Generator
- Thread starter Carin
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Gizmo100
Well-known member
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- Sep 28, 2018
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You would have to elaborate just a little.....
How long to you plan to boon dock?
How long can your on board batteries run things ( without damaging the batteries)
Do you plan on running anything 110 volts...TV AC Microwave
I'm sure other's will chime in.
How long to you plan to boon dock?
How long can your on board batteries run things ( without damaging the batteries)
Do you plan on running anything 110 volts...TV AC Microwave
I'm sure other's will chime in.
Gizmo100
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2018
- Posts
- 3,065
Carin said:
The microwave = Yes, even with a inverter you would deplete the batteries
A week = Most likely Yes
The refer - I'm assuming on gas but still needs 12 volts = Most likely yes
2 batteries would depend on type of batteries = (Guessing) Yes
I've not done any boon docking to speak of so you may get different answers from those with more experience.
grashley
Well-known member
To use a microwave, a generator is required. Yes, an inverter will work for occasional use, but not for a week.
If it is cool and you use the furnace, batteries may keep you going for a day or two. For a week, a generator is required.
The batteries should keep the fridge going for several days with no other load. Camping for a week, get the generator.
If you will want to use other 120V stuff - like a TV and NOT run the generator to do so, you will also want an inverter to take 12VDC from the battery and convert it to 120VAC. Also need a generator to recharge the batteries.
Interior lighting, slide motors, and lots of other stuff needs battery power, so you want to keep them charged. You definitely do not to try to run on batteries only, then find at the end of your stay the battery is too low to power the slide motor!!!!
If it is cool and you use the furnace, batteries may keep you going for a day or two. For a week, a generator is required.
The batteries should keep the fridge going for several days with no other load. Camping for a week, get the generator.
If you will want to use other 120V stuff - like a TV and NOT run the generator to do so, you will also want an inverter to take 12VDC from the battery and convert it to 120VAC. Also need a generator to recharge the batteries.
Interior lighting, slide motors, and lots of other stuff needs battery power, so you want to keep them charged. You definitely do not to try to run on batteries only, then find at the end of your stay the battery is too low to power the slide motor!!!!
CincyGus
Active member
People that do a lot of boondocking do it by mixing solutions to the problem of spending extended time not hooked to electricity.
Depending on the size of your batteries (Range from group 24 on the lower end of Amp Hour ratings TO group 30 or even golf cart batteries and Lithium batteries if you want more energy storage). So identifying what batteries you have would be step one.
Boondockers also often use solar panels to help recharge their batteries for free (after the initial cost of buying and installing the system). This works great if your in a sunny area such as out west or anywhere and have a stretch of weather with a good 6-8 hours of late morning/early afternoon sun. Cloudy days, your getting a fraction to 0% of your recharge.
Last resort is a generator which can recharge your batteries under any circumstance, as long as you have gas. If the weathers been cloudy and your solar didn't get things charged, you run the genny to recharge. If you don't install solar and just recharge with the genny when the batteries need it.
The big items in your camper that will quickly drain even fully charged batteries are items that produce HEAT (Microwave, Hair Dryer, Toasters and Toaster ovens, space heaters, etc.). Also big "drainers" are furnace blower, fridge if run on electric and not propane, Lights if not LED.
AC won't generally even run without a genny or if it does, you have a very large battery bank but it's not going to run for very long before it drains them.
If your just starting our and are going to be boondocking as you mentioned for a week or so at a time, I would get a 3500 watt Inverter Generator (quieter than open frame Gennies and better for sensitive electronics like tablets, computers, cell phone, circuit boards in your appliances) and skip the solar until you've gained a little experience and decide if boondocking is your thing. I bought a harbor freight PREDATOR inverter Genny because it was cheap and quiet and has good reviews and I am going to use it about 2-3 weeks out of the year at events that won't have electrical hookups. If you want the Best, Get a Honda. Their pricey but they garner the rave reviews of everyone that spends the $$$ to buy them as the most dependable. Many will say to get two of the 2000 watt Honda's and hook them together when you need both to run the AC but you can get by with one if the AC isn't running.
