Class C for the Man Cave Design Considerations

[Captain Morgan]

Hey folks, I could use your experience with my project.

As per my previous threads I'm looking for a floor plan to live in full-time and have my man cave and enough storage for clothes and other personal stuffs.

I've never settled on a floor plan, so many are so damned slideriffic and a deal killer. I want to have the "living area" a Home Theater with a recliner and my 75" Sony HDTV and some speakers.

Up till now I've looked at models around 28' - 30' where the seating and dinette were right across from each other to do the mods. I'd end up tearing the stock stuff out anyways.

So now to this . . . what if I were to buy a long floor plan like the Redhawk 26XD, Redhawk 29XK, Greyhawk 29W and then remove the furniture from the ONE slide (not bedroom!) and use that wall for storage, clothes etc and keep the slide IN. One advantage of these models is the additional counter space on the kitchen side.

Then I would mount a recliner in the middle of the floor facing back and mount my 75" Sony at the back wall facing forward, add some speakers etc.

I see motorhomes that have furniture mounts on the flooring. As long as I don't run a screw through the tank etc what would be the problem?

I think this would work for my purposes if I properly engineered and secured etc.

What comes to mind if you were to want to do the same project?

Thanks in advance for your advice and considerations!



.

 

[Isaac-1]

You really need to watch out for cargo carrying capacity when considering such things, almost all class C's are built on either the ford E350 (12,500 GVWR) or E450 (14,500 GVWR) chassis, which tends to mean they don't have much cargo carrying (weight) capacity left in the sizes around 30 ft and over.  So instead you might want to consider looking at a similar length class A, even most smaller 27-28 ft class A's are built on at least a 16,000 pound GVWR chassis, and often on 18,000, a few are even on 20,000 GVWR chassis.

My now 18 year old class A is on a 17,000 GVWR chassis, which means I have right at 3,000 pounds of cargo carrying capacity using the current OCCC calculation method, along with more sturdy construction , larger tanks, etc. compared to many similar length modern class C's which have 750-900 pounds OCCC weight carrying capacity.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Thanks for that boots on the ground info! Much appreciated.

I hear you about the weight, in the process of finalizing my downsizing.

So the weight thing, is that regarding the suspension or the torque against the transmission etc?

I'm replacing the suspension anyways and the new leaf springs will account for the vehicle plus additional weight.

 

[X-Roughneck]

Not alot to offer or sway, but I know my Aspect 30J  is a 32'.5"

Great Rig but the holding tanks are Way too small to live in permanently.  I guess it depends were you plan on calling home.

I guess if you are directly connected to the septic and city sourced water it would not matter though.

 

[SeilerBird]

I have been there, done that and got the t-shirt. My first man cave was a 27 foot class C. Way too small. Then I went up to a 27 foot class A (As have about 8 more feet of room inside over a C) and it was too small. So I went up to a 32 foot class A and that was too small. No slides on any of these.

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,52613.msg486734.html#msg486734

I finally decided after ten years of living on the road full time that it was time to park it permanently. I traded the A in and got a 32 foot fifth wheel with three slides and it has a great living room that I have turned into my man cave. I live by myself with three cats. I am a musician and I have a 55 inch 4k 3D TV and a 7.1 surround system. Plus I have a 88 note electric synthesizer grand piano, a set of electronic drums, a 200 watt Fender amp, a Les Paul, an 8 string ukulele, a bass ukulele and a micro size ukulele. Here are some photos of the fiver right after I bought it before I redesigned the interior. I will have to take some photos soon.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN2gikOLp9fa--u8fVJjRvLujCGZTdhGYrOU3fPa2MNEFKqNXW5jooDs9g4y6n2dQ?key=c0lhV3pBQnd3cmZsMi1MWjlfT2tpY3ZDanVrbGN3

 

[wae]

Thanks for that boots on the ground info! Much appreciated.

I hear you about the weight, in the process of finalizing my downsizing.

So the weight thing, is that regarding the suspension or the torque against the transmission etc?

I'm replacing the suspension anyways and the new leaf springs will account for the vehicle plus additional weight.

