Going through A nightmare with our new Keystone Cougar 5th wheel

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Hi .
We bought a New Keystone Cougar 326 5th wheel 30 days ago, and it's been in the shop most that time.

The heat doesn't blow adequately, the microwave doesn't work, the front jacks collapsed, cabinets and drawers open in transit, water pump runs continuously and doesn't pump water.

Keystone eventually offered a generous helping of talk. Nothing else, just words. Lot's and lot's of words.
Suggested dealer fixes were all rejected by Keystone.

Our dealer tried to talk us into accepting some of the problems, they too are a scary bunch of hustlers, but when we balked and talked lemon law, they backed up a bit after getting angry.

So it's becoming a very ugly situation.

Thank god for consumer protection laws.
We got in contact with a Lemon Law lawyer, and all our concerns are covered.
Our lawyer is contacting Keystone and our dealer who has threatened us.
She told us that typically it will cost keystone about $125.000 beyond the cost of the RV when it's settled.

Yep, Keystone is that heartless and stubborn.

We've contacted other Keystone victims that sued under the lemon law and won, and they told us the process will take about 9 months.
Keystone will attempt to bribe us out of the lawsuit.

What should have been a terrific experience for us, has become an ugly nightmare.

My only take on this is beware. Keystone does not stand behind their warranty at all, they offer no dealer support, nor customer assistance what-so-ever.

 

[papahog]

Really sorry about your problems/nightmare.  I would have just hated it had that happened with my trailer.

I bought a new 2008 and was/am very happy with it.  However my warrantee problems were handled by Keystone.  My slid was jerking in and out real bad and banging, hanging up and would break loose with a loud bang.  Took it to the selling dealer and they contacted Keystone and ordered parts and made the fix.  It worked fine.  I left on trip back east from the west coast the next day.

I was in NC about 2 months camping, RV parks, my sisters house etc.  The same thing started again.  I took it to Camping World and after diagnosing the problem called Keystone and got the OK the next day.  Ordered parts and they were flew to NC and repairs were fixed in a week while I was parked and hooked up at there service department full hookups for people like me,  No Charge  That was early last year,  Have not had a problem since that day. (Knock on wood).  Also the toilet broke when I got back and they put a new one in again no charge.

Sorry about your experiences, mine were much different.

 

[ramcneal]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. My wife and I bought a Keystone Challenger this year and while we did have a few problems that caused me some grief our dealer took care of everything. It's not right, but I can understand why RV companies are trying to sweep problems under the rug. They are barely making enough money to keep their doors open. The fix of course is to do the job right from the get go.

My troubles were with the plumbing. The hot water didn't work. I took it back to the dealer, they said their guy found no problem and charged me a $90 service fee. I took the trailer home, hooked it up and there still was no hot water if you ran the facet for more than 10 seconds. Took the trailer back to the dealer, dragged him over to the unit and turned on the water for longer than 10 seconds. He got very embarrassed, cleared the charge on my credit card and pulled one of his techs off of a job to fix my unit on the spot. Turns out the hot water plumbing was completely screwed up. The fix was pretty quick since moving the plastic pipe around is pretty easy.

 

[ebolastar]

WOW! 

After reading these replies it kinda' makes me wonder if anybody at Keystone cares about their product or their company.  I'm in the market for a new or 2007 or '08 bunkhouse camper.  You can bet that I will pay extra attention to every system and not gloss over the "show me how it works" ...assuming that every thing is working because is comes from a dealer. Very disappointed to hear this about Keystone. 

 

[FrontrangeRVer]

Is there Lemon Laws in effect for RV's in some states?  I have heard that Good Sam was working on a law providing protection for RV's, but I haven't heard anything new.

 

[Trailer Park Casanova]

The lemon Law here in Calif covers it all.
Our dealer after seeing what we're being put through, removed all of the Keystone products from his lot.
He's dropping the line.

It was the owner of the dealer that finally stepped in and asked for the Lemon Law lawyer to write to Keystone to explain where we're heading with this.
He sells Monaco Coaches, and Monaco found out the expensive hard way too we're now told.

So the tension with the dealer has cooled, and that's a good step, our lawyer advises us we'll beat Keystone and people we've met on line who beat Keystone in court are encouraging us too.

