DonTom
Well-known member
Your linked message is about lead acid batteries. They do not compare well to lith batteries.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Bluebird makes its 400 th Electric School bus.
- Thread starter Viajeros
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Mountain high
Guest
A tree is a tree. My same thoughts about old batteries no matter what type they are. They're toxic and a fire danger just as gasoline is. Electric vehicles batteries are more recent than hybrids. Hopefully, as the vehicles age their older batteries don't become more hazardous.
www.greenmatters.com
"According to a new report shared by The Guardian, between March 2019 and March 2020, discarded lithium-ion batteries caused at least 250 fires at waste facilities across the U.K., accounting for more than a third of all the facilities' fires."
www.wired.com
"Lithium-ion batteries, like other electronics, are toxic, and can cause destructive fires that spread quickly—a danger that runs especially high when they are stored together. A recent EPA report found that lithium-ion batteries caused at least 65 fires at municipal waste facilities last year, though most were ignited by smaller batteries, like those made for cell phones and laptops. In SNT’s warehouse, bright red emergency water lines snake across the ceilings, a safeguard against calamity."
Why Can't You Throw Away Batteries? One Reason: Fires
Batteries should never be thrown away in the garbage — here are a few reasons why, plus a guide to recycling them properly.
"According to a new report shared by The Guardian, between March 2019 and March 2020, discarded lithium-ion batteries caused at least 250 fires at waste facilities across the U.K., accounting for more than a third of all the facilities' fires."
Cars Are Going Electric. What Happens to the Used Batteries?
Used electric vehicle batteries could be the Achilles' heel of the transportation revolution—or the gold mine that makes it real.
"Lithium-ion batteries, like other electronics, are toxic, and can cause destructive fires that spread quickly—a danger that runs especially high when they are stored together. A recent EPA report found that lithium-ion batteries caused at least 65 fires at municipal waste facilities last year, though most were ignited by smaller batteries, like those made for cell phones and laptops. In SNT’s warehouse, bright red emergency water lines snake across the ceilings, a safeguard against calamity."
Last edited:
The big droughts this summer were a result of "climate change". But do we blame fossile fuels for the much worse dust bowl 100 years ago before fossil fuels could have been the cause? Record breaking heat or cold that breaks record temperatures set in 1896 proves what? I'm old enough to remember when scientists said saccharin causes cancer, now they say saccharin actually kills cancer cells. Nitrates cause cancer, no they don't. Eggs and butter cause high cholesterol and heart attacks, no they don't. Vaccines cause autism in children, no they don't, lithium batteries will have 10x the capacity by 2000, never happened, etc. etc.The real story is follow the money. Science proves something and gets grant money. Soon after that a different scientist proves the opposite and gets grant money. The term "global warming" had to be changed because the predictions made 50 years ago never happened. Whereas the replacement name "climate change" is just people's perception so it can't be proven wrong. This kind of money grabbing science gives real science a bad bame.
DonTom
Well-known member
I am now a school bus driver. My route is about 25 miles AM and again in the PM. It is rural so I do get up to the legal speed (45 MPH) in some spots. I have volunteered to drive the first EV school bus for our district if this is pursued in our area.
DonTom
Well-known member
Have you driven a diesel bus in the past?
If you get your chance to drive it, I would like to hear how the EV bus compares to diesel.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Mountain high
Guest
Pay 3 to 4 times more for a bus that can travel 1/7th the distance. Is this the best choice for rural Maine especially during winter? Winter cold comes with traveling on snow covered roads. It reduces the range of all power vehicles including both electric and diesel buses.
www.cnbc.com
"ESBs are expensive: Battery-electric versions of small “Type A” school buses cost roughly $250,000, versus $50,000 to $65,000 for diesel; full-size “Type C” or “Type D” buses can range from $320,000 to $440,000 in electric form, versus about $100,000 for diesel."
Plus the charging infrastructure costs.
kerlinbus.com
"Although the mileage gap between electric buses and diesel buses should shrink in the coming years, the current gap is significant. Currently, diesel buses travel roughly seven times further on a single tank compared to a single charge."
Electric school buses are giving kids a cleaner, but costlier, ride to class
Electric school buses help the environment and are better for the children they carry, but they come with steep upfront costs.
"ESBs are expensive: Battery-electric versions of small “Type A” school buses cost roughly $250,000, versus $50,000 to $65,000 for diesel; full-size “Type C” or “Type D” buses can range from $320,000 to $440,000 in electric form, versus about $100,000 for diesel."
Plus the charging infrastructure costs.
