JerArdra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2005
- Posts
- 1,814
Okay, good point! I will.
JerryF
JerryF
EBay seller will not honor auction - advice
- Thread starter patlewis
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
papahog
Well-known member
5 Star rating would be my decision as well. All is well that ends well. To do other than give the highest rating would not be a good end to this transaction.
I will be juror number 2. ;D
I will be juror number 2. ;D
Tom
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2005
- Posts
- 51,985
The jury is ignoring (or has forgotten) the killer bee story. I too want you guys on my jury.
"Making it right" in this case is accepting that one has made a mistake, but also that one has lied and been exposed for that lie. This is clearly a "I goofed, then screwed up, and I'd better go through with my contractual obligations or I could be sued. PR is a disaster, so let's try to salvage it".
The above doesn't diminish my "respect" for the dealer following through, but let's not make him a saint.
"Making it right" in this case is accepting that one has made a mistake, but also that one has lied and been exposed for that lie. This is clearly a "I goofed, then screwed up, and I'd better go through with my contractual obligations or I could be sued. PR is a disaster, so let's try to salvage it".
The above doesn't diminish my "respect" for the dealer following through, but let's not make him a saint.
carson
Well-known member
The reason Nelson came through--- he was trapped. He tried but lost. Yet he lucked out from a potential disaster.
IMHO, carson.
IMHO, carson.
Karl
Moderator Emeritus
Before nominating for sainthood as Tom mentioned, let's put the foo on the other shoot for a second. What do you suppose Nelson RV would have done if the auction closed and the final bid was $50,000; the bidder having really meant $15,000. Does anyone seriously think Nelson would have said to the buyer "No, that's way too much money. We won't take any more than $30,000."? I think not.
Tom
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2005
- Posts
- 51,985
If I were the dealer, I would want to bury this story and not hold it up as an example of my integrity.
Ratings on eBay are Positive, Neutral, and Negative. I'd give him a "Neutral" rating and in the comments say that he originally tried to back out of the deal but, in the end, did the right thing and sold the item for the bid price. He should not be given the same Positive feedback you'd give someone who sold an item without any "bee stories" or attempts to get out of the deal. That makes for a misleading feedback score.
I guess this means you guys don't want me on your jury???
Wendy
Colorado River SP
I guess this means you guys don't want me on your jury???
Wendy
Colorado River SP
Ron
Moderator Emeritus
Right on Wendy. While the dealer did finally do the right thing he also tried a dodge tatic. I don't think he should be given a negative but niether do I think he should be given the gold star either. Neutral is good enough. Guess I won't be on the jury either.
S
seilerbird
Guest
I would give him a big negative. He is about as dishonest as they come. The only reason he did the right thing was because he was forced into it.
JerArdra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2005
- Posts
- 1,814
JerArdra said:
Hey Guys and Gals...My primary reason for this would be to make me feel better, not him. When you forgive, you forget and stress as well as long term bad feelings diminish thus clearing anger.
JerryF
S
seilerbird
Guest
Forgiving and forgetting is a good thing to do. Giving positive feedback to someone who deserves negative is not forgiving and forgetting, it is lying. The purpose of the feedback system is not to make you feel good, it is to accurately describe your transaction for others who are considering doing business with him. Anyone who lies as much as he did does not deserve positive feedback or even neutral. It does a big disservice to potential future buyers.
I wanted to make some final comments on this matter that I feel is now fully resolved. I apologize if this gets interpreted as being self-serving, as that is not my intention. I just know that many people, with various opinions, have been following this bizarre story with great interest and have had many questions that were never answered. I have received many private queries from the various forums and so has Nelson RV. The questions directed to me, I feel obligated to address as best I can. After all, without the support and assistance of the readers, I would just have another ?fish that got away? story to tell.
I have heard it told that if a consumer has a great experience with a business they might tell two people about it. But if a consumer has a bad experience they are sure to tell at least ten. Through the power of the internet, I was able to tell tens of thousands through numerous web sites in matter of days. (The Consumerist story alone has had over 76k views so far!) I recognize and respect that that ability is powerful and potentially dangerous. I have been humbled and amazed by the experience.
