rider1520
Well-known member
Does an inside electrical management system like those found on most 50amp class A coaches, eliminate the need for an outside EMS at the post like Progressive Industries?
Electrical Management System question
- Thread starter rider1520
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Kirk
Well-known member
No. The power line monitors from Progressive or Southwire do a very different job. Either one will monitor the power supply to the RV for improper wiring, high or low voltage, frequency errors, surges from lightning strikes and such. The power management device is there to manage the loads on your electric supply but does nothing to protect your RV from damages caused by bad power.
Larry N.
Well-known member
To add to (and partially duplicate) Kirk's comments, it's unfortunate that they seem to have the same label, because the two types of systems are completely different in function. One (outside) is actual source protection, while the other (inside) adjusts loads to avoid overloading the (electric) current source by cutting out items (air cond, etc.) that draw too much current. In point of fact, when you're hooked to 50 amp, the inside EMS doesn't do much but display conditions, but the outside one (whether on the pedestal or hardwired in) is still offering full protection. It's at 30 amps and 20 amps shore power that the inside one earns its keep.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Not always so. Many class A coaches now have powerline management built into the ATS. I know Rev Group brands (Fleetwood, American Coach, Monaco & HR) use the integrated ATS & Power Mgmt from Southwire. That distinct from the 30A power limiter that Kirk refers to. So the answer to rider1520's question depends on what he means by "inside electrical management".
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rider1520
Well-known member
Thank you guys, I appreciate the responses
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rider1520
Well-known member
Gary, specifically, like the one on the Winnebago Adventurer 29B
John From Detroit
Well-known member
Rather than say "Like the one" Tell us what's on the lable Southwire. TRC Intelletec Progressive Industries... All mean things. all are also options on many RVs.
Kirk
Well-known member
I agree but don't believe that he means this ATS.
You are speaking of a load management sustem, and not the ATS or automatic transfer device? The ATS is the device that selects power from either the shore power cord or the onboard generator? Those do sometimes have power monitoring built into them. If you are meaning an ATS with monitoring built in, then you would not need a device at pedestal.
CharlesinGA
Well-known member
Southwire has integrated shall we say "protective functions" (over/under volt, no ground, crossed hot/neutral, etc) into ATS units, which I assume they are marketing to the manufacturers. I considered their 30 amp xfer switch/EMS unit when I made changes to my Onan generator/shore cord wiring in 2020, but the unit was pretty much non-existent as it has just been announced in the fall of 2019 and also was stupid over priced for what it was.
I have become a believer in not combining multiple devices into one unit. Something fails and you are..... well...... left in a pickle.
Automatic Transfer Switches | Southwire RV
Charles
I have become a believer in not combining multiple devices into one unit. Something fails and you are..... well...... left in a pickle.
Automatic Transfer Switches | Southwire RV
Charles
John From Detroit
Well-known member
What is the Bit Social Media types respond to a post like this with #metoo .
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Sorry, but I don't know what equipment might be on that coach, either standard or optional. And it might be different from one recent year to another.
The only mention I can find for the current model on the Winnie website is for the Powerline EMS. That device is strictly a 30A power limiter and does NOT replace an internal or external power monitor ala the Progressive or Southwires devices. The Powerline unit doesn't monitor voltage or check for proper hot/neutral/ground wiring, nor does it have any surge protection capability.
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rider1520
Well-known member
Thank Gary. I pick up the unit this coming Monday and once I do I will check to see what is there and they comment again. I am just trying to understand the world of 50amp coach’s and what all the built in Power distribution and energy management systems actually do.
tlmgcamp
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2016
- Posts
- 840
Camping since 1970 and never had an issue with surge, but you guys are getting me thinking about it. I just did a quick search and saw them from $26 to $250. Anybody care to help me narrow that down? I only need 30amp
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
"Surge" is not what you need to worry about, but the power protection devices are often called "surge protectors even though that is not their most important function. The cheapest ones only do surge protection and are (my opinion) a waste of money. The 30A protection that is most valuable is high/low voltage and miswired pedestals (reversed neutral & hot or open ground). The best devices constantly monitor voltage as long as you are hooked up, while the medium-priced ones just check it when you plug in.
If you only go to campsites that have good power, e.g. always return to the same places where experience has shown there are no power issues, then you can afford to gamble. If you routinely visit new places where you don't know the quality of the power and pedestal wiring, then investing in some protection is probably a good idea.
If you only go to campsites that have good power, e.g. always return to the same places where experience has shown there are no power issues, then you can afford to gamble. If you routinely visit new places where you don't know the quality of the power and pedestal wiring, then investing in some protection is probably a good idea.
Kirk
Well-known member
In all of my years of RVing, I have only known 1 person to have an RV damaged by a surge that the surge protection only devices would have prevented. In his case, lightning struck the power pole that supplied the row of RVs that he was part of. By far the most common problem with RV park power supplies is what we electrical types call, voltage sag. It happens when the supply voltage is what it should be as you arrive in the park, but as more and more RVs arrive and hook up the increased load on the supply causes the voltage to drop, or sag. That is especially common in summer when air conditioners are in use but can also happen from the use of electric heaters or other high current appliances.