Those ratings are provided by the manufacturer of the chassis and are a combination of the weight ratings for the front and rear axles.  It has more to do with the chassis and suspension than the drivetrain - you'll find that the same engine and transmission from the E450 will be in an F53 chassis but the F53 will have a higher GVWR.  You'll also notice that the 5.4 and the 6.8 equipped E450s have the same weight ratings despite the additional torque available in the v10.  That doesn't mean that if you put 14,501 lpbounds (or 14,051 for the slightly older models) in the rig that it's going to snap in half.  Similarly, stronger springs don't remove weight from the unsprung components.  When you overload the chassis you're going to have a couple problems - some of them you can fix with suspension tweaks, most of them you cannot.  You're going to throw the balance of the vehicle off, especially if you overload one axle more than another - or if you stay under your total GVWR but have an axle overloaded.  The front should be good for 4,000+ and the rear 9000+.  Braking performance is going to be compromised.  The ride height of the vehicle will not be correct, although that is very easy to correct with springs.  Cornering performance (such that it is) will be further eroded, although you might be able to compensate with larger diameter sway bars, if they exist. 

The bigger problem, though, is that F=ma.  As you add mass to that side of the equation and start heading down the road, you will be generating more force that will be applied to the chassis.  What Ford is telling you through the GVWR is that their design specification accounted for a certain amount of force to be applied to the various components (primarily the unsprung ones) along with some margin of safety baked in.  Go over the design weight and now you're applying more force, and you're going to start breaking things.  Probably not right out of the gate, but my guess is that bushings will start failing prematurely, ball joints (already barely able to support the design load!) and wheel bearings will start to wear, tie rods will get notchy, body mounts will compress, and after enough time you could have metal fatigue on some of the stressed parts.

Also, if you're going down the road with more weight than the sticker from the factory says your GVWR allows, you're overloaded, full stop.  I have never seen a noncom put on the mobile scales, so that is not likely a problem that you'll run in to. 

All that said, though:  despite the fact that they build those rigs so close to (or sometimes over) the GVWR, it doesn't sound like you're going to be really adding all that much weight assuming that by "personal stuff" you don't mean "my collection of lead ingots from around the world".  Tearing out some interior furniture to replace it with a recliner and some shelving probably isn't going to really push the needle that much.  It wouldn't hurt to get a before and after weight as you go through your project just to make sure you haven't done anything drastic.  Don't make your shelves out of ironwood.  Your TV is probably about 90ish lpbounds, the recliner is about 120ish maybe?  Run with 25 fewer gallons of water and you've made that up. 

When you mount your recliner, go back to F=ma and think about the F that will be exerted upon you if the rig comes to a very sudden stop and the m-times-a of the recliner results in more F than the screws - or what the screws are screwed in to - can handle.  You might think about mounting it to the floor with some lag bolts and maybe a metal backing plate on the underside. 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

In my opinion a Class C is a poor choice for your requirements. Even a 31-32 foot model lacks a large interior space, a decent GVWR (chassis limitation), and adequate storage for full time living plus a lot of toys.  A Super-C (built on a medium truck chassis) would probably be ok, but a smaller Class A seems the best choice. Should have more storage (including some basement), a wide flat interior space once you remove some furniture, and a hefty GVWR to carry your gear.

Here is an article describing some of the smaller Class A's, but I suspect you are going to want 30-34 feet to have a comfortable man cave area plus a modest kitchen and decent size bath and bed.

https://smallrvlifestyle.com/shortest-class-a-rvs/

 

[X-Roughneck]

All that said, though:  despite the fact that they build those rigs so close to (or sometimes over) the GVWR, it doesn't sound like you're going to be really adding all that much weight assuming that by "personal stuff" you don't mean "my collection of lead ingots from around the world".   

rig comes to a very sudden stop and the m-times-a of the recliner results in more F than the screws - or what the screws are screwed in to - can handle.  You might think about mounting it to the floor with some lag bolts and maybe a metal backing plate on the underside.

I use to have a collection of lead life preservers I would carry everywhere in case I wanted to go swimming. 

I gave them away. 

Too much baggage to carry.

Its all good, until something goes really bad. 

Have fun everybody...Be safe out there.