Throughout this ordeal there were things going on and opinions that I had that I could not disclose on the forums. Now that the matter has resolved, I would like to fill in a few blanks. I hope this will allow those from all points of view to understand the unique dynamics of this transaction and how it could, and should have turned out much differently than it did. This may change a few opinions one way or the other, but I want the truth of the matter to be known to those that got involved with the story. I always hate it when I hear an interesting story on the news, but never get to hear how it all turned out!
I first found this E-Bay auction three days before I placed my bid. Ironically, it was the ?Below Cost? in the listing title that caught my eye. I did indeed notice that there was no reserve price and that the bidding started very low. I also noticed that the seller had nearly no feedback and had recently changed their name. Now normally, I would run away a suspicious auction like this. But, I also noted several other facts, like it was listed by a RV dealership, that it was being touted as below cost, that someone asked if the trailer could be viewed and a response with an address was listed, and that it was a 2007 model when the 2009 models are out. So it seemed possible to me that they just wanted to unload the excess inventory. So I did a little research over the next couple days. I verified the actual existence of the dealership, I went to their website, and I found the trailer listed at four or five other sites by Nelson RV. I decided that the auction was legit and that they were definitely were no strangers to listing items on the internet, so I believed they knew what they were doing.
I placed my winning bid on the Sandpiper with about 30 seconds left in the auction. Since the auction ended at 11pm MST, I only had one other bidder battling me. When I placed my bid, the auction was at $11,000. I immediately was leading the auction at $11,100. The person I out bid was at their limit at $11k!? I was momentarily shocked. Then in the amount of time it took me to refresh the screen I was the new leader at what ended up being the final price $15,255.57. Evidently, someone else was waiting to bid at the last moments of the auction and they had bid $15,155.57?! It turns out that was also the first person to bid on this auction. Why they bid that odd amount, I guess I will never know. Those that understand auctions know exactly what happened. My proxy bid was higher and therefore, I won the auction by the minimum increment of $100 over the next highest bidder.
Now while that might be hard to follow, I tell it for a reason. My proxy bid was actually $22,502. That was the amount that I was willing to go on the trailer. If I won it at that amount, I would have gotten a great deal. Winning it at a little more than 15k was unbelievable to my wife and me. I told her that the dealership is not going to be happy about this. They cannot have expected that the auction would end so low and they are probably going to kick themselves for not putting a reserve. We also agreed that when I talked to them the next day, if they sing the blues and tell us it was a mistake, we would negotiate with them. Our reasoning was that we were still willing to give the $22,500 for the trailer. (maybe a little better) I told my wife before we went to bed that night, to not get her hopes up. In my opinion, at that time, there was no way any dealership would sell 15k below price, and if they really made an honest mistake in the listing, we would just have to keep looking.
Then came the infamous Killer Bee e-mail. What? Are you kidding me? No one even talked to me in person? Can they really think that I am that dumb? I obviously didn?t buy the story. But I will tell you this, I could appreciate the desperation that they must be experiencing if they think that I would. I decided to send the e-mail stating that I would take it anyway. My goal was actually to get someone to speak to me on the phone. I didn?t think for a moment that they would instantly agree to hold up their end of the deal, but until they start talking to me in an open and transparent manner, they would never have the opportunity to realize that I am a reasonable man. Even after the Killer Bee?s I was still willing to try and work out a compromise with them. However, I was not as willing to walk away from the deal any longer. I felt insulted. I didn?t think it could get much worse?
Then came the Saturday phone call from Jim and Angelita. I didn?t even have a chance to get a word in edgewise. Somewhere between telling me that we have no contract, the trailer was already gone and calling me a swindler and hanging up on me, I came to a realization. I was not going to be able to have an adult conversation with these people. And I will be honest here, I was VERY mad at how I was treated. It was at that point that I became resolved to see the deal through as agreed through the auction. Attorneys, court, whatever it took.
