Garter snakes in AK?

[DonTom]

From this thread here.

I actually agree with you.

That will save you another steak.

But it really cannot be proven either way. 100 years ago or so somebody could have caught a few garter snakes in Canada and let them go in AK near the Stikine River. That's all it would take. Female Common Gartersnakes sometimes have 100 young at a time, but around 30 is a lot more common. Still a fast reproduction rate for any snake. But most common garter snakes are male. It's not well balanced between male and female with common garter snakes.

But the fact that the common garter snake range is continuous in that area makes be believe they are native to that area. But that is only weak evidence, not proof. Man could have extended the range. But since the Stikine River is a suitable habitat for these snakes, which is well proven by their survival there, there is no reasonable reason to believe its natural range ends before there, IMO.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tulecreeper]

Yes, I could see if there were a mountain range, or several very wide rivers or other unappealing habitat between their Canadian and AK range that could indicate that they may have been introduced to AK. Since the range seems to pretty much be unbroken it a toss-up.

Kind of like the AR Game & Fish saying there are no mountain lions in AR. Bull...my wife saw a dead one on the side of the road only months after we moved there, and I saw one walking out of the woods behind our shop in 2016. My educated guess, as a Fish & Game retiree, is that if they don't admit they are there they don't have to spend the money to manage for them, and make those unpopular public decisions as to whether or not they can be shot/hunted/depredated.

 

[Onyrlef]

Yes, I could see if there were a mountain range, or several very wide rivers or other unappealing habitat between their Canadian and AK range that could indicate that they may have been introduced to AK. Since the range seems to pretty much be unbroken it a toss-up.

Kind of like the AR Game & Fish saying there are no mountain lions in AR. Bull...my wife saw a dead one on the side of the road only months after we moved there, and I saw one walking out of the woods behind our shop in 2016. My educated guess, as a Fish & Game retiree, is that if they don't admit they are there they don't have to spend the money to manage for them, and make those unpopular public decisions as to whether or not they can be shot/hunted/depredated.

Most everyone knows Garter Snakes can't climb mtns. due to their slippery skin ( they just slide back down) and are poor swimmers. Those Mtn. Lions you thought you saw in Arkansas were likely stray Texas house cats, they're bigger down here.

 

[Chef Duane]

Those Mtn. Lions you thought you saw in Arkansas were likely stray Texas house cats, they're bigger down here.

Yeah Buddy.

 

[DonTom]

Most everyone knows Garter Snakes can't climb mtns. due to their slippery skin ( they just slide back down) and are poor swimmers.

I cannot tell if you're being serious or not. All snakes can swim and garter snakes, being closely related to the water snakes are excellent swimmers and often eat fish. And some you find on mtn tops above 10,000 feet elevation.

-Don- Colfax, CA

 

[Skookum]

Why would AK not have garter snakes? They're all over the Northwest so I assume they would be up there and all along the West Coast of Canada as well

 

[DonTom]

Yes, I could see if there were a mountain range, or several very wide rivers or other unappealing habitat between their Canadian and AK range that could indicate that they may have been introduced to AK. Since the range seems to pretty much be unbroken it a toss-up.

Kind of like the AR Game & Fish saying there are no mountain lions in AR. Bull...my wife saw a dead one on the side of the road only months after we moved there, and I saw one walking out of the woods behind our shop in 2016. My educated guess, as a Fish & Game retiree, is that if they don't admit they are there they don't have to spend the money to manage for them, and make those unpopular public decisions as to whether or not they can be shot/hunted/depredated.

I can think of only one reptile where I think they figured out the true native range. The CA Legless lizard has been found within a few feet of the south side of the wide river in the northern part of Antioch, CA, but no record of it north of the river--yet. And they do not like to swim.

FWIW, did you know the Eastern Diamond Back Rattlesnake has been found in the ocean and has been known to swim all the way to all of the keys? Sometime the truth about snakes is as surprising as the endless BS.

-Don- Colfax, CA

 

[DonTom]

Why would AK not have garter snakes? They're all over the Northwest so I assume they would be up there and all along the West Coast of Canada as well

Agreed, but countless websites say there are NO native snakes in AK. There is no doubt about the garter snakes being in extreme SE AK, but not everybody believes these are native.

