Close to making an offer--scared to death

[boaterkathy]

We are thinking about making an offer on a 2009 Class C Fleetwood Tioga 31M.    We are scared to death.  The dealer looked at our boat today.  A friend of ours who knows some dealers and has owned 7 RV's checked on the actual dealer cost.  Any ideas on how much above his cost the dealer might go??
We have been in the same marina for 17 years and owned 3 boats together, but I think it is time to make a change.  Our small cruiser is getting smaller the older we get.  We would still have a little 15 foot Triumph center console, so we could zip around the Mississippi, so it won't be a complete break from boating.  I don't think we would ever do that. 
We WILL love the RV lifestyle, won't we?  It is just scary to make the change, but if we are going to do it, now is the time.  I know maybe buying new isn't the smartest, but we can't fix ANYTHING ourselves, plus this would be an easy way to get rid of the boat.  I have been wanting one for a couple years, but of course now that we are so close, I am getting nervous!!  Is this just normal?  It's a lot of money!

 

[scottydl]

You WILL love the RV lifestyle.  Well probably.    It's not all that different from overnight boating I'd think, except campgrounds have more of a community feel than when you're sitting out on the water all alone.

Buying new is probably not the smartest financial decision, and be forewarned that it doesn't mean nothing will break either.  You will be covered by a warranty, but most RV factory coverage is only 1-2 years (compared to 3-5 years for cars).  Consider buying 2-5 years old and purchasing an extended warranty... that way you'd have the value of a used unit and still get all the repair coverage you need.  Just an idea! 

 

[Frizlefrak]

I'm with Scotty.  A new rig is a LOT of money for something you're not certain you're going to love.  And be forewarned....new RV's depreciate badly the first few years.  If you want to get your feet wet in RVing, I suggest finding a good quality, well cared-for unit somewhere in the 5 year old range.  Try it out for a couple of years and see how it fits your lifestyle.  If you find, like most of us did, that RVing is quite addicting, you can always sell it and trade up....probably for close to what you paid for it.  Likewise, if you don't care for RVing, you can unload the rig without taking a serious depreciation hit.

But I'm betting that once you've tried it, you'll be hooked.  And all buying new will get you is a warranty....it doesn't guarantee nothing will break.  And for 30% of the cost of new, you can do a LOT of repairs....especially if you learn to fix the minor stuff yourself.

Have fun whatever you decide.

 

[boaterkathy]

Thanks both of you. 
Our problem is getting rid of our boat.  We are in a small area, and it would be hard to get rid of it quickly around here.  We do not have a trailer, and the boat is 10 feet wide, so permits would be needed to move it.  If we don't get rid of it before fall, we get stuck with paying storage fees, cleanup, insurance, etc. for the winter.  We can't do anything without getting rid of the boat first.  The dealer who has the Fleetwood Tiogas and Lexingtons we looked at is right in town where we keep our boat and only 25 miles from our home.  AND he will probably take our boat as a tradein, which is important for us.  There are just a lot of reasons that make it really handy for us to trade with that dealer.  He might have a used Lexington coming in, but the beds in the Lexingtons are only doubles  , and we really want a queen.    My husband hates dealing etc., so wouldn't be into doing it more than once.  I am the one who has done most of the figuring(dealing) etc. so far, and I also did it on all our boats in the past.  So we need to get the RV we really want the first time. : 

I don't worry too much that we would love RVing.  Our boat is basically a camper that floats. Our dock was like a big family who grilled and partied together.  Unfortunately several have left the dock now because of age or getting RV's themselves.  We have done our traveling up and down the Mississippi in the past.  Now we just want to take our "camper" along with us when we travel.  It would be great for traveling with our small dog, and I hate living out of suitcases .  We are used to cooking our meals when at the boat, so nothing would change there, except it would be a little easier.  Having an oven would be awesome! ;D

 

[Mike Goad]

We were in a similar situation a couple of weeks ago -- except we we trading a two year old 5th wheel that was worth less than we owed.  We would have been hardpressed to get what we wanted in a used vehicle given our circumstances, so I certainly understand where you are at. 

I hope things work out as well for you as it has, so far, for us.

For various reasons, the 5th wheel wasn't a good "fit" for us and we weren't going to be camping much if we kept it and wouldn't be able to go to the places we prefer going.  We found a small new motorhome we liked and made an offer.