I decided to post the story on forums to get some advice. I also decided to submit the story to some attorney?s for advice. Because of the success of the internet, I never ended up hiring an attorney. But with the exception of the first attorney, who was from Idaho, every other attorney that heard the circumstances wanted the case. Two in Arizona and even a different one in Idaho wanted the case. (It turns out that Idaho has a long-arm statute that allows jurisdiction to be set in Idaho if either party to a contract lives in Idaho). One attorney I talked to about fees was so confident in the case that he was willing to take it on contingency. He called me back every day to see if I wanted to hire him until I was finally able to tell him that James Nelson agreed to honor the deal.
After the KVOA news story broke and James agreed to honor the deal, I had to lay low. I didn?t want anything to change. I was contacted by a Tucson area newspaper reporter, but I didn?t call back. I was contacted by a Tucson area Fox affiliate reporter as well, but again, I did not give an interview. I did not see any reason to tell my story again after Nelson RV had agreed to honor the deal.
To me this story has a moral; maybe more than one. Honesty would have resulted in more money to the dealership or possibly even a mutual agreement to cancel the contract. Mistreating a customer, even if you believe them to be in the wrong, is never good for business. Evidently, being honest and respectful to your customers is a good idea. Who knew?
Both Nelson RV and I stirred up a bees nest. Theirs was and ACTUAL bees nest, mine was thousands of good people who could empathize with my bad consumer experience. I think the one I stirred was more effective. Once again, thank you to all of you.
I have heard it told that if a consumer has a great experience with a business they might tell two people about it. But if a consumer has a bad experience they are sure to tell at least ten. Through the power of the internet, I was able to tell tens of thousands through numerous web sites in matter of days. (The Consumerist story alone has had over 76k views so far!) I recognize and respect that that ability is powerful and potentially dangerous. I have been humbled and amazed by the experience.
Throughout this ordeal there were things going on and opinions that I had that I could not disclose on the forums. Now that the matter has resolved, I would like to fill in a few blanks. I hope this will allow those from all points of view to understand the unique dynamics of this transaction and how it could, and should have turned out much differently than it did. This may change a few opinions one way or the other, but I want the truth of the matter to be known to those that got involved with the story. I always hate it when I hear an interesting story on the news, but never get to hear how it all turned out!
I first found this E-Bay auction three days before I placed my bid. Ironically, it was the ?Below Cost? in the listing title that caught my eye. I did indeed notice that there was no reserve price and that the bidding started very low. I also noticed that the seller had nearly no feedback and had recently changed their name. Now normally, I would run away a suspicious auction like this. But, I also noted several other facts, like it was listed by a RV dealership, that it was being touted as below cost, that someone asked if the trailer could be viewed and a response with an address was listed, and that it was a 2007 model when the 2009 models are out. So it seemed possible to me that they just wanted to unload the excess inventory. So I did a little research over the next couple days. I verified the actual existence of the dealership, I went to their website, and I found the trailer listed at four or five other sites by Nelson RV. I decided that the auction was legit and that they were definitely were no strangers to listing items on the internet, so I believed they knew what they were doing.
I placed my winning bid on the Sandpiper with about 30 seconds left in the auction. Since the auction ended at 11pm MST, I only had one other bidder battling me. When I placed my bid, the auction was at $11,000. I immediately was leading the auction at $11,100. The person I out bid was at their limit at $11k!? I was momentarily shocked. Then in the amount of time it took me to refresh the screen I was the new leader at what ended up being the final price $15,255.57. Evidently, someone else was waiting to bid at the last moments of the auction and they had bid $15,155.57?! It turns out that was also the first person to bid on this auction. Why they bid that odd amount, I guess I will never know. Those that understand auctions know exactly what happened. My proxy bid was higher and therefore, I won the auction by the minimum increment of $100 over the next highest bidder.
