four season TT
- Thread starter termar7
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Jammer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Posts
- 1,491
Look for some threads on winter living.
Short answer is that condensation and heat loss are enough of a problem in any RV that long-term winter use isn't especially practical. On the other hand most RVs can be used for a ski trip without any special winter features though they may have to be run dry, and most RVs can be run in cold weather down to the low 20s with only basic precautions regarding freezing water and sewer lines.
A few people have run a TT over the winter while building a house or something and it can work. Usually they skirt it with plywood or straw bales or something. A fair amount of fussing is required to keep the hookups thawed in truly cold weather.
Arctic Fox is one maker that offers cold-weather options including double-glazed windows. But without thicker walls to make room for enough insulation, an interior vapor barrier, and a porous exterior wall, it's hard for me to imagine that these TTs would be anything other than a moldy mess after a few years of winter operation.
Short answer is that condensation and heat loss are enough of a problem in any RV that long-term winter use isn't especially practical. On the other hand most RVs can be used for a ski trip without any special winter features though they may have to be run dry, and most RVs can be run in cold weather down to the low 20s with only basic precautions regarding freezing water and sewer lines.
A few people have run a TT over the winter while building a house or something and it can work. Usually they skirt it with plywood or straw bales or something. A fair amount of fussing is required to keep the hookups thawed in truly cold weather.
Arctic Fox is one maker that offers cold-weather options including double-glazed windows. But without thicker walls to make room for enough insulation, an interior vapor barrier, and a porous exterior wall, it's hard for me to imagine that these TTs would be anything other than a moldy mess after a few years of winter operation.
Bob Maxwell
Moderator Emeritus
Welcome Termar7! As you've seen, people do respond here. There are diesel and gas mh fans here and those that prefer pull-alongs and someone likes every model ever produced. So, when you have a question, ask away.;D
Many workcampers have assignments in cold weather areas and have used both 5Ws and TTs with good insulation packages and a new skill set to survive and thrive. Check winter camping threads using search. There are builders that specialize in getting such units read for extra $$$.
We also have a live chat every Wed nt at 7pm Mountain named the Virtual Campfire [see the top right of this page.] Come join us!
Many workcampers have assignments in cold weather areas and have used both 5Ws and TTs with good insulation packages and a new skill set to survive and thrive. Check winter camping threads using search. There are builders that specialize in getting such units read for extra $$$.
We also have a live chat every Wed nt at 7pm Mountain named the Virtual Campfire [see the top right of this page.] Come join us!
ZuniJayne
Well-known member
Welcome to the Forum!
I have an Arctic Fox travel trailer. I would consider it a 3 and 3/4-season rig. It has R-9 in the walls and R-19 in the ceiling. The furnace, when running, is ducted around the water and holding tanks to keep them from freezing.
It doesn't have dual pane windows, and I wish it did. Many Canadian models do. You can put the "plastic wrap" type of film on the inside windows to help insulate in winter.
I wintered once in it at 7500 feet with no power source other than the solar and a couple of generator hours daily with a Honda EU2001. Yes, there was condensation, and when it got below 20 degrees there was ice on the inside of the windows, but I made it. <g> I also skirted it with one-inch foamboard and that made a BIG difference.
Here's the trade-off. A well-built trailer is much heavier than the "vacation" class ones. Unless you are just going to sit in one place and have a "pro" move your trailer, you have to consider a tow vehicle. At a loaded weight of just under 10k, my Fox is at the safe towing limit of my 3/4 ton truck.
Also, the higher end brands do not usually make anything shorter than 34-36 feet. If you only go to RV parks or the wide-open spaces, this will not be a problem. However, if you like primitive campgrounds or boondocking in the National Forests, the larger length can be a serious hindrance.
Also, I looked at high end SERIOUSLY 4-season fifth wheels by Teton. They are made extremely well, but only come in fifth-wheels and are not towable by a 3/4 ton truck. Some even require a medium duty truck to pull them.
New Horizons is another excellent brand. They are know for fifth wheels but I have seen one travel trailer by them.
Excel is another excellent brand, but again, usually fifth wheels only.
If you could tell us more about how you plan to use the RV, we could give you better information.
I have an Arctic Fox travel trailer. I would consider it a 3 and 3/4-season rig. It has R-9 in the walls and R-19 in the ceiling. The furnace, when running, is ducted around the water and holding tanks to keep them from freezing.
It doesn't have dual pane windows, and I wish it did. Many Canadian models do. You can put the "plastic wrap" type of film on the inside windows to help insulate in winter.