But I believe they are native to AK, perhaps for more than millions of years (longer than us!). But this cannot be proven either way. But the range of them is continuous all the way to AK where the range ends probably just north of the Stikine River. AFAIK, all the way up to there, there is no break in its preferred habitat. Perhaps the warmer season is too short for them much above that point. Even that is guesswork. it is unscientific to say something does NOT exist somewhere.

-Don- (getting my free charge in Colfax, CA)

 

[Wasillaguy]

Kind of like the AR Game & Fish saying there are no mountain lions in AR.

Missouri fish/game were also adamant that there were no mountain lions, until a good 'Ole boy brought them a dead one. Then they wanted to fine him for shooting it.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Most everyone knows Garter Snakes can't climb mtns. due to their slippery skin ( they just slide back down) and are poor swimmers. Those Mtn. Lions you thought you saw in Arkansas were likely stray Texas house cats, they're bigger down here.

If the mountain range is long enough and high enough, and the climate is detrimental to reptilian physiology, they ain't goin' over it.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Missouri fish/game were also adamant that there were no mountain lions, until a good 'Ole boy brought them a dead one. Then they wanted to fine him for shooting it.

I think AR Game & Fish says there is no 'resident' mountain lion population in the state, the few that are seen are transients. But it is still Illegal to shoot them.

 

[Chef Duane]

We don't have many mountain lions in this part of Texas. But there are a lot of cougars.

 

[1stimerver]

Yeah Buddy.

View attachment 173052

That has to be a Maine Coon Cat. Friend of mine had one and it was bigger than my 2 year old springer spaniel !!!! That is one cat my dog wouldn't be chasing.

Safe travels and all the best

 

[1stimerver]

Why would AK not have garter snakes? They're all over the Northwest so I assume they would be up there and all along the West Coast of Canada as well

Seen them in Maine, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Ohio. Cant understand why they would'nt be found in AK..

I heard there we no snakes in Taiwan until the Japanese brought them in.. Aparently they like to eat them.

Google snake alley in Taipei.

Safe travels and all the best.

 

[DonTom]

If the mountain range is long enough and high enough, and the climate is detrimental to reptilian physiology, they ain't goin' over it.

In the lower 48 states, I only know of one mountain like that.
Not counting the very base, more than around 25% up Humphreys Peak in AZ, no reptiles or amphibians ever found.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

I heard there we no snakes in Taiwan

What you heard is not true.

Several snakes only found in Tawain, and nowhere else on earth. See here.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Onyrlef]

What you heard is not true.

Several snakes only found in Tawain, and nowhere else on earth. See here.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Context matters, he said "......until the Japanese brought them in". He also said the Japanese apparently like to eat snakes, so it's plausible that during the near famine times of WWII in Japan they ate snake until they ran out of them, the sole survivors would be the snakes which got out of the mess hall during the Japanese occupation of Taiwan. Which would make for an interesting History Channel documentary. And which is btw., my idea and if I see it on the guide somebody on here is going to be in court.

 

[1stimerver]

What you heard is not true.

Several snakes only found in Tawain, and nowhere else on earth. See here.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Thanks Don, great write-up. I stand corrected. Its like the man said "the facts will set you free.."
It was a Taiwanese guy who blamed the japanese for the snakes on taiwan while we toured Snake Alley. Guess I shouldn't be surprised..
Safe travels and all the best.

 

[DonTom]

It was a Taiwanese guy who blamed the japanese for the snakes on taiwan while we toured Snake Alley.

The false but very popular stories I have heard about snakes are endless.

Such as mongooses were let loose in Hawaii to get rid of the snakes.

But there were NEVER any known native snakes in Hawaii. But IIRC, mongooses were let go in Hawaii, to eat off the rat that was destroying the sugarcane crop. And that caused a big mess. Hawaii is more screwed up nature-wise (by humans, of course) than is Florida--and that is saying a lot.

But I think the most common nonsense I hear is how juvenile snakes are more venomous and dangerous than adults of the same species. Pure nonsense but it is repeated so often that many believe it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Chef Duane]

The false but very popular stories I have heard about snakes are endless.
Pure nonsense but it is repeated so often that many believe it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

I was once told by a Professor of Something that the venom of spitting cobras of the genera Naja and Hemachatus was actually flammable and that if they spit at you near a flame it will actually catch fire. Well, I later determined that that is actually BS but he said that was the basis for the legend of dragons - reptiles that can spit fire. We all know that is a bunch of nonsense. Except, of course, for Godzilla.