Hope all this helps.
Depending on the size of your batteries (Range from group 24 on the lower end of Amp Hour ratings TO group 30 or even golf cart batteries and Lithium batteries if you want more energy storage). So identifying what batteries you have would be step one.
Boondockers also often use solar panels to help recharge their batteries for free (after the initial cost of buying and installing the system). This works great if your in a sunny area such as out west or anywhere and have a stretch of weather with a good 6-8 hours of late morning/early afternoon sun. Cloudy days, your getting a fraction to 0% of your recharge.
Last resort is a generator which can recharge your batteries under any circumstance, as long as you have gas. If the weathers been cloudy and your solar didn't get things charged, you run the genny to recharge. If you don't install solar and just recharge with the genny when the batteries need it.
The big items in your camper that will quickly drain even fully charged batteries are items that produce HEAT (Microwave, Hair Dryer, Toasters and Toaster ovens, space heaters, etc.). Also big "drainers" are furnace blower, fridge if run on electric and not propane, Lights if not LED.
AC won't generally even run without a genny or if it does, you have a very large battery bank but it's not going to run for very long before it drains them.
If your just starting our and are going to be boondocking as you mentioned for a week or so at a time, I would get a 3500 watt Inverter Generator (quieter than open frame Gennies and better for sensitive electronics like tablets, computers, cell phone, circuit boards in your appliances) and skip the solar until you've gained a little experience and decide if boondocking is your thing. I bought a harbor freight PREDATOR inverter Genny because it was cheap and quiet and has good reviews and I am going to use it about 2-3 weeks out of the year at events that won't have electrical hookups. If you want the Best, Get a Honda. Their pricey but they garner the rave reviews of everyone that spends the $$$ to buy them as the most dependable. Many will say to get two of the 2000 watt Honda's and hook them together when you need both to run the AC but you can get by with one if the AC isn't running.
Hope all this helps.
AStravelers
Well-known member
These two links will give you lots of info to help you understand RV electrical systems, batteries, charging, solar, etc.
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volta.htm
While you may not understand all the details in the two links, it will give you a place to start. Feel free to come back to the forum and ask questions when you run across things which are not totally clear to you.
Also as you read the info, work at relating the info to the equipment in your RV.
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volta.htm
While you may not understand all the details in the two links, it will give you a place to start. Feel free to come back to the forum and ask questions when you run across things which are not totally clear to you.
Also as you read the info, work at relating the info to the equipment in your RV.
The weblinks that AStravelers posted is a must read for folks who do not understand that there are two types of electricity on an RV, 12 volts DV and 120 volts AC. Understanding how things work is very important especially when trouble shooting. For example, an RV type fridge uses heat to circulate an ammonia/hydrogen mixture to cool the inside of a fridge. THe fridge heater is provided by either a 120 volt AC heating element (uses about 250-300 watts) or a propane flame. However, the control board for the fridge is powered by 12 volts DC. Hot water heater also has a 12 volt DC control board and is run either by propane or a 120 volt AC heating element. Lights in an RV are typically 12 volts DC. Your propane furnace uses 12 volts for the control board, thermostat, and forced air fan. In cold climates, a heater can fully deplete a single group 27 battery overnight.
An inverter transforms 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC but unless you have a generator or solar, running microwave via inverted battery power will deplete them in no time.
A generator or another source of power, e.g. solar power large battery banks is a must for extended boondocking.
Not sure of the link taks about power and how that relates to battery capacity if you are using an inverter. Here is what helps me.
