Oldgator73
Well-known member
kdbgoat said:
1-10
Electric PU trucks
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SeilerBird
Well-known member
No one is trying to convince you.kdbgoat said:
SeilerBird
Well-known member
For me I don't need real world numbers. It is painfully obvious to me that electrical power is a lot cleaner than burning dinosaurs. But in today's world of 'alternate facts' anything can be proven true or false so I am not listening to them. The people who are totally against it are all the people that own gas stations, convenience stores or otherwise have a financial interest in seeing gas live on forever. The people claiming it is better usually have a financial interest in seeing electricity succeed. I have no financial interest in either but clearly we will eventually run out of fossil fuels. That would be the wrong time to start thinking about a solution.
Boy, I bet you and I could have some great discussions around a campfire! ;D I agree that some millenium from now, we will run out of dinosaurs, and also agree that we do need to think of alternatives. But for now, here's the breakdown of energy producers from the EIA as of 2016:
Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Renewables (total) = 14.9%
Hydropower = 6.5%
Wind = 5.6%
Biomass = 1.5%
Solar = 0.9%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Petroleum = 0.6%
Other gases = 0.3%
Other nonrenewable sources = 0.3%
Pumped storage hydroelectricity = -0.2%4
It looks like we will still have to burn a lot of dinosaurs to to generate the power needed to recharge the electric vehicles until things change for the better.
Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Renewables (total) = 14.9%
Hydropower = 6.5%
Wind = 5.6%
Biomass = 1.5%
Solar = 0.9%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Petroleum = 0.6%
Other gases = 0.3%
Other nonrenewable sources = 0.3%
Pumped storage hydroelectricity = -0.2%4
It looks like we will still have to burn a lot of dinosaurs to to generate the power needed to recharge the electric vehicles until things change for the better.
Oldgator73
Well-known member
kdbgoat said:
Is it your position that we should not go forward with R&D of electric vehicles? Or is it your position that electric vehicles are not the panacea that some are saying they are. The vehicle itself is more clean burning. The manufacture process may not be but but we have to take baby steps. The same amount of fossil fuel is utilized to make a petrol vehicle that is used to make an electric vehicle. The savings, at this time, lay solely with the reduced one no emissions and elevated MPG. We have to take baby steps. Hybrid and all electric vehicles, in comparison with petrol vehicals, are in their infancy. Electric vehicles will not replace Peyton vehicles in our lifetime but I hope they do my grandkids lifetime.
I'm saying people shouldn't running around saying the electric vehicles are cleaner and cheaper until all the factors are considered. Power still has to be generated to charge them, and it is taking fossil fuel for the majority of that. Our grid is strained as it is, and will also take a bit of upgrading.
Then there is the issue of battery recycling:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714000037
Read section 2.3
No, I'm not saying electric vehicles shouldn't be developed, but people shouldn't act they are the cure for today's woes. I agree with the baby steps, but forethought needs to be done to develop solutions to upcoming problems along with that development, not just develop, then cry "what are we going to do now?" with the problems that have been created.
Then there is the issue of battery recycling:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714000037
Read section 2.3
No, I'm not saying electric vehicles shouldn't be developed, but people shouldn't act they are the cure for today's woes. I agree with the baby steps, but forethought needs to be done to develop solutions to upcoming problems along with that development, not just develop, then cry "what are we going to do now?" with the problems that have been created.
blw2
Well-known member
I'm late to the discussion...but it's one I find interesting.
I like the "idea" of electric cars....especially pick-up trucks since that's what I drive.
but I've never liked them for the reasons of "cleaner" or "the environment"
A friend of mine had a Nissan Leaf. For some reason I just like the concept. hard to put my finger on exactly why, since I don't for a minute buy the whole cleaner thing fully. all the energy and pollution to produce and recycle the things, and to generate the electricity to run it....
but still.... I love the idea of not having to stop at gas stations so much, when most of my daily driving is rather short trips. I like that they are quiet. No oil changes (although surely there is some required maintenance....)
My ideal would be a plug-in hybrid...something with enough electric range to get me to and from work, or to the store.....but with an on-board generator to supplement for longer trips....and solar panels integral to the body to take advantage of all the time parked in the sun. Maybe a wind turbine for use while parked....
