German/US couple buying an RV for 6 month road trip in the US

[alku1]

Hey folks,

We are a German / US couple based in Munich, Germany. As part of a 2 year sabbatical we are planning to embark on a approx. 6months RV trip in the US. We are a family of 4 with 2 kids (2, 5). We are used to carcamping up until baby No. 2 arrived. Last year we enjoyed a 4 week trip in a converted sprinter and it was great.
My wife has family in Raleigh, NC. Since renting seems way too expensive we are aiming at buying a used RV (TT/5th & SUV/truck). The goal is to be able to travel between March - September 2022, whereas we dont have exact starting/finish dates and would make that a bit depending on when we are able to find/sell our RV, so starting and finish dates are flexibel +- 2months. We were thinking to spend February / March with family in North Carolina (Raleigh & Wilmington) while we are looking for an RV & SUV/truck to buy. Potentially also considering to make minor improvements and fix up the RV during our trip.

We did some research on what type of vehicle we would like to travel and narrowed it down to a 5th wheel or TT. Learned about how to find the right tow vehicle for the respective trailer and started looking for trailers/trucks.
Prices are very high right now but we are also open to strike a deal remotely, in case the potential RV comes with a storage place and is close to Raleigh NC, where family members could help out locally (check the vehicle and help with paper work).

There dont seem to be a lot of people out there (and here in the forums) doing this kind of thing and I just wanted to check whether we are missing something we need to consider. So please challenge our plans, specifically the following things:
- TravelTrailer / 5th Wheel buy&sell: We are aware that prices are crazy but I feel that it doenst matter that much for us, as long as prices are not falling abruptly. Since we are going to sell the RV in late 2022 again.
- SUV / Truck: Depending if we go with a 5th wheel or not we might need a 3/4 truck where prices went insane as well. Therefore, a TT would be nicer because we wouldnt need a such a huge tow vehicle or simply have additional storage since the truck bed can be used.
- Insurance / registration: This is the biggest ? in the equation since we dont know how the insurance will treat me, a non resident as driver. I believe it would be best if the insurance & title would be on my Wife (US cit. with a mailing address in NC) correct? What are some ideas to limit the insurance costs (besides skimping on the insurance coverage as such, which I dont want)? I read here in the forum that some people set of an LLC to register the vehicle. I understand that this might only make sense if you buy a new RV where sales tax plays a role, correct?
Also I believe that its difficult to sell a vehicle out of state. So we are probably looking at also sell the RV & vehicle in North Carolina.

Thanks in advance for any input, highly appreciated
cheers
Alex

 

[TonyL]

Hi and welcome to the forum. We are UK residents with no family in the US. When we retired end of 2018, we wanted to tour the US & Canada as much as our health will let us. Thanks to the tremendous help from people on this forum, that is what we are doing.
I won't go into a long post here, but as far as I know, all sales new or second hand attract sales tax (I know our truck did)
As non-residents, we set up an LLC and with our fifth wheel and pick up purchases saved around $6000 in sales tax. As to what happens about selling out of state, I cannot help you, but the LLC company we used are well versed in Europeans requirements so they would be well suited to advising you. Be prepared to pay big on insurance unless you can do it in your wife's name, but I don't know how they will load you unless she is prepared to do all the driving, and beware on what state you take it out in. We bought our set up in Texas and a local insurance agent quoted over $4000 for six months on the truck and 12 months on the trailer. By buying the exact same cover through an agent in Montana (LLC registered state) it reduced the cost to around $2400.
Take a look on rvtrader.com and autotrader.com for likely prices. We bought our fifth wheel without any deposit from a dealer in Texas from their website, and they said that they would be interested in buy back when we finish (admittedly not yet tested!)
Please feel free to ask whatever you want, no such thing as a stupid question. You can also start a conversation direct, if you have specific questions and ask about contacting us through whatsapp if you use it.
TonyL

 

[donn]

Several years ago we met a couple doing a 1 year around America. They had bought their truck and trailer in North Dakota as there was no tax. They bought site unseen from a reputable dealer and had made arrangements to sell it back to him at the end of their journey. Outside of the Covid joke this is a great idea. You say you have relatives in N Carolina? Can you have them buy it for you, with your money of course. And license them in their name? Then on paper you could rent it from them. Upon departure they could sell it. This to me seems pretty reasonable as it would be all ready for you when you land, and would be little hassles when you return home.

 

[TonyL]

What Donn says does make sense to me.