Watts: How much energy a device uses regardless of voltage. Watts is equal to voltage multiplied by current in amps. So, if I have a 12 volt light that uses 1 amp, I am using 12 watts per an hour. A 1200 watt microwave that runs on 120 volts AC uses 10 amps of current at that voltage. Here is where it gets interesting. A typical rule of thumb assuming 100% inverter efficiency (not true as most are about 85-90% efficient) is if you wish to run a 120 volt AC item off of invertered battery power, you need to multiply the 120 volt AC current draw by 10 to estimate current draw at 12 volts DC. For example, my microwave draws 10 amps of current at 120 volts AC. When running my microwave via the inverter, it draws 100 amps/hour when it is in use (at full power) from the battery (that is quite a bit of current by the way). A typical cheapo Group 27 RV battery has anywhere from 75 to 100 amp hour capacity (won't discuss that the higher the current rate, the lower the lower the available capacity as that is another topic). Given you do not wish to draw the battery below 50% of its capacity as a rule of thumb to extend its lifespan, you have, at best 30 minutes of microwave run time before the battery goes below 50% (probably closer to 20 to 25 minutes based in inverter efficiency not being 100%).
Electricity is best understood by relating it to water:
Current (amps/hour) is the same as water flow as in gallons per hour
Voltage in volts is the same as water pressure
Watts is how much water you used. If you run the faucet at 2 gallons per minute for 5 minutes you would have used 10 gallons. The same goes for current.
Good luck and I see a generator in your future and I highly recommend a Champion inverter generator with remote control/battery start. You don't want to run out in your PJ's in cold and/or rainy weather first thing in morning to start your generator to make your cup of coffee. Solar is expensive and not practical for the occasional boondocker but that didn't prevent me from installing a system myself that would have cost me 6500 if i hired a "pro".
An inverter transforms 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC but unless you have a generator or solar, running microwave via inverted battery power will deplete them in no time.
A generator or another source of power, e.g. solar power large battery banks is a must for extended boondocking.
Not sure of the link taks about power and how that relates to battery capacity if you are using an inverter. Here is what helps me.
Watts: How much energy a device uses regardless of voltage. Watts is equal to voltage multiplied by current in amps. So, if I have a 12 volt light that uses 1 amp, I am using 12 watts per an hour. A 1200 watt microwave that runs on 120 volts AC uses 10 amps of current at that voltage. Here is where it gets interesting. A typical rule of thumb assuming 100% inverter efficiency (not true as most are about 85-90% efficient) is if you wish to run a 120 volt AC item off of invertered battery power, you need to multiply the 120 volt AC current draw by 10 to estimate current draw at 12 volts DC. For example, my microwave draws 10 amps of current at 120 volts AC. When running my microwave via the inverter, it draws 100 amps/hour when it is in use (at full power) from the battery (that is quite a bit of current by the way). A typical cheapo Group 27 RV battery has anywhere from 75 to 100 amp hour capacity (won't discuss that the higher the current rate, the lower the lower the available capacity as that is another topic). Given you do not wish to draw the battery below 50% of its capacity as a rule of thumb to extend its lifespan, you have, at best 30 minutes of microwave run time before the battery goes below 50% (probably closer to 20 to 25 minutes based in inverter efficiency not being 100%).
Electricity is best understood by relating it to water:
Current (amps/hour) is the same as water flow as in gallons per hour
Voltage in volts is the same as water pressure
Watts is how much water you used. If you run the faucet at 2 gallons per minute for 5 minutes you would have used 10 gallons. The same goes for current.
Good luck and I see a generator in your future and I highly recommend a Champion inverter generator with remote control/battery start. You don't want to run out in your PJ's in cold and/or rainy weather first thing in morning to start your generator to make your cup of coffee. Solar is expensive and not practical for the occasional boondocker but that didn't prevent me from installing a system myself that would have cost me 6500 if i hired a "pro".
grashley
Well-known member
WM: Well stated!
Koodog
Well-known member
A genny is good for many things, especially boondocking.
Life is just easier and better having power available.
A 2000 watt should be fine( if you don't need AC). I'm guessing your microwave is 1100 watt or so.
If you wish to run the air conditioner, you will need a 3500 watt, which has already been mentioned.
