in towing power or mileage. I was talking to a guy that was traveling south from BC, Canada in his Dodge with the big V8 Gasser towing a 28' 5Th. We were at a rest stop and he was commenting about the grade he came up and how long it was. He said his tranny heated up so he had to drop a gear (probably didn't understand that he needed to be in a lower gear to begin with). I came up that same grade several months earlier and have the same size trailer. It was a breeze for me because I have a diesel. Resale should give you the investment back vs the Gasser.

Stan

 

[Marsha/CA]

Mountainlady,

I am a woman and I have towed both a bumper pull and a 5th wheel.  There are some differences:

With the Trailer:

• follows the truck tires so trailer tracks right behind the truck
• easy to connect to the truck; but you will probably need equalizer bars or something similar
• Frees the truck bed to be able to carry extra "stuff"
• easy to back up and park the tailer

With the 5th wheel

• Much more stable in wind and when big semis are passing on highways
• more storage
• harder to park as it takes more front swing room of the nose of the truck (this does get easier as you learn how to handle it)
• need to make a bigger swing out when going around corners or making turns
• Takes up truck bed space

Having said all this, I loved pulling the 5th wheel. And one thing I've learned over the years of horse trailer and RVing.....bigger is always better.  If you do decide to get the 2500 I would spend the extra to get a diesel.  Better towing....better resale.
Marsha~

 

[mountainlady]

Wow, I'm feeling severely overwhelmed, as I had been thinking that as long as I paid attention to the GVWR and tow rating of my vehicle I'd be ok.  :-\  Also, someone mentioned "dropping into 4th" or something and I realized I have absolutely NO CLUE on that subject.  No one I have talked to in person has explained anything like that to me (perhaps those I'm speaking with don't know either).  The dealer had mentioned something that "the newer trucks sense that stuff and do it on their own, like when your going down a hill and such, it senses it" and like holds you back or something, so I was like cool!  I really seriously need to learn how to drive/tow effectively but i've looked and there are no such schools or classes anywhere near me and my queries of others I know has been pointless.  Ughh....

 

[donuts]

Wow, I'm feeling severely overwhelmed, as I had been thinking that as long as I paid attention to the GVWR and tow rating of my vehicle I'd be OK.  :-\  Also, someone mentioned "dropping into 4Th" or something and I realized I have absolutely NO CLUE on that subject.  No one I have talked to in person has explained anything like that to me (perhaps those I'm speaking with don't know either).  The dealer had mentioned something that "the newer trucks sense that stuff and do it on their own, like when your going down a hill and such, it senses it" and like holds you back or something, so I was like cool!  I really seriously need to learn how to drive/tow effectively but I've looked and there are no such schools or classes anywhere near me and my queries of others I know has been pointless.  Ughh....

Some advice, slowwwwwww down. The only thing intimidating about puling a TT or 5Th is lack of hands on experience. Try to spend as much time as possible looking at posts in the forum that will give you knowledge. Believe me, you will gain experience when you read posts on the forum. That's how I learned what I needed to know before I started. Puling or backing a trailer is not that hard.....I's just a bit intimidating initially. I had no problem going from a tent trailer to a 5Th wheel. Never went to a big parking lot to practice. If I miss once or twice, I just pull forward until I gt it right.
Most 3/4 ton trucks have a tow haul mode that will help you automatically shift to the correct gear. Just need to learn how your transmission works. With my 2014 GMC Duramax/Allison, the harder I hit the brakes in tow haul, the quicker I get to lower gears and slow down. I also have an engine exhaust brake that helps me slow down. And, if I choose, I can switch out of tow haul and go to manually choosing my gear. Never had to use it, but I would if I was going down a steep hill.
Marsha is right on.
I agree with Donn. Only reason I didn't get a 1 ton is I knew we would not buy another trailer and my 3/4 ton is perfect for our trailer.
17" tires will give you a more comfortable ride IMO.
3.73 gears are perfect for my diesel.
Good luck to you. It's a journey that's very exciting.

Stan

 

[mountainlady]

Thanks, Stan.  Yeah, the further I go down this journey the more overwhelmed I feel.  It also doesn't help that times like this also make me miss my husband  :'(  I never had to worry about any of this stuff; he just knew and took care of it all. 

Deep breath....OK.  Do I truly need a diesel to tow less tahn 10,000#?  Tons of people (including lots here, no?) use gas engines, right, for both TT and small 5 under 10K?  I don't plan on towing extensively, but I guess as some pointed out above, you never know what the future holds. 