 

[Isaac-1]

What I am seeing locally may imply that the used RV market is slowing down some, in the last couple of weeks as cooler weather has started arriving I have seen a few travel trailers, and I think a 5th wheel show up for sale in yards and parking lots along my circa 15 mile daily commute, these are in front of houses, small businesses, and even a couple on a used car lot that does not normally sell RV's. Most importantly they are not selling instantly with at least one being for sale for 2 weeks now. I wish I could say the same about potential tow vehicle, but at least around here people are getting desperate to find cheaper pickup trucks, as old ones die of attrition from accidents, etc. I have a 21 year old F250 truck that I keep around to occasionally haul stuff on the weekends, etc., which spends most of its time sitting to the side of the driveway at my house. Three times in the last month or so, people have either caught me outside, or knocked on my door to ask if I want to sell the truck.

If you find it too difficult to find a good truck at the moment, an alternative might be to find a motorhome, and tow a small car behind it. With a motorhome, and a towed car you of course would be doubling up on insurance expense, but would have the advantage of a smaller more fuel efficient vehicle explore in. In the RV community these cars are referred to as TOADS (Towed All Down), or Dinghy cars. There are online guides which can help you find models that can be flat towed. I just bought a cheap TOAD car in August, so we would have an alternative to towing my wife's Jeep Cherokee. It is a 2007 Toyota Yaris with manual transmission and 215,000 miles, overall it is in good shape, 1 owner, well maintained, already setup for flat towing with a few cosmetic dings, I paid $2,400, asking was $3,000, then I spent another $200 or so fixing some of its mostly cosmetic issues, replacing the cracked tail lights, removing the failing window tint, etc. I tell you this to let you know what is potentially out there at what price, though it takes a bit of shopping, deals like this are out there. I spent right at 2 months shopping on facebook market, craigslist, etc. looking at used car ads withing about a 2-3 hour driving radius of my house, looking for cars already set up for flat towing with base plate, etc. in that time I found 3 or 4 potentials priced under $5,500 or so.

 

[jackiemac]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

we are in Scotland and we do 6 months tours with our B2 visitors visa.

We insure our Truck and Trailer with National General via Goodsam for a Nevada po box address. When I asked what the difference would be if we had US driving licences the guy said $40... so I'm not sure that will make much of a difference. I'm not sure there's any reduction for no accidents as our policy hasn't changed much price wise. We paid $1545 for 6 months back in May which includes a slight reduction because they are in storage.

Nevada is a tourist state and registration was straightforward but not cheap. If you can, book an appointment online with the relevant DMV should you need to go in, as it cuts your wait time significantly.

The LLC seems a good process if you're not a US citizen.

 

[Isaac-1]

I just about choked when I saw that amount, we pay $61 per month for insurance for our admittedly older class A coach in Louisiana, and about $80 per month for our cheap TOAD car (2007 Toyota Yaris), newer cars are in the $100-$110 per month range for full coverage.

We also have 2 diesel pickup trucks (3/4 ton and 1 ton dually) covered under a commercial policy on the family ranch (newer one is a 2013 model), full coverage and higher liability limits for $4,200 per year combined, which is MUCH higher than the same vehicles would be with private policies, but we have to have that way so employees can drive them and be covered.

 

[ziplock]

I just about choked when I saw that amount, we pay $61 per month for insurance for our admittedly older class A coach in Louisiana, and about $80 per month for your cheap TOAD car,

which would equal $1692.00 a year for your motorhome and toad.

 

[Isaac-1]

True, but that is 12 months worth of use on 2 vehicles

 

[jackiemac]

And ours is that for 6 months but we need obviously have to pay it twice....

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Too many apples vs oranges there to make any meaningful conclusions. We were paying about $1200/yr for our nice diesel pusher and another $1500/yr for two cars (one old model, one new), but even within the state of Florida those rates would vary as much as 1.5x or 2x depending on location and individual. Tags for all 3 vehicles totaled about $100/yr.

That said, foreign visitors don't get any insurance or tag breaks anywhere. Pretty much a worst-case scenario, with none of the things that insurer algorithms love to factor in. No US driving track record, no fixed residence, no US credit reference, etc. I'd venture jackie is paying 1.5x-2x what a typical US resident might pay for similar coverages.

 

[Kirk]

I have a friend from UK and another from AU who owned RVs in this country but they kept them for several years traveling back and forth between countries to use them. I was going to offer some thoughts, but since alku1 has not been back since a few hours after the first post, it looks to be a waste of time.

 

[jackiemac]

I have a friend from UK and another from AU who owned RVs in this country but they kept them for several years traveling back and forth between countries to use them. I was going to offer some thoughts, but since alku1 has not been back since a few hours after the first post, it looks to be a waste of time.

When I first started to use this forum it took me a few weeks to come back and answer some of the stuff I had posted. Not everyone will be on as regularly as others, particularly if their plans are a while off.

