basement heater making a strange noise

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Charlie,

On the cold air return screws that are on the top, I can barely see one let alone unscrew it.  I tried
a couple small screw drivers (manual) on the screws next to the sharp bend, they would not
move.  I'm thinking dyanamite.... :'(
 
phelpo said:
Charlie,

On the cold air return screws that are on the top, I can barely see one let alone unscrew it.  I tried
a couple small screw drivers (manual) on the screws next to the sharp bend, they would not
move.  I'm thinking dyanamite.... :'(
Click to expand...

I remember them. If they have a hex type head, try a small socket on small ratchet.

If the head has a slot or Phillips cross, try one of those very short 90 degree screw bars to just loosen it a few turns to finger turn remove.

If you have very small vice grip wrench..try gripping the screw from the side or top of the head to just loosen a few turns to finger turn remove.

Patience..finesse....no dynamite.

Charlie
 
Patience..finesse....no dynamite.

+1 for that  ;)  I replaced the bearings in our unit last spring per Duners guide - thanks Bill. I also replaced the rusted screws with new ones, and went one step further - added anti-seize to the new screws and brackets. Since I plan on keeping this unit for awhile, I want to make sure whatever I need to service in the future is as "easy" as possible.  Link for the anti-seize material I used...  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AAJTXY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001HWDERQ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1R1Z2QC3NNHQFF0DEKKF

Be prepared to replace the gasket material on both the return air side and the output side as part of the fix. My gaskets were compressed and pretty well shot. I used some weatherstrip foam to form the new gaskets. I did encounter a small problem getting the unit back in place with the new gaskets because I couldn't push hard enough to compress the foam I used. Wound up using the screws extending thru the bottom of the unit as pry points and forcing it back into place. No problems and no noticeable air leaks up to this point. One thing I would recommend you do while you have your unit out is to clean the evaporator coil. I did not (brain burp), and now I'm trying to figure out how to clean them without pulling the unit again.

Pops

'04 Vectra 40AD
'03 Sport Trac or '05 Saturn Vue
 
Pops,

Excellent additions and pointers for this project. I too use more anti-seize on fasteners/bolts where I anticipate I might have to return. It only takes a couple of years for fasteners to get frozen from rust.

I used new foam cut to fit 1 inch wide, or 1/2 inch wide, 1/2 inch thick replacements. Common brand stuff "Thermoseal" weatherseal foam at almost every hardware store.

Thumbs up on cleaning the evaporator coil while it's out exposed for maintenance. I used the diluted Simple Green spray and fresh water rinse. I took the opportunity to use a coil fin straightner tool for a few spots on my coils.

I forgot to clean my evaporator coil too when I had it out...and finally ended up cleaning it from the inside of the coach via the return duct access hole. Had to be somewhat of a tunnel rat to get down close enough to spray clean solution and then route freshwater hose into coach where I could rinse it through same access. Some folks might not realize what grunge accumulates on the inside evap coils over time by return air.. thereby reducing unit efficiency.  ::)

Charlie
 
ok gang I'm back and not bleeding.  Thanks Pops and Charlie for excellent
info.  I always say use your brain not your brawn.  I only want to do this
once. 

So I got all the screws out on the cold air output, with dust and grim in
my face, and a stronger will than stuck screws, it is loose. The top
screws did come loose when I borrowed a small drill and forced my
arm thru the very small opening next to the power cords. What is
a little skin, I guess now I have skin in the game!  There were two
z type brackets with 4 screws in each, one on the engine side
and the other on top.  On the outside side were two screws that
went thru the plastic housing.  It is dirty, heck seven yrs will do that.

I'm either going to borrow a motorcycle lift (I hope so) or buy one
from Harbor Freight $89.  It looks like I need to get the lift under
the unit apply little pressure then remove the four bolts holding
the unit. 

Pops my only concern now is the rear cold air return, does the unit
just slip into the opening?  The metal bracket I talked about before
hides my view.

Pops could you explain this to me?  Also I ordered the cage and
bearings Bill used, did they fit your unit?

