Gas vs diesel pusher

[seilerbird]

We are in the market for a new motorhome and we are thinking about a 38 foot Class A diesel pusher. What are the advantages and disadvantages of a diesel over a gas engine. What are the problems associated with a rig that large as far as finding campsites in national parks that we would be able to fit into. We currently have a 32 foot and have had no problems finding a spot. Are there any manufacturers that you can recommend or are there any manufacturers we should avoid? Thanks.

 

[Tom]

Here's an article in our library on gas vs diesel.  *

You can expect to be more limited in your choice of campgrounds with a 38 foot coach than a 32 footer.

 

[Just Lou]

Folks here don't make a habit of "bad mouthing" or "promoting" any particular coach manufacturer or model.  We all have our preferences and some here are even lucky enough to own there favorite.

I suggest you shop around on the Internet (rv trader/sale sites) and narrow your choices a bit.  Find something that sounds like it would fit your needs.  Go see a few(or many).  Check each manufacturers web site and see where your choice of RV ranks in their line of products.  Compare product lines between manufacturers for a valid model to model comparison.

Questions like "is Winnebago better than Fleetwood?" cannot be intelligently answered.  Each Company makes many price and quality levels of coaches from the entry level to the ultra luxurious. 

Even with all that said;

When you do have questions about a particular coach make, model, size, type, quality, etc...  do not hesitate to ask for advice or opinion.  Both will be offered freely and in good faith.  Good luck with your search.

It's always interesting and exciting to watch the process unfold and see folks wind up with their dream. 

 

 

[Tom]

Great response and advice Lou. Wish I could have said it as succinctly as that.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Don't overlook the possibility of a gas pusher or a front diesel (FRED).  One of the classic advantages  of the diesel motorhome is in fact not related at all to being diesel. It's the noise advantage of a rear engine. Workhorse now has a rear gas chassis and there are several coaches built on it in sizes up to around 38 feet:
    *  Forest River Georgetown
    * Georgie Boy Cruise Master
    * Holiday Rambler Vacationer
    * Itasca Latitude
    * Monaco LaPalma
    * Rexhall Aerbus
    * Winnebago Destination

The front engine diesel (FRED) has also proven popular and it too is available up to 38 feet. Tiffin builds an Allegro model on this chassis that offers excellent fuel economy (10+). While it is not as quite in the cab as a rear engine, owners report being very happy with it (you might search here for FRED to see reports).

Modern front engine designs have substantially lowered the engine hump (dog house) and improved heat & noise insulation, so the traditional disadvantage of a front engine is much reduced.

 

[Marsha/CA]

When we were researching whether to get a gas engine vs a diesel engine we considered several things

*We were pulling a heavy load (a steel 3 horse trailer weighting close to 8,000 lbs), so we wanted the capability to do that.  Many of the gas engines were built on chassis that could not handle that weight load. 

*Also we live out west and go up and down many steep grades so we wanted the torque that could handle that situation as well.

What we found is that the diesel was capable of both handling the weight load and had the torque to climb/desend the steep grades.  We also found with the freighliner chassis we were able to do tight turns because of the turning radius of the front wheels.  We really liked that option.  So we bought a diesel. 

After owning it for over 5 years, we are still glad we went with diesel, not only for the quietness that Gary mentioned because the engine is in the back; but for the power and easy of handling.  However, now that fuel is so high, and in most instances diesel is more expensive than gas, we question our choice...not really.  You should also know that basic maintenance is a bit higher for the diesels. 

Marsha~

 

[ArdraF]

Go see a few (or many)

Hi Seilerbird,

That's really good advice.  The more you go into the better!  While looking, compare quality.  If you see poor "fit and finish" then you might want to avoid that make or model.  Some people fall in love with a specific floor plan and that's okay, but not if it means ignoring quality.  Often you'll find a similar floor plan in a better quality coach.  So attend as many RV shows as you can.  It will help immensely.  Sit on the sofas and chairs, lie on the bed, sit on the toilet seat, sit in the driver's seat, look in the underbays, and generally see how well it suits your needs.

Our transition from Class C gas to Class A diesel pusher came about as we were chugging up over the 11,000+ elevation on I-70 at the Eisenhower Tunnel.  At that elevation, the engine has to work a lot harder and at the top we were down to about 20-25 mph.  On the last downshift Jerry let me know that we needed something with more ooomph so it wasn't long before we had a Monaco 34-food Windsor DP.  Diesels are definitely quieter with the rear engine, perform better on long grades and at high elevations, and the engines last a long time.  But not everyone would agree so it's good to also test drive coaches that interest you.  If you join, for example, the Family Motor Coach Assn. (FMCA) and attend their rallies, the salespeople are more than happy to let you test drive their coaches.  That's where you learn about handling, turning radius, ride comfort, and a multitude of other things that you can only learn by driving.