We were scared to death that it wouldn't be accepted -- and it wasn't.  The salesman told us that the dealership owner couldn't do the deal because we owed too much on the 5er.  We knew going in that we would likely need some money down and had set money aside specifically for this, so we made another offer.  It was accepted.  ;D

From that point until we went up to take delivery, neither of us got a decent night's sleep.  We were both afraid that somehow the deal would fall through..., or that the dealership would turn down our camper when they saw it. 

I fixed several minor problems and took a day off from work so that I could finish cleaning the outside of the camper.

As far as I can tell, they didn't even take a look at the 5er. 

We have slept pretty good now that we have our new motorhome at home. (see Downsized from high profile 5th wheel to low profile class C )

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

So we need to get the RV we really want the first time.

Good luck, but I feel it necessary to warn you that hardly anyone ever does.  

If you have some idea of the wholesale value of your boat (not retail and not trade-in on another boat) you can figure your deal on the Tioga pretty closely. Take the MSRP of the Tioga (make sure it is the factory MSRP and not a dealer generated sticker price) and subtract 25% for a discount, then subtract the wholesale value of your boat. That would be an excellent deal. 20% discount would be fairly good deal and anything less than 15% is a mediocre deal. Expect the dealer to offer a 10-14% discount initially.  I also suspect he will go low on the wholesale value of the boat, given that boat resales are a risky in the best of times and this is certainly not the best of times for selling boats (or RVs either).

Generally the dealer will not break out "discount" vs "trade-in", so it will be up to you to figure out what is is giving you for your boat. With the trade-in and discount rolled together, it sounds as though you are getting something halfway decent for the trade, but once you subtract the typical discount percentages you realize you are probably getting next to nothing. Before talking deal, think long and hard about the absolute worse case amount you would accept for the boat before walking away from the deal.  Or, alternatively, selling the boat yourself. If you are only getting 50% of its low retail value in trade, it may not be as hard as you think to sell it privately because you can offer it at a steeply discounted price and still get more than the trade value.

 

[ArdraF]

Kathy,

Having been boaters ourselves, I can sure understand your trepidation at making this change.  We too went through the Boat vs. RV dilemma.  That was 35 years ago and we've never looked back.  One reason we like RVing so much is the flexibility.  With a boat you're bound by where the water goes.  With an RV you can always find a road that goes somewhere - and often it's new and different.  Obviously we're here on the RV Forum so this is a lifestyle we love.  I'm sure you will too once you make the decision.

ArdraF

 

[boaterkathy]

Thanks so much for all the support and advice!   I will feel much better once the decision is made.  We leave on Friday to head out to Colorado for about a week.  I sure hope we have things decided by then so I can relax(maybe)  : and not have to agonize over a decision.  Of course, if the decision is made and we have done it, I will probably be second guessing the decision then. :  
I'll keep you posted on what we end up doing.    I really appreciate all the advice and the friendliness of the 4M!

 

[boaterkathy]

Well, we went to the dealer today, and the new Tioga, as beautiful as it is, is just too much money for us. 

We are going back tomorrow to make a final deal on the 2006 Forest River Lexington 283 GTS that has a little over 8,000 miles.  More in our price range and being more aerodynamic should get better gas mileage.  The bed is smaller, and I don't like the bathroom as well, but I am sure we will be OK.  The couch in the Lexington is much bigger and nicer than in the Tioga, though, which was a plus.    We leave for Colorado on Friday, not on the RV though, so will have to wait till we get home to get it.

I have had a pounding headache all day!!   Must be the stress!

Here's a link to the dealer's pictures, if anyone is interested....

http://www.brownsrvonline.com/lex06ts283a8129a.htm

I'm sure we will have some questions in the future.   :


[edit]Made URL clickable[/edit]

 

[KodiakRV]

Nice looking rig! 

One word of caution, however -- a cargo carrying capacity (CCC) of 569 lbs is not a lot of capacity if you are going to be living in it full time. 

I'm also puzzled as to why the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is blank.  Unless that means towing anything is not allowed.

 

[boaterkathy]

Hi KodiakRV,
No we won't be living in it full time.  Just using it for some trips and some stays down by the Mississippi.  We are so clueless right now that we don't know what most of the stuff means.  Hope it doesn't mean we can't tow something.  We wouldn't right away probably, but might want to some time down the road.  Have to ask about that.    Thanks for mentioning it.
Kathy

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The Lexington has proven very popular with the weekend camper set and most owners are very happy, so I hope you will be too. I'll bet it looks really roomy compared to your boat!