Lets just say I wouldn't go without one. I have 3.
Power sometimes goes out at my home too.
Life is just easier and better having power available.
A 2000 watt should be fine( if you don't need AC). I'm guessing your microwave is 1100 watt or so.
If you wish to run the air conditioner, you will need a 3500 watt, which has already been mentioned.
Lets just say I wouldn't go without one. I have 3.
Power sometimes goes out at my home too.
Great Horned Owl
Well-known member
wmtired said:
Water is a less than perfect analogy, and your explanation also has errors which may confuse some people.
First, current is amps, not amps/hour. The amp is not analogous to the gallon. The coulomb is the unit of charge (amount of electricity), and is analogous to the gallon. The amp is a measure of flow (1 amp = 1 coulomb per second) and is analogous to gallons per second. Amps/hour is essentially meaningless.
The watt is a measure of power. Watts = volts x amps. There really isn't a useful analogy with water. If there were, it would be psi x gallons per second. I guess that would also be a measure of power, but I've never seen it used.
Joel
As you can tell, serious boondocking require a bit of thought and planning.
Most anybody can work out a couple of days on non-electric camping, but extended boondocking is a different story.
Hot water, microwaves and AC are taken for granted, until you are off grid.
Good luck
Most anybody can work out a couple of days on non-electric camping, but extended boondocking is a different story.
Hot water, microwaves and AC are taken for granted, until you are off grid.
Good luck
UTTransplant
Well-known member
We boondocked in trailers for many years. You have gotten good advice from others about electricity use in general. Yes, you will need a generator for anything more than a night or two. One thing I would recommend is trying to physically pick up any generator you are interested in, some are way too heavy for a single person, even a strong one. Our Honda 2000 watt generator is quiet and only weighs 45-50 pounds. My neighbor had a contractor generator of some type that was over 100 pounds. Took two people to move it from the truck to the ground. It was also miserably noisy. A lot of the enjoyment of boondocking disappears if a 70dB roar has to be tolerated for hours a day, and a generator will probably have to run 2+ hours a day.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
The analogy of electricity to water may be imperfect, but all analogies are and it's useful to help amateurs to understand it.
With respect to battery "damage", the deeper the discharge and the more frequently they are discharged, the shorter the useful life of the battery. As a rule of thumb, avoid discharging a lead-acid battery more than about 50% of its capacity. The 50% level equates to about 12.0v (a fully charged lead-acid battery produces 12.6v).
With respect to battery "damage", the deeper the discharge and the more frequently they are discharged, the shorter the useful life of the battery. As a rule of thumb, avoid discharging a lead-acid battery more than about 50% of its capacity. The 50% level equates to about 12.0v (a fully charged lead-acid battery produces 12.6v).
garyb1st
Well-known member
We had a 30 ft trailer when we first started traveling. Whenever we were without electric hookups, we'd get at least 5 days on battery power alone. But the batteries would not run the microwave or TV. The trailer had two 6 volt deep cycle batteries. After the first year, we purchased a Honda 2000i generator. That ran everything but the Air Conditioning. Just not all at once. We still have the generator and use it while boon docking. It's quiet and while our motorhome has a generator, the Honda is less expensive to use and much quieter. When we purchased the generator it was about $1100. Today similar generators can be purchased for half that and less. They're probably around 50 lbs. If I were buying one today, I'd probably just go with a 1000 watt generator since the wife doesn't like running the microwave on the Honda 2000. The 1000 would probably be less expensive to use and weigh less than the larger unit. It would allow you to charge your batteries and extend your boondocking time. Of course, your water and waste tanks will dictate how much time you can be off grid.
UTTransplant said:
This is HUGE advice. I purchased two Honda's to run in parallel for that exact reason. Is she has a residential refrigerator, a battery will drain fairly quickly.
I can generally run one Honda, with a extended run time tank on Eco mode for a very long time. And Eco mode is very quiet.