Thanks,

Phelpo
 
Phelpo,

As I recall, once you remove all the screws and the "z" angles on the engine side and top, the output duct will sag free. Be very careful to support it with bungee cords per Bills notes or you will place excessive stress on the taped joint farther up between the rear wall and the end cap. If that taped joint fails, I understand it is a real trick to re-attach and re-tape properly without removing the rear cap...just a tad more than I wanted to do, so I was super cautious.  On my unit there are no brackets around the return air - the unit fits pretty snug, and if you replace the gasket with the regular closed cell adhesive weatherstrip stuff that Charlie mentioned, it will seal pretty well.

I caught the bearings early enough that I did not have to replace the fan itself, so I still have the metal fan. The bearings Bill spec'd worked fine for me. You will need to be careful once you get the unit open - when you pull out the inside blower housing, you may need an extra set of hands to hold the coil fins apart so you have room enough to get the motor and fan housing out without damaging the fins. You'll see what I mean once you get the top off of the unit.

Hope this helps a little and I answered your question.

Pops
 
Pops,

thanks for your input, I had forgotten to support the air duct, but I had added
a/c tape to it right after buying this rig, so it had not moved,  Bungee is now in
place supporting the duct.

Pops, I'm assuming you used some type of lift to lower the unit.  Did it lower
rather easily after removing the four bolts holding it up?  Do you have the
same metal shield on the engine side?  Looks like it will stay in place when the
unit is lowered.  Right?

Rain today, must be a day off.
Phelpo
 
My unit is set into a fixed angle cradle (like the photos that Bill has in his notes) and I had to lift it up to clear the angle cradle and pull it straight out. I'm a little out in the toolies, so I make do with what I have when I can. Rather than the neat lift that has been mentioned here, I pulled a balancing act with a couple of garage floor jacks - one used (with a good size 6x6 block) to jack up the unit from the cradle and move it part way out, another on the outside of the angle cradle to allow me to pull the unit over the cradle and all the way out and position it on the buckets/blocks. The jacks along with  some good size wooden blocks that I have used for blocking my leveling jacks (6x6, 8x8, and 2x10 of varying lengths) worked well. I have a smooth concrete floor in the barn, so rolling the unit a little on the jacks was not a problem - just went slow and provided a little muscle and ballast where appropriate. I used the same kind of bucket arrangement that Bill did, but arranged so that I could pull the jack supporting the unit through the buckets, then let the unit down to rest on the buckets and blocking. Sounds tougher than it really was. I did run the A/C unit on the stand b/4 reinstalling - make sure your inside air blower vent (screen on the bottom of the unit) is clear if you plan on running it on the stand. My unit was not fastened in with any large bolts, and the angle cradle and the brackets (upper and lower) are all that holds it in place. Our rig was produced in Feb/Mar. of '04, so they may have made some engineering changes to the anchor/mounting system if yours was produced earlier or later in the model year run. I do have an exhaust heat shield that is mounted below and slightly inboard of the return air duct to help deflect some of the heat generated by the exhaust and muffler, but it was not really a factor in pulling or replacing the unit.

Pops
 
Pops,  did you look at John's pics when he had his unit replaced?  They took
it out frame and all.  I think we are talking about the same things.
There are two large bolts in the front holding the frame up and in the rear
there are two smaller bolts just holding it in places since the
frame rest on another piece of steel.  There are several braces around
the unit holding it in place on top of the frame, not holding it down
just in place.

I not quite out in the boonies but Silver Springs is close.
 
UPDATE:

Got the unit out today, my neighbor had a motorcycle lift and it worked
just fine.  Took off the 100 or so screws, (just kidding), took the top
off (yes John I took a bunch of pics).  It was dirty, had been opened
before, fins were smashed......after cleaning it up I decided to
change out the output side bearing, two medium sized phillips bolts
hold it in, but I could not get them to budge....not a little..I sprayed
them with some wd40 and will try again in the am.  The unit looks
like all the others, has some rust on the output tunnel.

Anyway has anybody else had troulbe with these bolts?

