Fulltime in Minnesota

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p38fln

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2022
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172
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Minnesota
We are moving into our old but in good condition 32 foot travel trailer. Yes, I know, everyone says they're going to live in a travel trailer in a frigid northern winter and then gives up on it but we're updating our travel trailer right now to handle the northern winter. Step 1 was to remove all the god awful Polybutylene plumbing, step 2 was to get PEX run to replace it. So far, I've only got the bathroom sink, shower and water heater hooked back up, but that's enough to meet the bare minimum for a residence in Minnesota (Cooking and bathing facilities). I have to take the toilet apart, it's got a leak somewhere and sprays water all over the floor as soon as water pressure is applied. The kitchen is on the opposite side of the trailer from all the other water for some reason, the original design had long water pipes route under the cabinets next to the passenger side tires to go from the water heater to the kitchen sink. I checked, it's freaking cold in that compartment so my plan is to just run new PEX pipes directly across the floor from the bathroom to the kitchen and cover them with a PEX walkway cover so they don't freeze.

I've already crawled from one end of the roof to the other with a roll of butyl tape shoving it in every crack I could find, we didn't get this camper early enough to strip all the old caulking out and totally redo it this year unfortunately. I also covered the roof vents with those "use your vents while your going down the road" vent covers that look like small air conditioners, the ones from Camco that don't have side vents. This way we can still open the bathroom vent to let humidity out when taking a shower without having a small gust of wind suck all the heat out.

I've also updated the water flow path so it can be filled from the city water port, the gravity feed seems like it would be an unholy pain in the butt when its 20 below zero. I'm planning on getting an on-demand self priming water pump similar to the one that pulls from the freshwater tank in the camper to pull water out of containers that I fill at the well pump, which is the only source of water in the winter time. This will probably be a 120 volt pump, I'm not sure how to get 12 volt power to the outside without drilling holes.

I'm also going to get heating pads for the holding tanks so they can still be emptied in January without pouring 5 gallons of RV antifreeze into them. Might still need some RV antifreeze for the tanks even with the heating pads but not as much.

My requirement is not matter what I do, I still want to be able to take the travel trailer to a campground and hook up to normal camper stuff, so I'm not going to hardwire the power or remove the holding tanks.
 
You'll find out pretty fast that even with heated tanks, the blade valves for dumping get frozen really quick. Also, you usually have a couple inches of maybe even a foot of pvc the comes off the black or grey tanks before reaching the blade valve and that section will freeze solid as a rock. I could go on a list of problems you'll encounter this winter as a fellow Minnesotan, but I'll leave it at that amd wish you good luck.
 
Agree with Jkoht - the dump valves in nearly all trailers are fully exposed and freeze early and hard. You will want to keep RV antifreeze in the waste tanks so that the wet side of the valves doesn't freeze hard, and you probably need some sort of insulation pack around the outside. Might want some heat tape on the gravity filler tube as well if you expect to use it on 0 F mornings.
 
Jkoht said:
You'll find out pretty fast that even with heated tanks, the blade valves for dumping get frozen really quick. Also, you usually have a couple inches of maybe even a foot of pvc the comes off the black or grey tanks before reaching the blade valve and that section will freeze solid as a rock. I could go on a list of problems you'll encounter this winter as a fellow Minnesotan, but I'll leave it at that amd wish you good luck.
Click to expand...
Yes, heating pads on the tanks and then smaller pads on the PVC pipes is the plan
For the tanks:

For the PVC:

Probably still dump a gallon of antifreeze in when its really cold
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
Agree with Jkoht - the dump valves in nearly all trailers are fully exposed and freeze early and hard. You will want to keep RV antifreeze in the waste tanks so that the wet side of the valves doesn't freeze hard, and you probably need some sort of insulation pack around the outside. Might want some heat tape on the gravity filler tube as well if you expect to use it on 0 F mornings.
Click to expand...
I'm going to fill it through the city water connection, that comes in through the bathroom sink cabinet which has plenty of heat since the ducts for the bathroom and bedroom both pass through the same space. I tried the gravity feed a few weeks ago, even using a hose that fit almost perfectly into the opening it made an unholy muddy mess and took almost 20 minutes to fill up, I can only imagine the ice puddle it would make in the winter.

