GVWR Question

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clockdrfla

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Jan 15, 2012
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Ocala, Florida
Need clarification on the 80% rule.  My truck has a towing capacity of 15,200 and a payload capacity of 3,458. Does that mean I should only consider 5ers that have a GVWR of 12,160 or less?  Am I misunderstanding the 80% rule?  Thanks
 
Not sure about any 80% rule. 

Make sure your pin weight (and anything that's in the truck and didn't come from the factory: people, pets, gear, lift kits, big tires, etc) doesn't exceed that payload number.  Your pin weight is generally 20-25% of the total loaded weight of the 5er. 

Also, make sure the combined weight of the 5er and your tow vehicle don't exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle. 

Where did you get the 3458 number from?  Sounds like a one ton truck.

I tow a 14,000 loaded 5er with a 1-ton Chevy, 2017.  My payload number is something around 3700 lbs. 
 
The "80% rule" is just a SWAG shortcut to help keep you within reasonable bounds. Plus the "80%" is more like "90%" for cases where the terrain is modest and the tow vehicle reasonably strong.  If you get all the real numbers and do the cargo and towing weight arithmetic, you can ignore both of those rules-of-thumb because you are computing actual loads..

So, the 80% factor can help you in the early phases of RV shopping. Assume that anything that exceeds 80% of the tow rating is going to require a more detailed analysis of the cargo and tow weights before any further consideration. Under 80% is probably going to be ok, but you still should do the arithmetic before putting your money down.
 
clockdrfla said:
Need clarification on the 80% rule.  My truck has a towing capacity of 15,200 and a payload capacity of 3,458. Does that mean I should only consider 5ers that have a GVWR of 12,160 or less?  Am I misunderstanding the 80% rule?  Thanks

In my opinion the vehicle Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is the most accurate weight for total loading. When you load beyond that, you have surely gone beyond what the vehicle manufacturer has listed as it maximum total weight limit. GCWR is not a "set-in-stone" figure. Vehicle options such as gearing from 3.73 to 4.10 will often increase the GCWR by 1000#. GVWR does not change but what the vehicle can tow without exceeding it can. 
 
OK, sorry for being so stupid on these weights.  I am totally confused. 
My truck has a towing capacity of 15,200 and payload capacity of 3458. 
I am looking at a 5th wheel which has a dry weight of 11,461, cargo carrying capacity of 3,539 and a GVWR of 15,000.  Pin weight is 2320 lbs.
No way does the junk I haul come close to 3,539 lbs.  More like 1,500 lbs.  So if I add the dry weight plus the junk I haul of 1,500 lbs it totals to 12,861.  What about the pin weight? 
Anyway, can my truck pull this safely? 
 
As I understand, for folks working from the MAX TOW numbers, the 80% rule is a simple way to reduce the number due to the many factors such as weight of options, passengers and cargo, which must be deducted from max tow numbers and Payload, and real passenger and cargo estimates, no need for the 80% rule.

By definition, GVWR minus actual truck wt (curb wt) = Payload.

Ignore the published pin wt.  Actual pin wt will be closer to 20% of true wt.  Using the FW  GVWR of 15K, the pin wt can be 3000#.

DO NOT PANIC!

My truck has a similar Payload of 3453#.  My FW is GVWR of 15,500.  Actual wt is about 14,000#.  My truck carries a pin wt of 2800#, plus 40# Andersen hitch and 400# of passengers and cargo.  This totals 3240#.

If your true gross wt is 13,000#, then 20% is only 2600# estimated pin.
 
RV folks started the 80 % recommendation years ago when hp and torque numbers were low. Diesel had maybe 180 hp and 460 torque.
  The big block 460/454 Ford and GM gazzers had maybe 230-240 hp and 370-390 torque ....hence the 80 percent recommendation worked better.

The 80 percent thing isn't needed today with the new gen diesels however with trucks like the F250 6.2 small block gazzer and 15k+ lb tow rating the 80 percent thing would be a wise idea.

