Calling all knowledgeable in weight specs! Confused as heck

[307 Tailgater]

Current truck 2013 ecoBEAST 3.5L Max Tow Package 3.73 axle 157" WB 4x4

Straight out of 2013 brochure:
Conventional Towing - Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight Ratings (lbs.)
GCWR = 17,100
Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight = 11,100
GVWR Truck = 7,700
Payload = 1840

This where it gets weird
Ford Trailer Towing Selector
F150 Conventional Towing
GCWR = 17,100
Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight = 11,100
Hitch Receiver Weight Capacity
Weight Carrying Max Trailer Capacity = 5,000
Max Tongue Load = 500
Weight-Distributing Max. Trailer Capacity = 11,300
Weight-Distributing Max Tongue Loaded = 1,130

Why did a weight distribution hitch allow for 6,300 (11,300-5,000) extra pounds for max trailer capacity? How does this play a factor with maximum loaded trailer weight(11,100)?

Why did weight distribution hitch allow for extra 630 (1,130-500) pounds for max tongue loaded?

Ford says "trailer tongue load weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight" Some of you educated me with 20% for fifth wheels which is the average of 15-25%. Should I stay safe and go with 15%? There's a HUUUGE (Donald Trump) difference between 10-15%. Example of what I created on a spreadsheet is 300-500 lbs. difference between 10% and 15% of trailer GVWR for bumper tows that I'm browsing.

 

[307 Tailgater]

I think I may have answered my own question.

The 1,130 lbs. for Weight Distributing Max Tongue Loaded is for hitch weight
10%-15% of trailer GVWR is for Payload
11,300 lbs. Weight Distributing Max Trailer Capacity is for max loaded trailer weight

Am I correct?

 

[TonyL]

I don't know about the sums, but remember that the maximum truck weight is 7700lb. That's for truck, all passengers, extras in the truck bed now that you're going down the bumper pull route. The total maximum train weight combined is 17100 lb. Take away the truck all up weight of 7700 leaves you 9400lb.
You still need to look at the sticker by the driver's door shut for the actual weights applicable to your specific truck. The brochure weights are only for guidance.
Whichever way you cut it, the F150 is not designed to comfortably tow a large travel trailer no matter how steady you want to drive.
It should be capable of a modest unit though, I'm afraid you need to pick a trailer and do all the calculations with actual figures. Please, don't listen to any sales staff about towing suitability, they won't be traveling with you.

 

[307 Tailgater]

I don't know about the sums, but remember that the maximum truck weight is 7700lb. That's for truck, all passengers, extras in the truck bed now that you're going down the bumper pull route. The total maximum train weight combined is 17100 lb. Take away the truck all up weight of 7700 leaves you 9400lb.
You still need to look at the sticker by the driver's door shut for the actual weights applicable to your specific truck. The brochure weights are only for guidance.
Whichever way you cut it, the F150 is not designed to comfortably tow a large travel trailer no matter how steady you want to drive.
It should be capable of a modest unit though, I'm afraid you need to pick a trailer and do all the calculations with actual figures. Please, don't listen to any sales staff about towing suitability, they won't be traveling with you.

Good to know on the sticker inside the door.

I'm looking at TT's that range between 6k-8.5k gvwr. w/ hitch weights 450-725.

 

[SpencerPJ]

I have a 2020 F150 Maxtow, shorter wheel base. So the payload, is that off your truck (yellow sticker) or out of a brochure? Very important question. Lets assume that you buy a trailer that after you have it loaded it weighs 7k. That will be roughly 1000# tongue weight, add a wdh, 100# = 1100#. Take your true payload, subtract all passengers and belongings in truck as it will be towing. Where does that leave you?

Here is an example of a payload sticker. My trucks payload is 1760#, and that often / usually is the limiting factor when assembling a 'what can I tow' formula.

 

[Larry N.]

I'm looking at TT's that range between 6k-8.5k gvwr. w/ hitch weights 450-725.

Depending on where you read them, those may be the hitch weight for an empty trailer. To have a steady trailer for pulling (no sway, etc.) you'll need a tongue weight that is at MINIMUM 10% of the trailer's weight as you are towing, and more is preferred, with 12-13% being excellent. So the load distribution of what's in your trailer is also important.

