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DonTom

DonTom

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Joined
Apr 21, 2005
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13,794
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Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
I don't think I would take this one for free--seems rather useless to me, mainly because:

"86-kWh battery configuration provides a range of 125 miles while powering on-board systems. "

Only 86 KWHs in an E-RV is a joke. My Tesla M3 battery is 70 KWH. They need about 350 KHWs of battery in an E-RV just to be reasonable.

IMO, they need at least four times the battery, just to start to get serious.

~1.5 miles per KWH in small motorhome. Until they can start with at least 350 KWH batteries (~500 mile range) they shouldn't expect to sell many.

But as I have said before, I don't expect to live long enough to see a decent E-RV on the road with a decent enough charging Infrastructure to make it a reasonable option.

I don't buy:

". This range will meet the needs of a majority (54%) of new RV buyers who prefer to make trips under 200 miles (1)."

Unless they are only talking about their very first trip!

-Don- Reno, NV
 
DonTom said:
seems rather useless to me,
Click to expand...
Winnebago Industries Reveals e-RV, All-Electric Motorhome Concept

Do you not understand what a concept vehicle is? They are rarely ever practical when first shown but only introduce a concept for possible development in the future. The automotive industry has shown concept cars in shows, fairs, and other large gatherings for years and some do get to market while others do not. Winnebago has been sending an engineering team to the Escapee rallies for the past 5 years now and this year the also showed some new RV models with changes that were developed as a result of these discussions with RV users. They didn't bring the concept RV that you are referring to but they did talk about it in the discussion groups to get a feel for the amount of interest in the RV community. At this time there is no projected date for marketing an electric motorhome but they do continue to study it.
 
Concept vehicle or not, I despise the way the proponents of electric vehicles claim they are “zero emission” vehicles. They are NOT zero emission vehicles, and to claim that they are is an outright lie. All they do is move the emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack at the power plant, and that doesn’t even consider what emissions and other pollution components are involved in manufacturing the batteries.

If these folks would be honest about things, I might listen to their pitch. But as soon as I see “zero emissions” I tune out. Just more snake oil salesmen.
 
Kirk said:
Do you not understand what a concept vehicle is?
Click to expand...
I sure do. It means it doesn't yet exist. And I agree with what you're saying.

I can recall when the Harley Livewire was a "concept". Then they said it would be with a 7 KWH battery. By the time it was actually built, many years later, it had a 15.5 KWH battery.

But one of the problems with an E-RV is that battery to make it useful in the USA will be so heavy it will reduce the range from what it really should be. 350 KWHs of battery would be several thousands of pounds--enough weight to reduce the range and have other issues from all the weight. But OTOH, it will have the torque to get speeding tickets going uphill on the freeways.

BTW, they do have E-RVs for sell right now in Europe, just not in the USA. In fact, they have a few different models to choose from that they can buy today. Perhaps are more practical in most places in Europe. Not so much for the USA.

BTW, I am glad my 11th motorcycle, the Energica Experia, is no longer a concept. I have mine on order, expected to have it the first week of September. In fact, I don't think it was made public as a "concept". They kept very quiet about this one. They were very sneaky about it, unlike the Harley LW. The Experica they announced about two weeks before it could be ordered. I ordered mine on the first day possible to order --and I cleaned out my garages a bit more for the room. I decided to NOT trade any bikes in. The Experica exists in Europe (made in Italy), but not yet in the USA. The USA dealers should get demo models this month.

I wonder if this compulsion to buy motorcycles can be considered a disease. :) I know others with the same "disease" but are more limited with the room in their garages to keep the disease in check. I have six garages full of room for motorcycles.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
A Traveler said:
Concept vehicle or not, I despise the way the proponents of electric vehicles claim they are “zero emission” vehicles. They are NOT zero emission vehicles, and to claim that they are is an outright lie. All they do is move the emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack at the power plant, and that doesn’t even consider what emissions and other pollution components are involved in manufacturing the batteries.

If these folks would be honest about things, I might listen to their pitch. But as soon as I see “zero emissions” I tune out. Just more snake oil salesmen.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY, Same with wind and solar.
 
A Traveler said:
They are NOT zero emission vehicles,
Click to expand...
It means no "tailpipe emissions" and that is 100% true.

I doubt it man can produce anything that is not harmful to the environment, but some answers are a lot better than others. None are prefect.

But an EV is around 70% efficient. An ICE vehicle is less than 30% efficient. That means 70% wasted in heat and pollutions out of the tail pipe instead of 30% being wasted and controlled better elsewhere.