Not knowing your trucks particulars I wouldn't guess what size trailer it can pull or weight it can carry. Hell some F150's has 3200-3300 lb gvwr based payloads and no way can that much weight be carried as pin/hitch weight in the bed on those small 4800 rawr numbers.

 
clockdrfla said:
OK, sorry for being so stupid on these weights.  I am totally confused. 
My truck has a towing capacity of 15,200 and payload capacity of 3458. 
I am looking at a 5th wheel which has a dry weight of 11,461, cargo carrying capacity of 3,539 and a GVWR of 15,000.  Pin weight is 2320 lbs.
No way does the junk I haul come close to 3,539 lbs.  More like 1,500 lbs.  So if I add the dry weight plus the junk I haul of 1,500 lbs it totals to 12,861.  What about the pin weight? 
Anyway, can my truck pull this safely?

Just to always error on the side of caution, forget dry numbers.  They are totally meaningless.  Instead use the trailers GVWR and 20-25% of that as pin weight.  While you may think you wont load the full amount y
our only fooling yourself if you think otherwise.  A 15,200 pound GVWR fiver can espect 3200-3500 pound pin weight.  That puts you eightmon the ragged edge of needing a dually.
 
The thing to know about 5W weights is that the real-life pin weight will be 20-25% of the actual loaded trailer weight.  If your trailer comes out to that estimated 12,861, then the pin weight is at the very least 20% of that or 2572 lbs.  In many cases it will be closer to 25% than 20%, so best to plan on 3215 lbs.
 
RV folks started the 80 % recommendation years ago when hp and torque numbers were low. Diesel had maybe 180 hp and 460 torque.
  The big block 460/454 Ford and GM gazzers had maybe 230-240 hp and 370-390 torque ....hence the 80 percent recommendation worked better.
It's true engines were weaker back in the day, but the tow ratings were lower as well, so there is still a proportion of some sort. Further, more than just engine torque & hp goes into a tow rating. That said, the rule of thumb percentage is indeed somewhat obsolete, for reasons I will explain below.

The percentage originated as a shortcut that recognizes that the tow rating is based on a tow vehicle that is empty except for a 154 lb driver and full fuel.  Hardly anybody tows that way, and any extra passengers and gear (including the hitch) decreases the tow capacity by the same amount. If the tow vehicle had a 8,000 lb tow rating but there was an extra 500 lbs in it, the 8,000 is reduced to 7,500. That's about 6% reduction. We used 10% as an easy-to-use percentage and then doubled that to 20% IF towing in the mountains, because engine horsepower decreases with altitude even though the horsepower demand for towing increases. So 90% worked on the flatlands and 80% was better in the mountains.

Another point: The 80% & 90% factors were developed when there were mostly travel trailers and hitch weights were not such as huge factor as they are with a 5W trailer. The 80% rule never had much value for 5W towing because it ignores pin weights and payload, and the truck ofteny ran out of payload before reaching even 80% of max tow rating.

Two things have changed the percentage parameter.  First, the SAE 2807 towing standard has been adopted and that requires that the tow rating allow for two persons and the hitch as well as fuel.  That puts the tow rating much closer to real life driving and thus reduces the need to compensate somewhat.  Second, the substantial increase in tow ratings due to higher power, improved transmissions and better suspensions makes the load in the typical tow vehicle a smaller percentage of the total load. That suggests a smaller percentage would be more accurate, especially in the more powerful tow vehicles. An extra 500 lbs in an F350 with a 20,000 lb tow rating is only 2.5%. The same 500 though, is a whopping 10% if the tow rating is only 5000 lbs (as it would be in a mid-size SUV, for example).

Any rule of thumb must have two attributes to become popular & useful: (1) It must be simple to remember and use, and (2) it must  be applicable across a broad range of scenarios without getting anybody into serious trouble.  Accuracy takes a second seat to both #1 & #2 and the rules typically err on the side of caution.
 
ip076 said:
Not sure about any 80% rule. 

Make sure your pin weight (and anything that's in the truck and didn't come from the factory: people, pets, gear, lift kits, big tires, etc) doesn't exceed that payload number.  Your pin weight is generally 20-25% of the total loaded weight of the 5er. 

Also, make sure the combined weight of the 5er and your tow vehicle don't exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle. 

Where did you get the 3458 number from?  Sounds like a one ton truck.

I tow a 14,000 loaded 5er with a 1-ton Chevy, 2017.  My payload number is something around 3700 lbs.

I hope your chevy is a 1 ton dually cause my 1 ton chevy singke rear whell had a cargo cap of 3800 lbs
 
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