Voltage sag seldom causes an appliance failure immediately but each time that your appliances are subjected to low or high voltages they suffer some amount of damage and eventually it will cause failures. In a service industry magazine that I used to read they stated that more than half of all electrical equipment failures are the result accumulated damage resulting from exposure to improper voltages. Voltage issues are to your RV a lot like smoking is to people in that it is always harmful but can happen quickly to some and very slowly or never to others.
Voltage sag seldom causes an appliance failure immediately but each time that your appliances are subjected to low or high voltages they suffer some amount of damage and eventually it will cause failures. In a service industry magazine that I used to read they stated that more than half of all electrical equipment failures are the result accumulated damage resulting from exposure to improper voltages. Voltage issues are to your RV a lot like smoking is to people in that it is always harmful but can happen quickly to some and very slowly or never to others.
Larry N.
Well-known member
There is a campground west of Colorado City, CO where I had some noticeable surges/oddities on the power, and got a control card for the A/C damaged, which took quite a while for Fleetwood to diagnose- rear A/C was a problem, front was OK, control board replacement fixed it.
My Progressive unit I have now would have prevented that.
At an FMCA convention in Tucson the 30 amp connections strung out along the polo field had many, many fluctuations, and the Progressive unit cut power once in a while, then restored it when things settled down. In a Colorado State Park I had the Progressive unit shutting off power at night from voltage over 130 VAC, when A/C for everyone there didn't run so much.
John From Detroit
Well-known member
There are Four thigns that Better protection systems deal with
SPIKES: Most "Surge Strips" (those 6 outlet extension cord things) are not surge protectors at all but SPIKE.. What's the difference.. TIME.. Spikes are very high voltages typically for 1/60th of a second or less Usually caused by a "Big Switch" opening (Like an Air Conditioner)
Surges.. These last longer.. Lots longer and may turn the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varisistors which are often replicable and responsible for Spike supression to make like Firecrackers and go POP) (Seriously sounds just like firecrackers going off) (I will tell you now I know)
Sag.. Low voltage damaging to things like Air Conditioners (Especially the compressor.. Blower motors are easy to replace.. Compressors often better to replace entire unit)
And OH C**P! things... For example.. I was at a Moose lodge. The Governor ask If I'd plugged into the 60 amp outlet (I had not even found it) Turns they had used what looked very much like a TT-30 outlet (I finally found it later) but I had seen the twin ganged 60 amp breakers in the breaker box so I knew the outlet was 240 volt not 120 (30 amp outlets like the TT-30 are 120 volt)...
At an electrical supply I was chatting with an Electrician.. He was buying a TT-30 for his customer and a dual ganged 30 amp Breaker... (OPPS in progress) I got to him before he fed 240 volts to a 120 volt RV. (He was rather thankful. After all the outlet says "MAX 125 VAC" right on it, and on the box it comes in)
Now How do I know about the Firecracker thign? Detroit Edison hired Harlan Electric to repair some downed lines.. They made the same mistake and doubled the line voltage (high tension) so Instead of 120/240 I had at least 240/480 and the Surge Suppressors scattered about the room I was in went off like Firecrackers.
SPIKES: Most "Surge Strips" (those 6 outlet extension cord things) are not surge protectors at all but SPIKE.. What's the difference.. TIME.. Spikes are very high voltages typically for 1/60th of a second or less Usually caused by a "Big Switch" opening (Like an Air Conditioner)
Surges.. These last longer.. Lots longer and may turn the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varisistors which are often replicable and responsible for Spike supression to make like Firecrackers and go POP) (Seriously sounds just like firecrackers going off) (I will tell you now I know)
Sag.. Low voltage damaging to things like Air Conditioners (Especially the compressor.. Blower motors are easy to replace.. Compressors often better to replace entire unit)
And OH C**P! things... For example.. I was at a Moose lodge. The Governor ask If I'd plugged into the 60 amp outlet (I had not even found it) Turns they had used what looked very much like a TT-30 outlet (I finally found it later) but I had seen the twin ganged 60 amp breakers in the breaker box so I knew the outlet was 240 volt not 120 (30 amp outlets like the TT-30 are 120 volt)...
At an electrical supply I was chatting with an Electrician.. He was buying a TT-30 for his customer and a dual ganged 30 amp Breaker... (OPPS in progress) I got to him before he fed 240 volts to a 120 volt RV. (He was rather thankful. After all the outlet says "MAX 125 VAC" right on it, and on the box it comes in)
Now How do I know about the Firecracker thign? Detroit Edison hired Harlan Electric to repair some downed lines.. They made the same mistake and doubled the line voltage (high tension) so Instead of 120/240 I had at least 240/480 and the Surge Suppressors scattered about the room I was in went off like Firecrackers.