Now while that might be hard to follow, I tell it for a reason. My proxy bid was actually $22,502. That was the amount that I was willing to go on the trailer. If I won it at that amount, I would have gotten a great deal. Winning it at a little more than 15k was unbelievable to my wife and me. I told her that the dealership is not going to be happy about this. They cannot have expected that the auction would end so low and they are probably going to kick themselves for not putting a reserve. We also agreed that when I talked to them the next day, if they sing the blues and tell us it was a mistake, we would negotiate with them. Our reasoning was that we were still willing to give the $22,500 for the trailer. (maybe a little better) I told my wife before we went to bed that night, to not get her hopes up. In my opinion, at that time, there was no way any dealership would sell 15k below price, and if they really made an honest mistake in the listing, we would just have to keep looking.
Then came the infamous Killer Bee e-mail. What? Are you kidding me? No one even talked to me in person? Can they really think that I am that dumb? I obviously didn?t buy the story. But I will tell you this, I could appreciate the desperation that they must be experiencing if they think that I would. I decided to send the e-mail stating that I would take it anyway. My goal was actually to get someone to speak to me on the phone. I didn?t think for a moment that they would instantly agree to hold up their end of the deal, but until they start talking to me in an open and transparent manner, they would never have the opportunity to realize that I am a reasonable man. Even after the Killer Bee?s I was still willing to try and work out a compromise with them. However, I was not as willing to walk away from the deal any longer. I felt insulted. I didn?t think it could get much worse?
Then came the Saturday phone call from Jim and Angelita. I didn?t even have a chance to get a word in edgewise. Somewhere between telling me that we have no contract, the trailer was already gone and calling me a swindler and hanging up on me, I came to a realization. I was not going to be able to have an adult conversation with these people. And I will be honest here, I was VERY mad at how I was treated. It was at that point that I became resolved to see the deal through as agreed through the auction. Attorneys, court, whatever it took.
I decided to post the story on forums to get some advice. I also decided to submit the story to some attorney?s for advice. Because of the success of the internet, I never ended up hiring an attorney. But with the exception of the first attorney, who was from Idaho, every other attorney that heard the circumstances wanted the case. Two in Arizona and even a different one in Idaho wanted the case. (It turns out that Idaho has a long-arm statute that allows jurisdiction to be set in Idaho if either party to a contract lives in Idaho). One attorney I talked to about fees was so confident in the case that he was willing to take it on contingency. He called me back every day to see if I wanted to hire him until I was finally able to tell him that James Nelson agreed to honor the deal.
After the KVOA news story broke and James agreed to honor the deal, I had to lay low. I didn?t want anything to change. I was contacted by a Tucson area newspaper reporter, but I didn?t call back. I was contacted by a Tucson area Fox affiliate reporter as well, but again, I did not give an interview. I did not see any reason to tell my story again after Nelson RV had agreed to honor the deal.
To me this story has a moral; maybe more than one. Honesty would have resulted in more money to the dealership or possibly even a mutual agreement to cancel the contract. Mistreating a customer, even if you believe them to be in the wrong, is never good for business. Evidently, being honest and respectful to your customers is a good idea. Who knew?
Both Nelson RV and I stirred up a bees nest. Theirs was and ACTUAL bees nest, mine was thousands of good people who could empathize with my bad consumer experience. I think the one I stirred was more effective. Once again, thank you to all of you.
Ron
Moderator Emeritus
Thank you for the update or THE REST OF THE STORY. I am sure you will get a lot of enjoyment from your purchase. Hope you will stick around the RV Forum.
Ray D
Well-known member
Well done and well said! ;D
Tom
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2005
- Posts
- 51,985
Thanks for the follow up and the balance of the story.
rsalhus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2006
- Posts
- 1,335
The Dance of the Bumblebees, a very exciting story. Just glad that you weren't the one that got stung in the end!
PancakeBill
Well-known member
So, did they do a good job of cleaning up after the bees?
BronekR
Well-known member
I'm glad to see that it ended on the positive note. Dealer should be recognized by correcting the wrong! Hopefully others learn from it.
Good luck with new camper
Good luck with new camper
I think I would give this dealer a "neutral" recommendation, in other words I wouldn't write any at all, positive or negative. He sure doesn't deserve a positive because of the way he acted initially but doesn't deserve a negative since he did finally make it right. Albeit because of public pressure.
Woody
Woody
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