 

[Tom]

The total maximum train weight combined ...

For clarification, Train Weight is the UK term for Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). See our Glossary Of RV Terms - https://www.rvforum.net/resources/glossary-of-rv-terms.38/

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

'm looking at TT's that range between 6k-8.5k gvwr. w/ hitch weights 450-725.

That's another brochure number and not reliable. An RV trailer MUST have at least 10% of the actual trailer loaded weight on the hitch (tongue weight) or it will handle poorly on the highway. 12% is even better. For planning purposes, you should assume the tongue weight will be 10% of the trailer GVWR, thus about 850 lbs for that trailer you are considering.

RV brochures often show the tongue weight for an empty trailer, i.e. the weight as it leaves the factory. They don't know how much gear you will load into the trailer, so can't guess what it might weight after you load it up. It also would be the weight of a trailer without any optional equipment, and most units have at least a few things more than the bare-bones model.

 

[307 Tailgater]

I have a 2020 F150 Maxtow, shorter wheel base. So the payload, is that off your truck (yellow sticker) or out of a brochure? Very important question. Lets assume that you buy a trailer that after you have it loaded it weighs 7k. That will be roughly 1000# tongue weight, add a wdh, 100# = 1100#. Take your true payload, subtract all passengers and belongings in truck as it will be towing. Where does that leave you?

Here is an example of a payload sticker. My trucks payload is 1760#, and that often / usually is the limiting factor when assembling a 'what can I tow' formula.

Well that's a bunch of crap! Brochure for my truck says 1840 #'s for payload. My sticker says 1486 #'s. Should of went with a XLT rather than the Platinum!

How did you figure a loaded trailer of 7k is going to roughly have 1000# tongue weight? Did you take 14% of the 7000lbs?

 

[307 Tailgater]

That's another brochure number and not reliable. An RV trailer MUST have at least 10% of the actual trailer loaded weight on the hitch (tongue weight) or it will handle poorly on the highway. 12% is even better. For planning purposes, you should assume the tongue weight will be 10% of the trailer GVWR, thus about 850 lbs for that trailer you are considering.

RV brochures often show the tongue weight for an empty trailer, i.e. the weight as it leaves the factory. They don't know how much gear you will load into the trailer, so can't guess what it might weight after you load it up. It also would be the weight of a trailer without any optional equipment, and most units have at least a few things more than the bare-bones model.

Do I need to physically get these numbers off the trailer? The numbers I found come from Nada guides, are these accurate?

2013 Jayco Jay Feather Ultra Lite Series M-20 M Prices

2013 Jayco Jay Feather Ultra Lite Series M-20 M Specs and Standard Equipment | J.D. Power

www.nadaguides.com

Trailer	GVWR	Hitch	10% GVWR	15% GVWR
2017 Starcraft Launch Grand Touring 265RLDS	8950​	753​	895​	1342.5​
2012 Keyston Cougar 25RLSWE	7800​	630​	780​	1170​
2013 Keystone Cougar X-Lite 21RBS	7200​	580​	720​	1080​
2013 Jayco White Hawk 26DSRB	7250​	535​	725​	1087.5​
2015 Jayco Jay Flight 26RLS	8500​	725​	850​	1275​
2018 Kodiak Dutchmen M-233RBSL	7600​	635​	760​	1140​
2019 Keystone Passport 2200rbwe GT	6465​	452​	646.5​	969.75​
2015 Jayco Ultra Lite 23 RLSW	5995​	475​	599.5​	899.25​

 

[307 Tailgater]

So what's the difference between payload and hitch weight when considering a bumper tow?

 

[TonyL]

I'm guessing hitch weight is part of your payload, but I'll let the hitch guys confirm that.

 

[CharlesinGA]

The physical weight of the WDH (usually about 100 lbs) plus the actual tongue weight, or as Gary said, 10% of the Trailers GVWR all subtracts from the payload number of the truck. After subtracting that, what you have left is what you can carry in "stuff" in the truck plus people. You are pushing the numbers for sure. if you get anything over about 6K for a trailer.