Electric School Buses - Common Questions & Answers
Electric schools bus are becoming more and more common. But are they right for you? Get the answers to common questions.
kerlinbus.com
"Although the mileage gap between electric buses and diesel buses should shrink in the coming years, the current gap is significant. Currently, diesel buses travel roughly seven times further on a single tank compared to a single charge."
Last edited:
NY_Dutch
Well-known member
Global warming is... wait for it... a global phenomena, not a localized event affecting small areas of the planet. When the average temperature of the planet increases, the ocean currents that affect much of our weather shift more than normal, causing weather extremes in both directions.
The real story is follow the money. Science proves something and gets grant money. Soon after that a different scientist proves the opposite and gets grant money. The term "global warming" had to be changed because the predictions made 50 years ago never happened. Whereas the replacement name "climate change" is just people's perception so it can't be proven wrong. This kind of money grabbing science gives real science a bad bame.
You mentioned the dust bowl, so you might want to note that it was a man-made ecological disaster affecting ~150,000 square miles, not a natural event.
A Man-Made Ecological Disaster | The Dust Bowl | PBS LearningMedia
The Dust Bowl was the greatest man-made ecological disaster in the history of the United States. It encompassed a region 150,000 square miles long, across Oklahoma, the Texas Panhandles, and parts of Colorado, Kansas, and New Mexico. A combination of aggressive and poor farming techniques...
thinktv.pbslearningmedia.org
Mountain high
Guest
I had the Weather Channel on yesterday. Everything was about back east and their terrible weather. We're skipped entirely on 100% of their news. Climate change is a localized weather event per their news. Climate change sells. We're looking forward to up to 2 feet of snow! It won't be mentioned on the national news. Weather is not climate change. Our local forecast...
Winter Storm Warning
Start Tuesday, December 27, 5:00 PM MST
End Thursday, December 29, 5:00 AM MST
Source: U.S. National Weather Service
...WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 5 PM THIS AFTERNOON TO 5 AM MST THURSDAY... * WHAT...Heavy snow expected. Total snow accumulations of 10 to 20 inches with locally higher amounts of up to 2 feet. * WHERE...Grand and Battlement Mesas. * WHEN...From 5 PM this afternoon to 5 AM MST Thursday. * IMPACTS...Travel could be very difficult. A detailed map of the snowfall can be found at: www.weather.gov/gjt/winter.
Winter Storm Warning
Start Tuesday, December 27, 5:00 PM MST
End Thursday, December 29, 5:00 AM MST
Source: U.S. National Weather Service
...WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 5 PM THIS AFTERNOON TO 5 AM MST THURSDAY... * WHAT...Heavy snow expected. Total snow accumulations of 10 to 20 inches with locally higher amounts of up to 2 feet. * WHERE...Grand and Battlement Mesas. * WHEN...From 5 PM this afternoon to 5 AM MST Thursday. * IMPACTS...Travel could be very difficult. A detailed map of the snowfall can be found at: www.weather.gov/gjt/winter.
Last edited:
Isaac-1
Well-known member
With all due respect it is about choosing the right tool for the job, and rural Maine, North Dakota, etc. with long routes and -20F temperatures in the winter is probably never going to be the right place for electric buses. As to the range gap, it does not matter if the bus NEVER needs to travel that far in a given day, with 90% of school buses having a route length of under 40 miles, a bus with a 100 mile capacity should be more than enough for all but the most unexpected emergencies, ie 40 mile route with 100 mile bus range, even handles unexpected school closures when there is no time to recharge between the morning and afternoon route.
Mountain high
Guest
Sorry to cause you to yell "NEVER". No further discussion on this from me.
Mark_K5LXP
Well-known member
Not "never" but "always". Glaciers have covered several midwest states. There are seashells at the top of the mountain next to Albuquerque, so this was the bottom of a sea at some point. Volcanoes do not observe greenhouse gas emission limits. Not saying there is "zero" man made environmental impact, but much greater and far longer events have been happening since the planet formed, and will continue. Being responsible stewards of resources is the right thing to do, but there's only so many ways of engaging in the life western society has developed. Whatever problems technology may solve will only create an opportunity for more complex problems to surface.
Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
Maybe. But school busses don’t really travel that far. The ones on our town seem to be doing well in all conditions, and we just came thru another minus 28 cold snap with lots of snow. They don’t even fast charge them. They just use a 19.2 kw L2 clipper creek.Pay 3 to 4 times more for a bus that can travel 1/7th the distance. Is this the best choice for rural Maine especially during winter? Winter cold comes with traveling on snow covered roads. It reduces the range of all power vehicles including both electric and diesel buses.
Electric school buses are giving kids a cleaner, but costlier, ride to class
Electric school buses help the environment and are better for the children they carry, but they come with steep upfront costs.