 

[NMDriver]

You might want to look into shipping a vehicle from GE to US and back. RollOn/RollOff (RORO) rates are not to bad and you can generally book passage on the ship. Size matters but if it is a temporary import the duty/customs cost should be small. "Non-residents or visitors can temporarily import a car from Europe for up to one year. This import has to correspond with the car owner’s arrival into the country to be valid. Cars imported this way do not have to conform to US standards, but sale is prohibited. A major restriction is the car must leave the country before the year expires. In many cases this type of import is used for events, tours, or races as they don’t need to be in the country for long."

 

[alku1]

Hi all,

Wow thanks for all the replies! Quite an overwhelming amount of information
@Kirk: I would indeed be interested in your story ;-)

Indeed, it seems that the easiest option is to have family in NC purchase trailer & truck for us. However, this leaves us with the challenge that then we would be required to use their insurance. In principle no problem. But I don’t want to jack up someone’s insurance rates because we caused an accident with our trailer setup :-(

We looked at if there is a way to put title and registration directly in my wife’s name in NC. But they require to have a NC drivers license for this which my wife doesn’t have. I guess we could travel to the states early and have my wife get a NC license, but this would be a whole other ordeal consuming quite some time and money.

@Jackie & don: What was your reason you chose to go through an LLC? Mainly to save sales tax? Did you require to show up there in person or have a state issued drivers license?!
We are wondering if there is a way to do all this remotely but it seems at least very challenging in NC.
How much time and money did it take you to set up the LCC and required mailbox?
I’m also wondering if being an out of state resident with only a mailbox is considered okay for the insurance or if this is some kind of grey area which might haunt you once there is an accident?!

 

[TonyL]

Hopefully Jackie won't mind if I answer your questions about the LLC, as it was me that went that route.
Yes, the reason to go via an LLC was to legally avoid sales tax as a non US resident.
No, we did not need to be there in person, we formed the LLC whilst still in the UK, and we don't have a US driving license, it isn't required.
Once the LLC is formed, you tell whoever you are buying from that is the way you wish to purchase. In our case, the Ford dealer didn't want to sell via an LLC until we went to leave, that rapidly changed their mind and it all went smoothly. The dealer for the fifth wheel was perfectly fine with the transaction.
You first set up the LLC, cost around $300, I think the total for the truck and Fifth wheel was another $900, so you need to be saving over 1200 to warrant setting up an LLC. There is an annual fee of $49 to the agent and an annual fee for them to file the LLC account, about $70. Included in these costs are all mail to do with registration and insurance documents.
We also used the same company for a mail address, costs $99 per year. They will open, scan and email any mail they receive on your behalf. The mail address will let you arrange insurance and an American bank account as well.
The company we use are extremely well versed in this process, even suggested where to arrange insurance, which was completed over the phone and by emailing documents. In three years we have never had any issues.
If you want to talk directly with us to discuss anything, go to my name on the reply, tap it and tap start conversation, I will give you my email and if you use WhatsApp, we could then talk directly.
Tony.

 

[Kirk]

Tony

Just wondering if you used a Montana LLC, as several US citizens that I know have done?

aulk1, I'm not entirely sure how much the two friends experience will help you but it wouldn't take a lot of time to read the two experiences as both of them bought RV's and kept them in US for several years, returning annually to make use of them. The Australian Perspective is now about 10 years old since the last update, but I think that some of Bruce's advice is probably still valid. If you wish the one from UK is also available on that site, but it is the older of the two.

One of the things that I have wondered is how recent an RV you plan to buy. The reason is that the older an RV is the greater the risk of problems with it. You could somewhat mitigate that issue by purchasing what is commonly called an extended warranty. If you are thinking of buying one, I invite you to read this article about them before you do so.

I'm afraid that I don't have much knowledge to share on the issue of ownership of the RV and insuring it. On the surface I tend to think that having your wife get a driver's license in NC so that she could title it. It might be worthwhile to consult an attorney in NC for help in that decision, but that is costly too.

​

 

[TonyL]

Yes Kirk, it was a Montana located company. There are no sales taxes or county taxes (I think that's what they're called) where they are located.

 

[Kirk]

it was a Montana located company.

I kind of figured that as is pretty popular, or has been to avoid sales taxes by fulltimers and may work for them too, but would probably make things take even more of their time. Montana is not the only state that allows nonresidents to form an LLC but may be the only one that doesn't have sales tax.

 

[Tom]

Having the benefit of Tony & Jackie's relatively recent experiences is very useful.

FWIW when we first arrived in California, we were still UK residents and were here on B1/B2 visitor visas (business/tourist). At that time, insurance companies required proof of 12 months of driving in the US; We used State Farm and paid 2X the premium on our car. When our 12-month anniversary rolled around, State Farm automatically cut our premium in half.