I wintered once in it at 7500 feet with no power source other than the solar and a couple of generator hours daily with a Honda EU2001. Yes, there was condensation, and when it got below 20 degrees there was ice on the inside of the windows, but I made it. <g> I also skirted it with one-inch foamboard and that made a BIG difference.
Here's the trade-off. A well-built trailer is much heavier than the "vacation" class ones. Unless you are just going to sit in one place and have a "pro" move your trailer, you have to consider a tow vehicle. At a loaded weight of just under 10k, my Fox is at the safe towing limit of my 3/4 ton truck.
Also, the higher end brands do not usually make anything shorter than 34-36 feet. If you only go to RV parks or the wide-open spaces, this will not be a problem. However, if you like primitive campgrounds or boondocking in the National Forests, the larger length can be a serious hindrance.
Also, I looked at high end SERIOUSLY 4-season fifth wheels by Teton. They are made extremely well, but only come in fifth-wheels and are not towable by a 3/4 ton truck. Some even require a medium duty truck to pull them.
New Horizons is another excellent brand. They are know for fifth wheels but I have seen one travel trailer by them.
Excel is another excellent brand, but again, usually fifth wheels only.
If you could tell us more about how you plan to use the RV, we could give you better information.
Thanks so much ZuniJayne for answering with some excellent words of wisdom!! We are really planning to go where "good" weather is each season... AZ winters, Northern CA summers where r kids and grandkids are. But we would like to also sit in Oregon coastal storms.. where we used to live... miss those! and make occassional trips elsewhere. My dh is mainly looking at 1 ton diesel, Dodge or Ford - used. He is well aware of the model yrs to steer clear of, have found a few, mainly in Texas... hopefully if we really want to see one, someone would not buy it before we could get there... we are in Northern CA at present. Sold our land and have the money to invest in used only. We have looked at a couple of used Artic Fox 27T with dual pane windows... understand that is a must for cold... and even hot weather. Sounds as though you would agree! Again thanks for responding! Hope 2 see u down the road!! ter
ZuniJayne
Well-known member
ter,
I know you will do great no matter what you get. If I had to do it over again, I'd get dual pane windows in my Fox. Although I kinda remember that that wasn't an option when I ordered it.
Here's another tip: get the biggest refrigerator you can afford and will fit in your rig. I upgraded to the available 7.5 cubic ft model in my Fox, and it isn't big enough most of the time.
I think a one-ton truck for the 27t is a must, although it doesn't necessarily need to be a dually. A dually is a serious pain to run around in when you aren't hitched up. You might think of investing in bicycles or small motor scooters to get around on when you are parked. I just got one of these:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/151/0/specs.aspx
..and am getting a receiver/hitch put on the FRAME of my Fox to carry it. The square bumper found on the back of trailers is only strong enough for a spare tire, not one or two two hundred pound scooters.
Go over those used Foxes VERY thoroughly, and especially check for leaks and dry rot. The design on the lower lip of the slideout is especially vulnerable. There are few used Foxes on the market because folks usually KEEP them. There is an Arctic Fox owner's forum, but I am not active in it.
If you have any questions for me (or anyone else) just fire away!
I know you will do great no matter what you get. If I had to do it over again, I'd get dual pane windows in my Fox. Although I kinda remember that that wasn't an option when I ordered it.
Here's another tip: get the biggest refrigerator you can afford and will fit in your rig. I upgraded to the available 7.5 cubic ft model in my Fox, and it isn't big enough most of the time.
I think a one-ton truck for the 27t is a must, although it doesn't necessarily need to be a dually. A dually is a serious pain to run around in when you aren't hitched up. You might think of investing in bicycles or small motor scooters to get around on when you are parked. I just got one of these:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/151/0/specs.aspx
..and am getting a receiver/hitch put on the FRAME of my Fox to carry it. The square bumper found on the back of trailers is only strong enough for a spare tire, not one or two two hundred pound scooters.
Go over those used Foxes VERY thoroughly, and especially check for leaks and dry rot. The design on the lower lip of the slideout is especially vulnerable. There are few used Foxes on the market because folks usually KEEP them. There is an Arctic Fox owner's forum, but I am not active in it.
If you have any questions for me (or anyone else) just fire away!
Thank you again, ZuniJayne!! You are very helpful in your ideas... look forward to continued convers with u, especially since u have a Fox and that is our real choice! The suggestion about looking closely at used, especially for dry rot is good! Thanks again. ter