 

[steveblonde]

Thanks, Stan.  Yeah, the further I go down this journey the more overwhelmed I feel.  It also doesn't help that times like this also make me miss my husband  :'(  I never had to worry about any of this stuff; he just knew and took care of it all. 

Deep breath....OK.  Do I truly need a diesel to tow less tahn 10,000#?  Tons of people (including lots here, no?) use gas engines, right, for both TT and small 5 under 10K?  I don't plan on towing extensively, but I guess as some pointed out above, you never know what the future holds.

no you DO NOT need a diesel its just a luxury in your case - in mine because of the weight the mountains etc etc its more of a need but you will be just fine with a 3/4ton gas with a tow package - personally i would go for the 3:73 gear but thats not a deal breaker either way.

go find a truck you like and take a picture of the door decal with the GVWR and axle rating and it can be decifered here as too how big a trailer you can pull - you dont have to buy the truck but its a good way for you to know what it is you want/need
then go find a trailer you like and post the same gvwr decal - usually on the outside drivers side at the front and we can do the same thing

key is dont rush into anything take your time and ask questions -" he/she who asks the most questions is the boss knowledge is power"

 

[John From Detroit]

Dropping into 4th... If you have a 5 speed transmission then using 4th gear (So long as you do not overrev) can give you a bit more Trorque.... Torque is what gets you moving..(NOT HP, though you may get more of that at higher RPM's too) also when going down hill a lower gear increases engine braking (But again do not over-rev)

The Allison transmission common on many non-Ford trucks does indeed take care of most of this depending on the options chosen... And Ford's latest transmission is billed as "The Answer to the Allison"

NOTE also.. I have seen "Ford" trucks where the engine,transmission,chassis and drive train were NOT ford...The Fenders were, but that is about all.(Body by Ford to be precise)  (Truck by Cummins).

 

[donuts]

Do I truly need a diesel to tow less than 10,000#?

No you don't. You could use a a gasser, but a diesel will tow your trailer much easier. Just to let you know, my trailer full with water is right at 9,600 lbs with the truck at 9,200. I wouldn't want to travel to Alaska, the East Coast, etc without the diesel. I also travel through the Sierra Nevada, Rockies, etc. Pulling those grades is a piece of cake. And, if you don't believe me, just look at what is pulling the 5Th wheel trailers and larger travel trailers down the road. I'll bet over 90% diesel.
Advantages; more torque, better milage, better resale, will travel more miles before a rebuild. If you can afford the diesel, you will be happier in the long run.

Stan

 

[mountainlady]

Thanks for the advice.  I guess I need to go back to the drawing board and rethink everything a bit.  I'm feeling a bit stressed I think not only from having to learn everything from scratch but also because everyone (anyone I have talked to and every single dealer I've been to) has told me that I am at risk of losing trade-in value once my current '10 Chevy Silvarado hits 50K miles, and it is currently at 47,600.  Add to that my lender has told me that I need to get both loan components done within 30 days of each other  (in my particular credit situation for best financing that is).  Thought I had it all figured out for the most part LOL but am finding that's not quite true .  Sorry guys!  Yeah, I'm feeling a bit stressed. 

 

[COMer]

Plenty of good advice but what is best for YOU can only be determined by you.  It might be quite different for another because they have different needs or want to prepare themselves for another scenario down the road.  I bought a gas Chevy and it was the right decision for me.  At the time, a diesel would have been almost $10,000 more for the engine, the Allison transmission and the fact that you could not get the basic model I wanted with a diesel. I couldn't justify it and I now have about 60,000 miles on my truck and it has been the right choice for me.  I tow an 8,000# fifth-wheel and it has been just right for us.  I don't want to tow something bigger but I know that many do.  Do what is best for you and realize that you may find after buying, that you may need to do it again some day but you will have started on the journey.

And do not believe almost anybody who tells you something in connection with trying to get you to buy from them or do business with them.  Seek unbiased advisors and trust them.  There are way too many stories about uninformed salesmen misleading people and helping them make wrong, or even dangerous,  decisions. 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Lots of advice here and none of it wrong, but I suspect it is just contributing to the "overwhelmed" feeling. Aficionados of RVing and trailering tend to promote idealized solutions and sometimes make them seem like the only legitimate answer, but in fact there is a range of capable solutions. The diesel vs gas debate is one of the more common ones, as is the dually vs single rear wheel axle. Don't get too hung up on the difference between "absolute best" and "good enough" at this stage of the game. With trailers under 10,000 lbs GVWR you have plenty of good tow vehicle options (that gas 2500HD is one of them) and there are many other important questions that need your attention, e.g. the trailer layout (floor plan) and features.

So slow down, take a deep breathe and try to keep a broad perspective on your overall wants and needs.