"ESBs are expensive: Battery-electric versions of small “Type A” school buses cost roughly $250,000, versus $50,000 to $65,000 for diesel; full-size “Type C” or “Type D” buses can range from $320,000 to $440,000 in electric form, versus about $100,000 for diesel."
Plus the charging infrastructure costs.
Electric School Buses - Common Questions & Answers
Electric schools bus are becoming more and more common. But are they right for you? Get the answers to common questions.
"Although the mileage gap between electric buses and diesel buses should shrink in the coming years, the current gap is significant. Currently, diesel buses travel roughly seven times further on a single tank compared to a single charge."
Can’t speak for other regions but the price difference here as published by the school district is 150,000 for the diesel vice 350,000 for the electric. 60 percent less maintenance costs and of course hydro is cheap here.Pay 3 to 4 times more for a bus that can travel 1/7th the distance. Is this the best choice for rural Maine especially during winter? Winter cold comes with traveling on snow covered roads. It reduces the range of all power vehicles including both electric and diesel buses.
Electric school buses are giving kids a cleaner, but costlier, ride to class
Electric school buses help the environment and are better for the children they carry, but they come with steep upfront costs.
"ESBs are expensive: Battery-electric versions of small “Type A” school buses cost roughly $250,000, versus $50,000 to $65,000 for diesel; full-size “Type C” or “Type D” buses can range from $320,000 to $440,000 in electric form, versus about $100,000 for diesel."
Plus the charging infrastructure costs.
Electric School Buses - Common Questions & Answers
Electric schools bus are becoming more and more common. But are they right for you? Get the answers to common questions.
"Although the mileage gap between electric buses and diesel buses should shrink in the coming years, the current gap is significant. Currently, diesel buses travel roughly seven times further on a single tank compared to a single charge."
Charging infrastructure was less than 10,000 for the 4 clipper creek L2 19.2 KW EVSE’s. (We only have 2 electric busses as they are only replacing a couple every year). So far it’s working well on all seasons.
Last edited:
DonTom
Well-known member
Yep, we only cause it to happen faster.
I think the name change was because many would say it was record cold at wherever, not understanding even during global warming some places will get record cold temps. But such record cold temps have nothing to do with the world average temps.
And we could also say this has nothing to do with GW.
"Arctic records its hottest temperature EVER as mercury hits 100F."
Neither have anything to do with a world average temp. But too hot in the artic, for whatever reasons will cause ice to melt and that causes problems.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Last edited:
Isaac-1
Well-known member
My point above is that the typical school bus does not need a 500 mile range on a tank / charge, as perhaps the only time in its service life that it would ever travel 500 miles in a single day is when it was being delivered.
I said "I volunteered if this was pursued..." It may not happen. There is nothing in the works in our area but it is happening in Maine.Pay 3 to 4 times more for a bus that can travel 1/7th the distance. Is this the best choice for rural Maine especially during winter? Winter cold comes with traveling on snow covered roads. It reduces the range of all power vehicles including both electric and diesel buses.
Electric school buses are giving kids a cleaner, but costlier, ride to class
Electric school buses help the environment and are better for the children they carry, but they come with steep upfront costs.
"ESBs are expensive: Battery-electric versions of small “Type A” school buses cost roughly $250,000, versus $50,000 to $65,000 for diesel; full-size “Type C” or “Type D” buses can range from $320,000 to $440,000 in electric form, versus about $100,000 for diesel."
Plus the charging infrastructure costs.
Electric School Buses - Common Questions & Answers
Electric schools bus are becoming more and more common. But are they right for you? Get the answers to common questions.
"Although the mileage gap between electric buses and diesel buses should shrink in the coming years, the current gap is significant. Currently, diesel buses travel roughly seven times further on a single tank compared to a single charge."
I can start the ICE bus and "let it warm up" for 30 minutes and it will still not warm the bus this time of year until I drive it and put a load on it. I wonder how heating in an electric bus would compare?
It will be interesting to see how the total cost of the purchase, fuel, and maintenance costs will compare over a 10 year/100,000 mile lifespan. Rust is what kills them here.
Yes, I have driven both gas and diesel buses. Drove both in the same day last week. Same bus model/platform. All I could think of was the turtle (diesel Cummins) and hare (gas Ford V-10) race! I love diesel but I have to hand it to the V-10; it is pretty stout and doesn't throw the check engine "regen" lights and codes. The diesels in our area have been replaced by the gas versions for a few reasons, one being difficulty with regen on the diesels. It does not work well when you are in a lot of stop and go traveling.
whiteva
Well-known member
Who (or whom) will be the first to convert an electric bus to a skoolie camper?