Gary RV_Wizard said:
Those "elbow pipe pads" look like a great solution for winter use. Had not seen them before.
Click to expand...
I will keep this updated as the weather gets colder, I have a feeling these things will work fine until it gets down to below zero for the highs then I may need to add insulation to keep them from freezing
 
p38fln said:
We are moving into our old but in good condition 32 foot travel trailer. Yes, I know, everyone says they're going to live in a travel trailer in a frigid northern winter and then gives up on it but we're updating our travel trailer right now to handle the northern winter. Step 1 was to remove all the god awful Polybutylene plumbing, step 2 was to get PEX run to replace it. So far, I've only got the bathroom sink, shower and water heater hooked back up, but that's enough to meet the bare minimum for a residence in Minnesota (Cooking and bathing facilities). I have to take the toilet apart, it's got a leak somewhere and sprays water all over the floor as soon as water pressure is applied. The kitchen is on the opposite side of the trailer from all the other water for some reason, the original design had long water pipes route under the cabinets next to the passenger side tires to go from the water heater to the kitchen sink. I checked, it's freaking cold in that compartment so my plan is to just run new PEX pipes directly across the floor from the bathroom to the kitchen and cover them with a PEX walkway cover so they don't freeze.

I've already crawled from one end of the roof to the other with a roll of butyl tape shoving it in every crack I could find, we didn't get this camper early enough to strip all the old caulking out and totally redo it this year unfortunately. I also covered the roof vents with those "use your vents while your going down the road" vent covers that look like small air conditioners, the ones from Camco that don't have side vents. This way we can still open the bathroom vent to let humidity out when taking a shower without having a small gust of wind suck all the heat out.

I've also updated the water flow path so it can be filled from the city water port, the gravity feed seems like it would be an unholy pain in the butt when its 20 below zero. I'm planning on getting an on-demand self priming water pump similar to the one that pulls from the freshwater tank in the camper to pull water out of containers that I fill at the well pump, which is the only source of water in the winter time. This will probably be a 120 volt pump, I'm not sure how to get 12 volt power to the outside without drilling holes.

I'm also going to get heating pads for the holding tanks so they can still be emptied in January without pouring 5 gallons of RV antifreeze into them. Might still need some RV antifreeze for the tanks even with the heating pads but not as much.

My requirement is not matter what I do, I still want to be able to take the travel trailer to a campground and hook up to normal camper stuff, so I'm not going to hardwire the power or remove the holding tanks.
Click to expand...
So I'm guessing that shorts, tshirts and flip flops are out of the question? :)
 
We're about 45 minutes away from Duluth, which is *just* far enough away to have a true summer. Any closer and you get summer on one weekend in July when it gets all the way up to 85 for a few hours.
 
Jkoht said:
You'll find out pretty fast that even with heated tanks, the blade valves for dumping get frozen really quick. Also, you usually have a couple inches of maybe even a foot of pvc the comes off the black or grey tanks before reaching the blade valve and that section will freeze solid as a rock. I could go on a list of problems you'll encounter this winter as a fellow Minnesotan, but I'll leave it at that amd wish you good luck.
Click to expand...
p38fln said:
We are moving into our old but in good condition 32 foot travel trailer. Yes, I know, everyone says they're going to live in a travel trailer in a frigid northern winter and then gives up on it but we're updating our travel trailer right now to handle the northern winter. Step 1 was to remove all the god awful Polybutylene plumbing, step 2 was to get PEX run to replace it. So far, I've only got the bathroom sink, shower and water heater hooked back up, but that's enough to meet the bare minimum for a residence in Minnesota (Cooking and bathing facilities). I have to take the toilet apart, it's got a leak somewhere and sprays water all over the floor as soon as water pressure is applied. The kitchen is on the opposite side of the trailer from all the other water for some reason, the original design had long water pipes route under the cabinets next to the passenger side tires to go from the water heater to the kitchen sink. I checked, it's freaking cold in that compartment so my plan is to just run new PEX pipes directly across the floor from the bathroom to the kitchen and cover them with a PEX walkway cover so they don't freeze.

I've already crawled from one end of the roof to the other with a roll of butyl tape shoving it in every crack I could find, we didn't get this camper early enough to strip all the old caulking out and totally redo it this year unfortunately. I also covered the roof vents with those "use your vents while your going down the road" vent covers that look like small air conditioners, the ones from Camco that don't have side vents. This way we can still open the bathroom vent to let humidity out when taking a shower without having a small gust of wind suck all the heat out.

I've also updated the water flow path so it can be filled from the city water port, the gravity feed seems like it would be an unholy pain in the butt when its 20 below zero. I'm planning on getting an on-demand self priming water pump similar to the one that pulls from the freshwater tank in the camper to pull water out of containers that I fill at the well pump, which is the only source of water in the winter time. This will probably be a 120 volt pump, I'm not sure how to get 12 volt power to the outside without drilling holes.

