External microphones for video recording

[Tom]

Understood. I wasn't taking the video on Sunday; I was on stage, while Chris was seated in the elevated section of the audience, with the camera on a tripod and the external mic' in the hot shoe. My comment that "we need more practice with the G7/mic' combination at live shows" referred to shows that we both attend as audience members.

 

[Tom]

We apparently have decent audio from a separate digital audio recorder that was set up on a tripod in an aisle by a band member; Some MP3 files are on their way for me to see if I can use them to replace the audio track on the videos.

Meanwhile, we're trying to get the promised '2-track' audio file from the sound booth.

 

[Larry N.]

I haven't yet figured out the source of the 'crackling' sounds occasionally heard.

In "Back in the High Life Again" I heard a couple of spots where it seemed the voices were overdriving the mic, very briefly, though my ears aren't nearly as good as they used to be. I don't know if that's the "crackling" you referred to.

I really enjoyed the performances -- great job by all, though the sound seemed a tad "muddy," if it's not just my ears. I wonder, too, if you have an automatic white balance on that camera? Seems a tad reddish.

Thanks for sharing those videos -- they're fun to listen to.

 

[SeilerBird]

I really enjoyed the performances -- great job by all, though the sound seemed a tad "muddy," if it's not just my ears. I wonder, too, if you have an automatic white balance on that camera? Seems a tad reddish.

It is not your ears, it is muddy. The problem is 60 singers and 60 ukes running into one microphone. It really needs to be at least a four channel recording to be able to tame the mud.

 

[Tom]

[quote author=Larry N]In "Back in the High Life Again" I heard a couple of spots where it seemed the voices were overdriving the mic...[/quote]

Aye Larry, but that's not the very pronounced crackling in a couple of spots on a few numbers. I really had to guess where to set the gain/attenuation on the mic' and on the camera, and was worried I might overdrive it, or have insufficient volume. Prior to the show, I tried to check on what had been recorded during the sound check/warm up but, without a headphone jack on the camera, there was really no way to listen to it.

.. the sound seemed a tad "muddy,"

No disagreement, and it's one reason I need to get my hands on the 2-track recording from the sound booth. I'm a little concerned that there was not good communication between the various sound techs, and hope they kept the file; Only one of the guys on the crew at the show was in our prior meeting to go through the show step-by-step, but it felt like we were having to repeat stuff during the sound check.

All in all, I'm not really unhappy with the show or the recordings, although both could have been better. We're an amateur band, many of whom haven't previously played a stringed instrument, few of whom have sung in public before, and this was an experiment with a new camera and ext mic'. Our 'appointed' videographer, who did a credible job in the past, couldn't make it; Chris, who is neither a photographer nor a videographer and was using the camera & mic' for the first time, agreed to step in at the last minute. I wasn't expecting a professional recording result.

We learn from every event, and had a short review at last evening's practice.

 

[Tom]

I wonder, too, if you have an automatic white balance on that camera?

I do, and it's set to auto.

Seems a tad reddish.

Might be able to change that in video editing; Haven't attempted to edit any video yet; I merely cropped the recordings into 1-song clips, and removed some superfluous stuff.

 

[SeilerBird]

"reddish"

That is from the color temperature being set wrong. It is set for outdoors and the lights are incandescent. You should be able to adjust the color balance with any editing software.

 

[Lou Schneider]

I think what I'm hearing is the muddiness from a monaural microphone.  Single source recording blends everything together including the room reverbrations.

Next time you're at a rehearsal, go into the audience and plug one ear so you're only listening through the other - you'll hear what a mono microphone picks up.

Does your camera support stereo audio?  If so, I'd suggest giving a binaural microphone a try.  Something like this:

Sony ECM-DS70P Portable Stereo Condenser Microphone

Can you give me a reference to the crackling you're hearing?  If it's condenser microphone without it's own battery, it's getting DC power from the camera.  Jiggling the connector can cause crackling if there's DC on it, like a dirty volume control.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Lou. I wondered if I should buy a stereo mic (the on-board mic's are stereo), but I ended up focusing on the mic's recording pattern.

 

[Tom]

Can you give me a reference to the crackling you're hearing?