At one of our first FMCA rallies we met a really nice couple who were on the sales end.  When leaving for dinner one night, they offered us a ride downtown (no toad then) and suggested we drive the RV even though they already knew we weren't in the market for a new one.  It was neat to be able to drive a 40-foot DP without any obligation to buy.  A few years later we got a 40-foot DP so it wasn't a totally wasted effort on their part even though we didn't buy their brand.  The point is that we eventually moved into the diesel market from the gas market and their offer of a ride helped us along in that direction.

ArdraF

 

[randco]

This is a subject that I get so torn over.  We bought a used 33' National Seabreeze in the mid 90's, had a ball with it.  I was a good coach for us.  Sold it after a couple of years because we just didn't use it enough.  Now, we are about a year away from retirement, and the time to get a good deal on a coach is very near.  I expect that any really good deals will happen around the end of the year and into the first quarter of next year.  I read the article in the library "gas vs. diesel", and have read countless other threads regarding the same issue.  It's a tough decision.  We won't be full timing, but we will probably travel at least 6-7 months out of the year.  As for the driving conditions, I would say anywhere and everywhere.  Our new home base (stick house) will be in north Georgia so the Blue Ridge mountains will be nearby.  We want to plan a trip to Alaska, visit Yellowstone and the other western parks.  I was raised in Colorado, so we will be headed there for sure.

I have been thinking mid-level Class A coaches, Allegro, Mountain Aire, Admiral SE, Adventurer, Dolphin and Suncruiser all in the 3-5 year old range and all with a maximum mileage of less than 43.750 miles.  However, I have seen some nice "older" DP's.

At the present cost of fuel it looks like $3.955 for Gas and $4.603 for Diesel. After all of my reading it seems that gassers get at best 8 mpg and DP's get 10. That means $0.494/mile for the gasser and $0.460/mile for the DP. This means that if I drove 20,000 miles I would have spent $681.50 more in fuel cost, but I would have probably saved that much in routine maintenance.

If I use a 2003 Tiffin Allegro Bay 36LB on a Workhorse Chassis the NADA Low Retail is $51,310 and a 2003 Tiffin Allegro Bus 35RP with a 300 Cummins the NADA Low Retail is $86,880. That is a difference of $35,570. I can buy a hell of a lot of gas with the money I save on the initial cost.

I know I can go older on the DP to get the price down but I will more than likely have more upkeep expense.  I'm sure that a lot of you have gone through this.  Any of your expertise will be greatly appreciated.

 

[seilerbird]

Thanks to all of you for your opinions. We just got into the market and we are in no rush to buy. We plan on going to many many RV dealers and kick tires. We are full timers and pass quite a few dealerships. I just wanted to get everyones opinion before I started kicking tires so I would be more informed. At this point we are leaning towards a diesel pusher, but we have yet to kick our first tire. Is it customary to take motorhomes for a test drive at dealships if we are just looking or do we have to be very seriously considering a particular model before asking for a test drive?

 

[ArdraF]

Seilerbird,

I would guess that dealers at rallies and RV shows are more lenient in test drives.  Going to a dealer's lot is different in several respects.  Depending of course on the dealer, some may be more high pressure on their home turf.  In that case they might want you to be a serious potential buyer before going for a test drive.  Rallies and RV shows tend to be a little different.  If you go, for example, to FMCA rallies, the coaches are arranged by manufacturer, e.g. all Monaco coaches are in one area and all Winnebago coaches are together in another area.  When the rally is over, the dealer then owns any coach it has committed for that doesn't sell and it has to be driven home so they'll do more test drives as an inducement for you to buy.  In our experience attending such rallies, the salepeople tend to be more low key.  Of course, in the current market they'll be under more pressure from their management and may change strategies.  Some of the group attended the latest FMCA rally in Minnesota and I'd be interested in hearing about whether they encountered more high pressure tactics there than at prevous rallies when when the economy was better.

ArdraF

 

[rjmoore999]

This is a subject that I get so torn over.  We bought a used 33' National Seabreeze in the mid 90's, had a ball with it.  I was a good coach for us.  Sold it after a couple of years because we just didn't use it enough. ..After all of my reading it seems that gassers get at best 8 mpg and DP's get 10.

Well, we bought a very clean '94 National Sea Breeze this year with 81k on the clock. It had two very good owners and while the carpet and upholstery are getting a little tired, my business' mechanic (also an RV'er) thoroughly checked it out and pronounced the engine/tranny and the chassis in fine shape.  We just did a 1,400 mile, completely uneventful trip with an average of just over 9 mpg. Not bad for an old girl! Of course we didn't bring a toad and we kept her cruise control just under 60, but that mileage included running the generator and the dash a/c some of the time. Maybe you sold your Sea Breeze too soon.

Bob