The Carry Capacity (569 lbs) is very low and that is going to be a problem for you on extended trips. With some water and propane on board, you will be pushing the limits before you add very much food, clothing and gear.  Fortunately there are just two of you, so you gain back some capacity through a reduction in the SCWR, which is based on 4 people at 154 lbs each (616 lbs total). That probably gives you 200-300 lbs more.

Good luck!!!!

 

[boaterkathy]

Thanks Gary,
I always got kidded a lot because I had so much stuff on the boat. :  Guess I will have to watch it on this, too.  Gee, I should probably lose some weight, too! :-[

Is it really a problem if you go over the weight a little bit?
Kathy

 

[modell]

I think that's one of the best looking "C's" I've seen in a long time. Very roomie with nice looking fixtures etc.  I think you'll be very happy with your new rig!

 

[Marsha/CA]

Hi Kathy,

Sure looks like a nice rig.  Re your question as to whether it matters if the rig is overweight a bit; often I feel we are a bit over zealous about the amounts trailers weight, overloading etc; but for good reason.  Maybe it is OK if we are a slight bit over the limitations.  But you will always add more to what you are carrying over time, it just seems to creep up. 

However, it does make a difference if the rig is overweight.  For one thing, it will handle differenly if it's over loaded.  Second, things work harder, thus wear out more quickly if over weight.  But for me the most important factor is if I'm in an accident, I can almost guarantee the other party will try to find any means to make it my fault, even if it isn't.  So being overweight would give them a factor to consider.

Just some things to keep in mind.

Marsha~

 

[ArdraF]

Hi Kathy,

To add to Marsha's comment, yes weight is important.  The tires and axles have to carry the weight and extra pounds mean you stress those tires and axles.  When tires are overloaded, you can have a blowout which can cause considerable damage to the RV's undercarriage and has the potential of causing an accident which is what Marsha was alluding to when she talked about liability.  So that Cargo Carrying Capacity is very important.  Motorhomes, for example, are built to have specific load limits on each axle.  The front axle might have an allowable weight of 10,000 pounds and the rear axle might have another 10,000 pounds making your entire allowable weight 20,000 pounds.  Reputable RV manufacturers are careful to design their RVs so they don't exceed the allowed axle weights.  This means they have to have floor plans to even out the loads.  Things like engines, the chassis itself, refrigerators, slides, ranges, and the like all figure into the numbers they have to design toward in a floor plan.  By the way, those of us who want to make sure we aren't overloading our motorhomes go to truck weighing stations so we know how much our vehicles actually weigh when loaded.  Some RV rallies also have portable weighing stations where you can have each wheel weighed.  If you have this done it's good to go when starting a trip because that presumably is when the RV is at its fullest with food, water, tools, passengers, etc.  A lot of engineering goes into making our rolling homes safe!

ArdraF

 

[boaterkathy]

Thanks everyone!  Wow!    So much to learn and remember!! It will take us a while to get everything straight!  We sure are excited though!!! ;D ;D ;D
I know I will have to learn to travel lightly.  I will be back here with lots of questions!!

 

[PancakeBill]

Is the tioga going to be a lot more?  Might want to suck it up and go the extra.  I know that floorplan and I am prettty sure I know the Lex as well.  The Lex does have a nicer couch, but the Tioga is a much nicer overall layout. 

Thing with boats as trades, get the trade in value from the book and subtrract a local percentage.  Typically the dealer will get a call on the boat.  IPOW, he will call local dealers who make an offer.  The dealer will typically give you all of it, he just wants to make the deal. 

Then he will discount his, subr\tract out the boat, add in tax etc and there you go.

Tioga has a better CCC as well.  If you don't get it now, you will trade for it later.

 

[boaterkathy]

The Tioga was going to be over $20,000 more.  Just not in our budget, plus it would have meant higher sales tax, more expensive for gas....etc.  I would have loved the Tioga, but we just weren't able to do it now.  Maybe some day, though, if they get a used Tioga on the lot....well you never know.    ;D 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I don't think I would pay $20k more for the Tioga either, but you could get a Tioga for less $ if it weren't for the boat deal. You're kind of stuck, having to do business with somebody who will take the boat in trade on an RV. You have no leverage in that situation, so you just have to do what you can and pray that it works out as you hope.