I'm also going to get heating pads for the holding tanks so they can still be emptied in January without pouring 5 gallons of RV antifreeze into them. Might still need some RV antifreeze for the tanks even with the heating pads but not as much.

My requirement is not matter what I do, I still want to be able to take the travel trailer to a campground and hook up to normal camper stuff, so I'm not going to hardwire the power or remove the holding tanks.
Click to expand...
Hello from a fellow Minnesotan. I'm looking forward to your updates.
 
The camper is a 1991 Citation 32'N, the city water comes in under the bathroom sink, then goes to the back to the water heater. City water lines and hot water lines continue around the RV in a U shape back to the kitchen on the other side. Ductwork follows the pipes back to the rear bedroom, so I'm leaving the door open that goes under the bunk to allow heated air to get to the tank.

When I have more money saved up, I'll swap the 6 gallon water heater for a Suburban tankless since those have freeze protection and give more than 5 minute showers. For now, I have some extremely cheap very suspicious looking ventless propane water heater from Camping world rigged up on an interior wall with only the pipe going to the freshwater tank and pump still connected under the bunk. I think the propane line going to the tankless heater is too small, it barely heats the water up and the flame doesn't really get any hotter once I turn the knob past 50% or so. It's only a 1/4" ID line.

I've replaced the locks on the under-bunk rear access so the panel will shut correctly and keep the freezing air out.

Currently in the process of putting clear window film over all the windows, it looks like its raining inside whenever it gets below freezing right now and that can't be good.

I'm going to redo the kitchen plumbing to run overhead down the hallway instead of down the unheated passenger side compartments, it's going to look pretty industrial but I'd rather have visible water lines than burst water pipes.
 
darsben said:
How far down are the sewer lines if shallow and there's a low spot things will freeze then maybe no more dumping and you are left with full tanks to keep from freezing
Click to expand...
I'm using a blue boy to empty the tanks into an on-site sewage tank that itself gets sucked out once a week. Not the most fun solution but it works.
 
First night that was truly a hard freeze, the water lines to our "campsite" were all disconnected and blown out. I got a 110 volt impeller pump and used it to refill the onboard water tank using a 5 gallon pail with the same bypass valve setup I was using to fill it with city water. It took 5 trips, and I seem to have damaged the 12 volt pump in the process - somehow some rocks got sucked up although the water came from the same well pump as before. My theory is the rocks got into the sections of garden hose as I was laying them out. I found one jammed in the check valve on the side of the trailer which allowed almost all of the water to jet back out at a remarkable rate as soon as the onboard pump was turned on. I have now attached an in-line screen just before the 12 volt pump, but I think I will need to replace the pump. It's pumping fine with good pressure but it won't shut down properly anymore, cycles on and off rapidly about every other second. I think some of the crap from filling it with a bucket got into the pressure switch. I took the supply side of the hose off the water pump and water didn't come pouring back out so its internal check valve seems fine. It kept the rapid cycling behavior even after I ran 225 feet of hose to the well pump and hooked the city water back up when it got above freezing for a few hours yesterday, check valve appears to be screwed up. For now I'm just cycling power to it when I want to use it.

During this period of freezing nights and slightly above freezing days, I got permission from the site owner to hook up a garden hose directly to the well pump as long as I unhook it immediately after use. Plan is to continue this once it gets below freezing, but with the use of heated garden hoses (once I save up the money to buy them).

Another fun event - the seal on the pipe from the greywater tank to the discharge line failed again, its got a pretty serious leak. I'm glad it was the greywater tank that did this and not the other one...but now I have to figure out how to properly reattach it.
 
Water pump is still rapidly cycling, I took the pressure switch off and like a total idiot hit the power switch... It blew the diaphragm out along with a half inch wide jet of white water that sprayed on the walls. I put it back together and tried adjusting the pressure switch, all I managed to do was get it to turn on and stay on. Can't find any leaks anywhere, not even a leaking faucet, so I'm very confused. I'm thinking of putting the old pump back on (which just had an issue of getting weak with old age) to see if its the pump leaking internally causing the issue.

Beautiful weekend, probably the last nice weekend of the year. Supposed to be in the 60's and possibly low 70's.
 
darsben said:
What's your plan when these things happen when it's below freezing. You don't seem very mechanically adept. Find a room somewhere and be safe
Click to expand...
If it happens below freezing and isn't repairable, I'll use a 5 gallon bucket with a pump, which I've already purchased and go buy another one for $60 at Camping World the next day that it's open. I'm not a moron. Maybe instead of hurling insults you could say something constructive?

oh my god oh my god the water pump is cycling when the water is off whatever will I do? Gee I don't know, turn off the damn switch unless I'm using it? I'm not that stupid.
 
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