Charles

 

[viceprice]

i am noticing from your door sticker that it looks like you have passenger tires (P275...) as the factory stock tires. I would want Light Truck (LT) fires when it comes to towing a TT. LT tires have a higher weight capacity, stiffer sidewalks (more plys likely 10 ply = harsher ride) and will have a higher recommended air pressure. You would also have to be sure the wheels (rims) are built sturdy enough to handle the extra air pressure and potential weight if going above your yellow door sticker payload number. LT tires would give you a little more margin that I mentioned in my earlier post.

I put LT tires on the rear of my 1970 Buick Estate station wagon when we loaded it with a family of 5 and a pop up camper I was pleased with the results. Conversely I just put P tires on my 1998 GMC Sierra k1500 because I went cheaper and I will not ever be hauling heavy loads with this truck plus I am not sure how much longer I will run it. Maybe it is the tire brand (Cooper) but I do not like the way it handles. It is "soft" and all over the road - very noticeable difference right out of the tire shop from the 10 ply LT tires that were on the truck previously and I am the only cargo!

 

[SpencerPJ]

figure a loaded trailer of 7k is going to roughly have 1000# tongue weight? Did you take 14% of the 7000lbs?

Personally, I carry some firewood in the inside door of my trailer that weighs a couple hundred. Every time someone actually goes to the scales and weighs their set-up, loaded for travel, seems they are always closer to the 13-14% range. Yes you can slim it down to 10-12%, for me, I like to have some margin to work with and not worry how much my wife is bringing and how she is packing.

Sorry about that payload, I was skeptical because I had to order my Lariat and deleted a few things (moonroof) etc to get a higher payload. It is a very common error and most in the industry don't get it. Hopefully you can find something that works.

 

[307 Tailgater]

i am noticing from your door sticker that it looks like you have passenger tires (P275...) as the factory stock tires. I would want Light Truck (LT) fires when it comes to towing a TT. LT tires have a higher weight capacity, stiffer sidewalks (more plys likely 10 ply = harsher ride) and will have a higher recommended air pressure. You would also have to be sure the wheels (rims) are built sturdy enough to handle the extra air pressure and potential weight if going above your yellow door sticker payload number. LT tires would give you a little more margin that I mentioned in my earlier post.

I put LT tires on the rear of my 1970 Buick Estate station wagon when we loaded it with a family of 5 and a pop up camper I was pleased with the results. Conversely I just put P tires on my 1998 GMC Sierra k1500 because I went cheaper and I will not ever be hauling heavy loads with this truck plus I am not sure how much longer I will run it. Maybe it is the tire brand (Cooper) but I do not like the way it handles. It is "soft" and all over the road - very noticeable difference right out of the tire shop from the 10 ply LT tires that were on the truck previously and I am the only cargo!

I have KO2's on. Them stock tires were crap!

 

[307 Tailgater]

Personally, I carry some firewood in the inside door of my trailer that weighs a couple hundred. Every time someone actually goes to the scales and weighs their set-up, loaded for travel, seems they are always closer to the 13-14% range. Yes you can slim it down to 10-12%, for me, I like to have some margin to work with and not worry how much my wife is bringing and how she is packing.

Sorry about that payload, I was skeptical because I had to order my Lariat and deleted a few things (moonroof) etc to get a higher payload. It is a very common error and most in the industry don't get it. Hopefully you can find something that works.

Have had the truck since 2015. I wanted max tow, she wanted the goodies.

 

[joester]

Does a trailers listed tongue weight include the weight of the 2 batteries up front that come standard with the trailer? Does it add in the weight of the propane inside of the 2 30# tanks? What about the weight of the electric jack as standard equipment? Thanks very much.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Does a trailers listed tongue weight include the weight of the 2 batteries up front that come standard with the trailer? Does it add in the weight of the propane inside of the 2 30# tanks? What about the weight of the electric jack as standard equipment? Thanks very much.

I will repeat: There is no defined standard as to what is shown as tongue or pin weight in a sales brochure or website spec sheet. Typically it includes the LP tanks, batteries, and any other standard equipment supplied by the factory for that model. The weight of actual propane is included in the trailer UVW (per federal regs), so it is probably also included in the corresponding tongue weight, but there is no guarantee of that. And sometimes the weight is for a "dry" (totally empty) trailer and sometimes it is an estimate for a partially or fully loaded trailer. Again, with no definition of just what is included or not.

 

[Rob&Deryl]

And to follow up on Gary’s comment, that is why we always suggest using a value calculated from GVWR.