Hang on, I need to find them.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Another technique is to get a pair of the sharpest shotgun microphones you can find and arrange them in a crossed X pattern.

You'll have to buy or make a Y cord to put one microphone on the left channel and the other on the right.

Aim the one on the right towards the left side of the stage and connect it to the left input of the recorder.  Do the same for the other one, aiming it towards the right side of the stage.

By varying the angle between the microphones you can expand or compress the stereo image.

The problem with using a sharp shotgun mic on the camera is the pickup will change if you pan the camera back and forth.

 

[Tom]

Another technique is to get a pair of the sharpest shotgun microphones you can find and arrange them in a crossed X pattern.

Neat trick Lou, but it sounds a bit pricey for my limited personal use.

 

[Larry N.]

The problem with using a sharp shotgun mic on the camera is the pickup will change if you pan the camera back and forth.

Which is why, to me, the super cardioid, rather than a true shotgun mic, is a good choice for this application.

 

[Tom]

Larry/Lou, does this mean that what I need (or should have bought) is a stereo super cardioid mic'?

 

[Lou Schneider]

That would be my recommendation if you can find one.  The Sony I referenced has a "unidirectional stereo pattern" which is kind of saying it's cardioid to some extent.  I couldn't find any further description of it's pickup pattern.

The main thing is to get something stereo, then see if the imaging helps a listener separate the instrument/vocals from the room reflections.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Lou. I saw that "unidirectional" description, but didn't know how much to believe it.

 

[8Muddypaws]

Some of the music editing systems have plugins that can 'spatialize' a mono signal.  They do a fair job too.  I've used them, with filtering, delay, and reverb to come up with a pretty good sounding philharmonic.  You might be able to clear up the mud a little bit but sadly the crackling is fatal.

It's most likely the mic getting over pressured, or the mic overdriving the A to D converters in the camera. (Or both!)  Easy enough to tell by looking at the wave form in an editor.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Russ.


FWIW I just received the first half of the MP3 files from the standalone audio recorder. Only listened to a couple of numbers; They appear to be an improvement, but they're not as clean as I expected. Still crossing my fingers for a 'good' file from the sound board techs.

 

[Larry N.]

Tom,

I finally made a microphone choice, the Sennheiser MKE 440, which is a stereo arrangement, but with "mini shotgun" mics (super cardioid pattern) in a "V" formation.

It just arrived Tuesday, and I've only had limited experience so far, but from my back porch it seemed to cut some ambient noise, but with jets overhead and reflections of traffic noise it was hard to do a proper evaluation. I did notice, though, that it really cut the level of my voice narration compared to internal mics. So yesterday I went to the basement, broke out the guitar, and recorded a partial song (along with my 12-string) both with the camcorder (Canon G-20) built in mics and with the 440 on the cold shoe. This was with the furnace intermittently running and a stereo playing quietly behind the camcorder.

From about 5 feet away, the internal mics captured some fairly nice sound, but with (especially in the quieter parts) some background noise, including echoes from the walls (painted drywall, and carpet). The MKE 440 cut out pretty much all of the audible (to me) background noise, and cut the (slightly) too bright sound of the guitar, giving a seemingly more "natural" sound. The difference was even more noticeable at about 11 feet away, as the built in had a more "hollow" sound with a higher (relatively) level of background sound, while the MKE 440 sound wasn't much changed from the 5 foot run.

I then did something similar with my Nikon 7100 and it really showed how tinny the sound is on the Nikon's built in mics -- sound with the MKE 440 on the Nikon was just about as good as on the Canon G-20, a very welcome improvement.

I really won't know for certain how much better it is (for my purposes) until my grandson's first school concert of the year, and that's probably mid-December, or so, but preliminarily I think it's what I was after. BH has a good sale going at the moment with $24 off and a "dead cat" included at no extra charge (normally $50).

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the report Larry. I bit the bullet and bought a stereo super cardiod mic which arrived the evening before our recent school concert. I was trying to do so many things concurrently, operating the camera remotely from my phone, taking stills, taking video, playing/singing, sharing my music with a gal who'd forgotten hers, and shooing away a couple of teachers who kept standing in front of the camera during the performance. I forgot to plug the mic into the camera! So all I have is the (poor) sound from the Panasonic built-in mics  :-[