Phelpo
 
phelpo said:
UPDATE:  .......two medium sized phillips bolts
hold it in, but I could not get them to budge....not a little..I sprayed
them with some wd40 and will try again in the am.  The unit looks
like all the others, has some rust on the output tunnel.  Anyway has anybody else had troulbe with these bolts?
Phelpo
Click to expand...
Ya, mine were super tight too.  But these are not medium size phillips, they are the large phillips.  If you haven't already rounded out the head, get a hex shaft phillips with the large cross-point.  Use a 1/4" box end wrench on the shaft for torque.  Push down hard and crank the wrench and they will snap loose.  If the head of these screws are already shot, I'd use a dremmel tool to grind off the head.

Don't you just hate it when a 2 min job becomes a project in itself :-\
 
Bill no kidding....I had a large phillips on it with a vise grip attahced, still would not move, now to the
5 lb sludge.....



Edit by John - substituted a family-friendly word for one that wasn't
 
phelpo said:
Bill no kidding....I had a large phillips on it with a vise grip attahced, still would not move, now to the
5 lb sludge.....
Click to expand...


Patience..finesse....no sledge. :)

Charlie



Edit by John:  Moved Charlie's reply out of the quote box
 
Phelpo,

My resonse was not to coorect speling... ;D

It was meant to offer emotional calmness and procedural techique stability. :)

Charlie
 
Charlie,  I am very calm, just kidding around.   

Update,  well the darn bolts on the output side would NOT come out, so  I looked
around the unit and it was only held in by two screws!!!  Undid those and took
the whole unit out.  Still could not get the darn screws loose  so I took a vise
grip  and  clamped the bottom of the screws and broke them loose.  At
first I thought I had broke the screw from the sound it made.  They must have
used Nasa lock tight.  I then could replace the bearing with the one Bill recomended.
This unit had some rust on the bottom of the air tunnel so I sanded and painted
it,

Nest came the input unit,  Bill was right about a tight fit, but he totally understated
the word "tight".  But it did  come out.  Now I knew how to loosen the bolts on the old
bearing and they came out without a hitch.    Replaced the bird cage and new
bearing, now I'll install it back into the unit sunday. 

Thanks for all your advise and help.

Phelpo
 
phelpo said:
Charlie,  I am very calm, just kidding around.   

Update,  well the darn bolts on the output side would NOT come out, so  I looked
around the unit and it was only held in by two screws!!!  Undid those and took
the whole unit out.  Still could not get the darn screws loose  so I took a vise
grip  and  clamped the bottom of the screws and broke them loose.  At
first I thought I had broke the screw from the sound it made.  They must have
used Nasa lock tight.  I then could replace the bearing with the one Bill recomended.
This unit had some rust on the bottom of the air tunnel so I sanded and painted
it,

Nest came the input unit,  Bill was right about a tight fit, but he totally understated
the word "tight".  But it did  come out.  Now I knew how to loosen the bolts on the old
bearing and they came out without a hitch.    Replaced the bird cage and new
bearing, now I'll install it back into the unit sunday. 

Thanks for all your advise and help.

Phelpo
Click to expand...

Great. We just did not want you to get all srewed up about a screw. ;D

I found same gunk & rust in my AC unit's cold air outlet too. Sanded and repainted that area with good brand of rust inhibitor paint.

Was the old bearing bad? Was the old bird cage cracked?

Charlie
 
Charlie, checked the bird cage and could not see any damage.  For the bearings I could not
tell if they were bad.  The exhaust one was real dirty.  Today I'm reinstalling after cleaning
everything.   

Did you guys test the unit with the lid off before replacing it back into the rig?

Phelpo
 
phelpo said:
Charlie, checked the bird cage and could not see any damage.  For the bearings I could not
tell if they were bad.  The exhaust one was real dirty.  Today I'm reinstalling after cleaning
everything.   

Did you guys test the unit with the lid off before replacing it back into the rig?

Phelpo
Click to expand...

I did not test it on the stand before reinstall.

Charlie
 
UP DATE:  The unit has been reinstalled, I ran it outside the rig and NO Rattle......
ya ya, don't know what was causing it to make that noise but it is gone.

After reviewing Bills pics and my unit, there really isn't much difference.  I do not
have the foam at the top, I have  sheet metal.  But when Bill says the blower is
a tight fit he was not kidding.  The sealed bearing should out live me and the
fan seem to have more power.

Thanks to all for your encouraging words and advise.

Phelpo
 
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