JD

 

[Captain Morgan]

Thanks for the concise explanations!

The whole front axle and suspension will be replaced with heavier and over-sized brakes etc, but like said probably not the ball joints.

A shorter C on a 450 could give me an advantage on the weight ratio.

I have to weigh the rig to know how much to tune the suspension for (leaf springs, shocks etc) and anticipated doing this as a matter of personal items capacity planning.

I'm already very downsized and I want a C for the camping mod, can't do this on an A. I got rid of 90% of everything I own and will just work my life around the rig, not rig around my belongings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QtjiwSiZY4

Since I'll still be working full time and not home much, I don't foresee the tanks being an issue. I'll still be in the city area.

Roger the lag bolts and plates \ washers etc . . . it's a given that's the right way to go.

 

[TheBar]

It isn't just the frame and suspension, many Class C's have tires very close to their maximum weight rating. Many Class A tires have twice the weight ratings of the Class C light truck tires.

 

[scottydl]

I am a musician and I have a 55 inch 4k 3D TV and a 7.1 surround system. Plus I have a 88 note electric synthesizer grand piano, a set of electronic drums, a 200 watt Fender amp, a Les Paul, an 8 string ukulele, a bass ukulele and a micro size ukulele.

Once this discussion is over, anyone else up for a jam session at Tom's place? ;D

 

[SeilerBird]

Once this discussion is over, anyone else up for a jam session at Tom's place? ;D

You are all welcome. ;D

 

[Alaskansnowbirds]

I have to weigh the rig to know how much to tune the suspension for (leaf springs, shocks etc) and anticipated doing this as a matter of personal items capacity planning.

Changing springs, shocks, etc. does not change the GVWR. It also does not change the capacity of all the components below the springs. The axles, brakes, tires etc all have a rating that figures into the GVWR.

You can take a 1/2 ton pickup and put 1 ton springs on it and it's still a 1/2 ton pickup. The GVWR doesn't change.

You, as an individual, can not change the GVWR of a vehicle. The GVWR listed on the sticker on the door post is the max weight that vehicle can carry no matter what mods have been done.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

What Don says is true, but legally irrelevant for a private vehicle. The owner can fiddle with it any way he pleases and is not required to stay within the official GVWR. And he can overload the original GVWR just as easily as a modified one and nobody is going to stop him. He may get sued if things go badly wrong, but that's a civil matter.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Yes I get it, I know what the weights and specs are, I'm not hauling another 2000 lbs of crap around. I got rid of 90% of my stuff, moved in here with a 15' uhaul and more than halved it again. I'll be fine.

 

[dufferDave]

....... I want to have the "living area" ....... with a recliner ........

How are you gonna get a recliner through the coach door?  (Mine is barely big enough to walk through, I have no idea how you are gonna move furniture through there)

 

[X-Roughneck]

Once this discussion is over, anyone else up for a jam session at Tom's place? ;D

I want to know if Tom/SB ever did "a Paul Stanley-smash" at the end of the show with a ukulele? 

Some may have to Google Paul Stanley and Kiss.   

That man was hard on some guitars for sure.  He had some remodeling skills for sure, so might have been a great RVr if that singing gig didn't work out.

He probably has to get a stage Roadie to swing the Axe now days.  ;D

I see the Beatles Reference...my twin Sisters are 71, so thru osmosis...I got that 60s sound track in my head, mixed with my Classic Rock and of Course My Hank Williams Jr. 

 

[SeilerBird]

I want to know if Tom/SB ever did "a Paul Stanley-smash" at the end of the show with a ukulele? 

No chance. I keep all my instruments in perfect mint condition.

 

[Captain Morgan]

How are you gonna get a recliner through the coach door?  (Mine is barely big enough to walk through, I have no idea how you are gonna move furniture through there)

I asked the RV dealership the same question! How does anyone get furniture in and out of an RV? They say they know. I see threads here and there on the net about replacing stock furniture with better theater seating so I know it can be done. Magic dust.

 

[Isaac-1]

Most RV furniture is built on metal frames which bolt together in place, and breaks down into components small enough to fit out the door.  Though occasionally for larger items such as refrigerators, windows must be removed to get them in and out.