We just made the first payment, and in the shop it still sits.

What happens is Keystone figures if you've invested your money in options like tinted glass, an enclosed, self tracking satellite dish, extra air conditioning, big screen TV's you will be MORE likely to fix the problems at your own expense. So they simply shut you out of your warranty.

We plan on taking the hit, we'll remove all the options and eBay them, and Keystone will buy the unit back, and pay all the legal expenses, our interest, registration etc.

We're taking Keystone to the mat until they tap out.

I'll never buy an RV again. Ever.

We're hanging on like those dogs you encounter that bit your pant leg and don't let go if if you're walking.

Thanks for your takes.

Hope this thread keeps others from encountering the same nightmare Keystone is putting us through.

 

[Mike and Kathie]

Sorry about your problems. We bought a 2010 Keystone Springdale travel trailer. We have taken it back a couple of times with minor problems, but the service has been great. We did have some cracks appear around the tv antenna on the roof, but it was fixed with no problems. We were also warned not to put too much weight on the stabilizer bars, as they are not meant to hold the weight of the camper,  they are just to stabilize the camper. Maybe it's different with a 5th wheel. Good luck.

 

[BruceinFL]

No one has sent a reply that they had a Keystone without any problems. Does that tell you something about the company?

 

[Just Lou]

Makes you wonder how keystone finds time to build any TTs with so much time and resource dedicated to screwing their customers. ??? :

 

[hljantz]

Just for the record, we bought a new Keystone Cougar 5th wheel in 2004.  We haul it to a warmer climate each winter spend three and a half months in it.  I have never had any reason to take it back to the dealer.

 

[ramcneal]

We were also warned not to put too much weight on the stabilizer bars, as they are not meant to hold the weight of the camper,  they are just to stabilize the camper. Maybe it's different with a 5th wheel. Good luck.

That's true of all TT's and not a problem.

 

[Mike and Kathie]

Just for the record, we bought a new Keystone Cougar 5th wheel in 2004.  We haul it to a warmer climate each winter spend three and a half months in it.  I have never had any reason to take it back to the dealer.

I should have stated in my previous post that our minor problems were due to rookie mistakes. We had a leak under the sink due to too much water pressure, because I bought a cheap pressure reducer. We thought the slide out wasn't closing properly, but it was. The crack on the roof around the tv antenna was probably because the tt was at a RV show before we bought it and someone probably over tightened it while playing with it. The dealer got permission from Keystone to fix the crack. Long story short, we like our Keystone and are not sorry we bought it.

 

[Kevin]

trailer park, I understand that this has left a very bad taste in your mouth, but I hope that someday you can try agian, I have had more than the usual share of problems with our Winnie, and some still are not fixed, But the people you met the family time we've had with it, I hate to say it, but I would buy another one if this one ever goes, probably not a winnie, but I would buy another one. good luck with everything. kevin

 

[ramcneal]

Long story short, we like our Keystone and are not sorry we bought it.

+1 We had some initial trouble which I wasn't happy with. I mean when you pay 30 large for a trailer that's brand new you kind of expect things to work. Now that our plumbing issues have been fixed we've enjoyed the heck out of the trailer. I would look at Keystone again. The difference this time would be that I would require that the dealer provide me with a spot on his lot that has full hookups and allow me to stay there for a few hours. That way I could fill the tanks, turn everything on and off and basically inspect the unit myself before taking possession.

 

[janpaul]

Wow, I guess mabe we were lucky, we have had our Keystone Raptor now going into the 4th camping season and other than a couple of loose screws here and there we have had no issues with it. Sorry to hear your story, but you will definitely miss out on a lot of great experiences and memories if you never again buy one, but it is hard to say I blame you after all that.

 

[bigtexan99]

Sounds Crazy!  Can you break down your problems in more detail?


"The heat doesn't blow adequately."  - do you think its a weak fan or design of the vent system?

"the microwave doesn't work". - that seems pretty simple, why did'nt they just replace it?

" the front jacks collapsed". -  Please explain what happened.

" cabinets and drawers open in transit".  - does it not have built in safety catches?

" water pump runs continuously and doesn't pump water." -  ??

 

[blueblood]

Is there Lemon Laws in effect for RV's in some states?  I have heard that Good Sam was working on a law providing protection for RV's, but I haven't heard anything new.