I like the "idea" of electric cars....especially pick-up trucks since that's what I drive.
but I've never liked them for the reasons of "cleaner" or "the environment"
A friend of mine had a Nissan Leaf. For some reason I just like the concept. hard to put my finger on exactly why, since I don't for a minute buy the whole cleaner thing fully. all the energy and pollution to produce and recycle the things, and to generate the electricity to run it....
but still.... I love the idea of not having to stop at gas stations so much, when most of my daily driving is rather short trips. I like that they are quiet. No oil changes (although surely there is some required maintenance....)
My ideal would be a plug-in hybrid...something with enough electric range to get me to and from work, or to the store.....but with an on-board generator to supplement for longer trips....and solar panels integral to the body to take advantage of all the time parked in the sun. Maybe a wind turbine for use while parked....
gravesdiesel
Well-known member
I am more in favor of renewable fuels like biodiesel so we can continue to use practical vehicles. I have made some biodiesel in my shop that worked well, using cooking oil from a restaurant. I would like to get into doing that again but would not want to run it in the newer trucks with the DPF/EGR emission systems.
Diesel/electric hybrids seem cool and are gaining popularity in Europe. That may be an answer for the heavier loads, as it sure works well for many trains!
Diesel/electric hybrids seem cool and are gaining popularity in Europe. That may be an answer for the heavier loads, as it sure works well for many trains!
Lou Schneider
Site Team
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2005
- Posts
- 13,256
The reason diesel-electric drive is used in train locomotives isn't efficiency, it's because it's impossible to build a mechanical transmission strong enough to start a mile long freight train from a dead stop. It's been tried because once a train is up to speed, direct drive to the axles is more efficient than going through the diesel-electric double conversion (mechanical rotation to electrical, then electrical to mechanical rotation).
Both steam and diesel-electric have the advantage of generating maximum torque at 0 RPM, making them both well suited to start long trains while being directly coupled to the drive wheels.
Both steam and diesel-electric have the advantage of generating maximum torque at 0 RPM, making them both well suited to start long trains while being directly coupled to the drive wheels.
Oldgator73
Well-known member
I'm sure there were many arguments on both sides when the "horseless carriages" were first introduced. We have to be foreword thinking about technology. We have to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels. We are going to run out, they are not finite. Now is as good a time as any to put $$$ into R&D for non petroleum based energy systems.
Phrogman
Member
kdbgoat said:
Sam Bar
Well-known member
Joezeppy said:Already been done. You pull into a filling station, pull out your batteries, put in fresh ones and you are on the way. Quicker than pumping gas. Just need to update the infrustructure.
I always seem to drive through their "exhaust" right after I've washed the car!
When I bring my 1947 8n Ford tractor in to the garage overnight, in the morning I am greeted with the nostalgic smell of unburnt gas, crank case vapors and a host of other odor long since removed from todays vehicles. That is a good thing.
Electric or electric/hybrid vehicles will sell because they are convenient. There will be minimal or no gas stops and oil changes, a robotic arm snakes its way from the wall or pops out of the floor to plug in and recharges your TV while you sleep.
I can think of nothing better than to step into my truck and say "take me to the skeet range" and when I get there tell it to park next to the red car. Or, if necessary, do it myself.
Sure it is fun play with the old equipment and it gives you an appreciation for times past but I would not trade the reduced maintenance, increased durability and comfort of my 2010 F-150 for my old beloved 1955 Ford with three on the column.
We like to think that electric cars are good for the environment, are greener, less polluting etc, etc. However the real reason they will sell is because they will become far more convenient and cheaper than gas driven products. I wonder how many remember washing machines powered by small gas engines or cranking your Aunts old "Victrola" to play a record and picking up the receiver as the operator says "Number Please."
Buck Rogers, Star Wars and Star Trek are peeking at us from just around the corner.
Electric or electric/hybrid vehicles will sell because they are convenient. There will be minimal or no gas stops and oil changes, a robotic arm snakes its way from the wall or pops out of the floor to plug in and recharges your TV while you sleep.
I can think of nothing better than to step into my truck and say "take me to the skeet range" and when I get there tell it to park next to the red car. Or, if necessary, do it myself.
Sure it is fun play with the old equipment and it gives you an appreciation for times past but I would not trade the reduced maintenance, increased durability and comfort of my 2010 F-150 for my old beloved 1955 Ford with three on the column.
We like to think that electric cars are good for the environment, are greener, less polluting etc, etc. However the real reason they will sell is because they will become far more convenient and cheaper than gas driven products. I wonder how many remember washing machines powered by small gas engines or cranking your Aunts old "Victrola" to play a record and picking up the receiver as the operator says "Number Please."
Buck Rogers, Star Wars and Star Trek are peeking at us from just around the corner.
