engine will not turn over

[bushwacker]

hi all, 83 Itasca Spectrum on a Chevy-van P30 chassis.

Before I start tearing into this thing I have some questions. An overhead guage shows I have enough juice in two new batteries.  When I turn the key over I see only the brake warning light come on. (low on brake fluid) I don't see any other warning lights that usually come on when a vehicle is started. My questions: are there any type of switches that may be off, that I need to make sure are on? or does this sound like an electrical or starter problem? It may be something obvious, and easy to you but not to me, so any input will be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Just Lou]

Check all your battery connections.  With a loose connection, the gauge might show good voltage but the connection would fail under load.  You should at least hear the ignition relay pick, if it is indeed picking. 

Turn on some interior lights if they work.  Check to see if they dim when you try to crank the engine.

If they dim or go out, then you most likely have a bad connection at the battery.  If they do not dim or go out then your bad connection may be at the starter or your ignition relay is not picking.

 

[bushwacker]

hey lou, thanks for the reply.

all connections to the battery are solid. when I turn on cabin lights and turn key over, they do not dim. Some new info I just found out, I thought the last time the vehicle was used was two years ago. turns out, it hasn't been started in 6 years!!   could this affect the starter/solonoid?

also I have a toggle/rocker switch on dash. says "Batt" and  "MOM". I know this is a newbie question and i sorta get the concept from reading around, but could you or anyone else, explain it to me. when any why you use it.

thanks for any input.

 

[Just Lou]

Maybe a Winni guy can help us here.  I think... in the MOM position that dash switch basically shorts the batteries together to allow you to use the house and chassis batteries in tandem to assist in starting the engine.  Not real sure about the other BATT position, but it may be the normal position to use the house batteries (like a connect or disconnect switch?).

If that engine hasn't been run for six years we are probably wasting our time trying to remotely diagnose what may be going on.   It will probably take some hands on time with a meter to trace the battery voltage through the entire ignition path.

I'm not sure if you can determine anything useful by checking the accessory's (radio, etc...) with the key in the full on position.
It appears the switch works because the brake related light come on, but whether any other ignition functions are activated is a guess at this point.  Locating the ignition relay(s) without diagrams will be a problem.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The interior lights are probably on the house battery system rather than the engine cranking battery. They won't react to the key or an attempt t start the engine.

MOM probably stands for MOMentary and connects the house batteries to the engine battery for emergency starting. It is "MOM" because you have to hold it down to engage it - it springs back if you let go.    BATT would be the normal operating position.  If your house batteries are OK, give it a try.

After 6 years you could well have a stuck starter solenoid or other relay that is not closing when it should. You are just going to have to dig to find it or get professional help.

 

[Just Lou]

Gary is correct about the lights.  I meant to say exterior lights (lights connected to the chassis battery).  I don't think the test would show anything if you are not even hearing a click, but my theory was that if voltage was getting to a stuck starter the large current draw would dim the lights.  If the lights don't dim, it's usually a good indication that current is not even reaching the starter, indicating a faulty ignition relay or starter solenoid.

 

[DonTom]

it hasn't been started in 6 years!!   could this affect the starter/solonoid?

I am going to guess a  "yes" because with my old 1978 RV (GM), I had it sit for about six months without trying to start it. When I finally did try to start it,  it would not crank.

But in my case, the starter was shorted. It was obvious because the starter wires got extremely hot when I attempted to start it.  All was fine after replacing the starter.

But if your lights don't change brightness when you try to start, (IOW, no obvious change in load) check the connections right on the starter & solenoid. Theses large nuts can become loose too, just as battery connections. A few months ago, my 97 Sebring would not start for that reason.

-Don- SSF, CA​

 

[1joester2]

My $0.02...

My '01 had an issue in extreme cold where the starter would not engage. Several repeated attempts in a row would make it engage and start.

Try this... remove, test with a meter, and reseat EVERY fuse in the fuse block and under the hood. Your fuse(s) might be blown or have a corroded connection preventing power to needed circuiits if the unit hasn't run for 6 years.

Kinda dangerous, but you can short the two main posts of the solenoid with two screwdrivers and force power to the starter.This will either prove the $10 solenoid to be defective, or the starter itself.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Also check the neutral interlock switch on the transmission - if it's not registering the transmission as being in neutral or park it disconnects the ignition switch from the starter solenoid.

The "Bat/Mom" switch on the dash does indeed connect the two sets of batteries together.  It has two positions so it can draw power from either battery bank to energize the solenoid - in case one bank is dead you can draw power from the other.  The "Bat" position draws the relay power from the ignition circuit when the ignition switch is on (connecting the house battery to the chassis battery so the alternator can charge them both).  "Mom" (Momentary) does the same thing, but draws power from the house battery so you can start with a dead chassis battery.

 

[1joester2]

Good point, Lou. I missed the PRNDL switch.

 

[Mark R.]

All good advice, here is one more thing to try, have someone hold the ignition key in the crank position and hit the starter with a small hammer several times , it may take right off. good luck

 

[bushwacker]

hi guys, thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Still no go. As of now, I pulled the starter. Jumped the solenoid and the starter spins. So...Im thinking either starter solenoid or something between the starter and the ignition switch  ;D that narrows it down. haha. Here's another thing though, the ignition switch feels wonky to me. after tuning the key past the first click, it is very "tight" and it doesn't turn or spring back like normal. so... another suspect.

Heres my plan...please chime in if im incorrect or you have a better idea. With the starter out, I know i should have checked this when it was in but i spaced it.  anyway,i hope this will work.  i'm gonna have someone turn the key over. I'm gonna hook up my voltmeter to the wire that runs to the solenoid. Should I see 12V in that wire when the key is turned? If I dont see anything, should I assume it is the switch or some other component in the chain? Now IF I do see power coming through that wire, shouldn't that indicate a faulty solenoid on my starter?

one more thing. I was wrong on the internal battery switch. sorry. it is labeled Batt on top in the middle with Dual and MOM on each end. When Dual is pressed, it holds down.  When MOM is pressed it is only engaged momentarily then returns up. So... this is all new to me, should I only have it switched to Dual if I want to charge both batteries? and only use MOM when I need power from BOTH batteries to start  the engine. Aside from these two situation, should it be in the "neutral" position or always kept in Dual?

Thanks for your patience, guys!!

P.S. I do have 12V coming into the starter from the battery cable. I didn't have anyone to turn the key so I could check the voltage on the solenoid wire.

 

[Mark R.]

Replace that ignition switch or it will bite you in the butt, nothing like a stuck starter with engine running, yes to all, you will fix it.

 

[DonTom]

Ignition switch failures are fairly common. The actual switch contacts are usually located at or near the very bottom of the steering column.  It works from a rod pushed from the ignition lock assembly. You most likely do not have to touch the ignition lock to fix a problem with the ignition switch. You might be able to check this with a voltmeter from the inside.  And you might even be able to tell the contacts are burnt even without any testing, just by looking.

-Don- SSF, CA​

 

[Lou Schneider]

Either way you push the Battery switch, it does the same thing.  Closes a relay to connect the house and starting batteries together.

When the engine is running, this lets the engine alternator charge both sets of batteries.

The only difference is the source of power to energize the relay.  In the DUAL position, power comes from the chassis circuit.   This won't work if the chassis battery is dead, so the MOM position lets you power the relay from the house batteries and jump-start the engine from them.

The switch should be OFF when you're camping.  If you leave it on, the house and starting batteries will continue to be connected and you'll drain both of them.