The lemon law you referred to was developed by the State Lemon Law Administrators organization with heavy input from Tom Gonser representing Good Sam as well as FMCA and others. This is an important step but just the first one. This is a model law which each state will have to consider whether to adopt. There is no mechanism to force unilateral adoption of this law on a national basis.

 

[Throrope]

We have a 02 Fleetwood Prowler Lynx with a structurally failed floor.  While our difficulty does not compare to your nightmare, I applaud your tenacity.  In our case hotels would have would have cost less than the repairs we face.  The efforts you are making will bring back the pleasure to RVing through returning the consequences of irresponsible workmanship to the manufacturers.  I'm glad Fleetwood is gone and thank you for your pursuit.

 

[cougar3514v]

Sounds Crazy!  Can you break down your problems in more detail?
<snip>
" the front jacks collapsed". -  Please explain what happened.
<snip>

Yes, I'm interested in the details too since I own a 2006 Cougar 5'er.

I needed to take my Cougar back for a number of minor warranty repairs, and all but one were taken care of.  The one that wasn't was definitely Keystone trying to get out of paying for a repair.  When we got the camper new, I bought two tandem axle wheel chocks, the kind that go between the two wheels and spread to brace against the tires.  When I adjusted them for my axles, I noticed that there was a difference in the gaps between the tires of about an inch and a half.  My dealer (who has been fantastic) submitted the information to Keystone who told them the difference was, "within tolerances."  A couple of years later, my dealer noticed some very bad tire wear patterns and contacted Keystone again.  Keystone's reply was, "Well the axle must have gotten bent during shipment.  It's not our problem."

I'm unhappy about the axles, but for the most part we love our camper.

-Dave

 

[Mastermtn]

Know exactly how you feel!

Pictures are posted near the bottom of this blog link; click on them as tghey are high res and will pop
up into high res mode.

UPDATE:  Since this blog Cruiser RV has fixed and paid for EVERY problem we had..and the dealer
offered to pay us back 100% of our money for the lemon...However since it was repaired it is now
a very solid TT and we are  finishing our 3rd month full time now without a problem. All-in-all this year
we have full times it since May (in a tent!! till we purchased the TT and Tundra in August.

http://shadowrvbycruiserrvdrv.blogspot.com/

We purchased from our hard earned savings of 2-3 years a new 2010 model 185FBR shadow cruiser rv
by cruiser rv in Indiana on Aug 8 2009 as I am a disabled Vietnam vet and this seemed
like a good idea to get around in before my wounds caught up with me as we get older!

We poured over every manual in detail for correct operation as this was our first RV of this
size. (small)

There address is, BTW = 7805 North SR 9 ? P.O. Box 130 Howe, Indiana 46746 866.277.5630

On Aug 14 the water tank fell out after we properly filled it and almost killed us if we had not stopped to eat.

On Aug 15 the hitch bolts worked there way loose!! Again we were lucky not to have a\major accident on the highway,

Too much luck we are using up from a supposedly reliable and honorable company.

The entire construction methodology was extremely shoddy! Workmanship was clearly shoddy to non-existant with indiference rampent throughout this unit.

On Aug 18 the heater stopped working. 2 weeks later we learned if you gently tapped it the heater would come on but would not work like a normal furnace and cycle to keep a constant temperature in the RV.

Next the water pump became intermittent

Few days later we smelled propane as the hose came loose from the feed line. Then we noticed the propane feed pipe was installed at a very skewed angle putting pressure on all the connections.

Not to be outdone, the litenany continued with the awning motor breaking the first time we used it, again according to the user manual letting it out slowly and without over-reaching with the motor.
We asked the manufacturer to simply exchange the unit for us...They have refused.
Although all the items are under warranty there are way too many problems to even consider keeping this RV.

These people at Cruiser RV, namely Tom Peck, refused to acknowledge any of my requests or even answer half of my phone calls nor any of my emails requesting they do the honorable thing and exchange units.

They expect a 3/16 angle iron to hold over 30 gals of water (about 250 lbs)...ludicrous...eventually the metal gave away and eventually was only a week for us.

It may be a total understatement to say this rv and its brethern are rolling pieces of junk and disasters on the market. Buy one if you dare.