BTW, this becomes a bit tricky. Even if an EV is charged by a gas or diesel generator, the EV can still more efficient than running a vehicle direct from gasoline / diesel. The reason is the steady speed of the generator, unlike the gas car that pollutes the most as the speed is varied.

Some of that is explained here.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
My take is until we see E-RV's with over a 300 mile daily range, preferably 400 mile we are not going see widespread adoption. Sure I can picture people in certain areas that only ever drive their RV's 125-150 miles, and primarily use them for long weekend outings, I am envisioning perhaps people that live in the New England states, or perhaps places like Denver or Colorado Springs where they live on the high plateau right next to the mountains. In general places that have ample diverse camping options within a couple of hours drive time, unlike where I live in western Louisiana where it seems one has to drive at least 150 miles to find a nice campground that is not located on a bass fishing lake.
 
I've been waiting a long time now for that 300 mile range EV. I think that is still pretty far down the road. And we still have areas where Electricity is being generated by Coal and Oil. We still have a way to go to that zero emission goal.
But, then, every step we take in the right direction is worth taking.
 
Isaac-1 said:
My take is until we see E-RV's with over a 300 mile daily range, preferably 400 mile we are not going see widespread adoption.
Click to expand...
Some say the same with electric motorcycles. But range should NOT be important when we have the charging infrastructure. It usually takes twice as long to charge a battery twice the size at the same charge station.

Not a whole lot of difference in charging for half the time, but twice as often. The real issue is getting from one charge station to the next. Need the range for that, otherwise it makes little difference. Except when first leaving from a home charge where you get that better range to your first charge stop with a larger battery.

But I would like to see at least a 425 mile range in an E-RV. My new RV has an average 680 mile range. That is the range I prefer in an RV, but I would settle for 425 miles, which will match my Y2K RV range.

And that is only if I can charge every few hundred miles or so.

Maybe if I was 50 years younger, I could see a decent E-RV and Infrastructure by the time I retire.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
A Traveler said:
Concept vehicle or not, I despise the way the proponents of electric vehicles claim they are “zero emission” vehicles. They are NOT zero emission vehicles, and to claim that they are is an outright lie. All they do is move the emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack at the power plant, and that doesn’t even consider what emissions and other pollution components are involved in manufacturing the batteries.

If these folks would be honest about things, I might listen to their pitch. But as soon as I see “zero emissions” I tune out. Just more snake oil salesmen.
Click to expand...
In an ICE vehicle they attach a hose to the exhaust to measure emissions, where would one attach one an EV?
 
RNS said:
We keep reading about the power grid being stressed brownouts etc. HMMM Lets plug some more crap into it.
Click to expand...
When I read stuff like this I think of President Kennedy saying that the US would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. At the time he said that there were so many parts, pieces and technology that didnt even exist when he made the statement, but he had faith that we would be able to solve the problems involved and succeed putting on man on the moon.
If it were up the EV naysayers, they would have said it was impossible, and not even try to put a man on the moon.
 
RNS said:
We keep reading about the power grid being stressed brownouts etc. HMMM Lets plug some more crap into it.
Click to expand...
Has never happened because of EVs and probably never will. Very little charging of EVs is done at the peak times. Most charge EVs at around midnight at home, when all other usage is very, very low. They have EV plans to encourage such. I can plug in at the peak time, but my charge will not start until 0015 hrs.

The big problem is hot days when everybody wants to turn on their A/C units at about the same time. Rarely are many EVs charging up at that time.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
I am talking about things like detuning an engine to get emissions to comply with the EPA mandates for specific compounds, while at the same time resulting in total higher levels of emissions, or putting in place policies that do nothing to lower emissions, and instead just get industries to move to countries with more lax emission standards. See the lack of printed circuit board manufacture in the US for the last 20+ years as example. The production of printed circuit boards did not get any more environmentally friendly it just moved to where it could continue without excess regulation.
 
Isaac-1 said:
, while at the same time resulting in total higher levels of emissions, or putting in place policies that do nothing to lower emissions,
Click to expand...
That reminds me of when I removed the carb from my old 1970's RV and installed MPFI. Just because it has been changed, it would fail in CA, even though it was then much cleaner.

But no problem, I just registered it in NV. While I have many vehicles with CA plates, none of them require a smog check because they are all either motorcycles or an EV car.

Also, my Y2k RV will not pass a CA smog check. It would NOT pass the day it was built into an RV, because the C. Converters had to be moved back in the RV design where they would no longer get hot enough. I have posted many messages in this forum about that many years ago.

No problem. It is now registered in NV. CA loses. It passes every time here in NV as is.

One of the reasons I purchased my new RV here in NV is because of all the CA BS. CA loses again.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
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