Health Insurance for FT (spouse + 2 kids)

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Radioherd

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Oklahoma
Hi All,

We are starting FT around mid June this year (both will working contractors with LLC's) so our current employer plans will no longer be avalable/useless anyway with their networks.

So far we have explored these two options:

Health Share:

Indemnity Health Insurance Option:

Are there any other options you would recommend outside of these two? We are comfortable self insuring to a point if we could get catastrophic coverage to cover a major incident. Out income will also be too high to get a reasonable ACA plan price and I don't think our state has any PPO options for having a good network anyway through the ACA.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice!
 
We are using a med share plan called Christian Health Care. We are on the best plan ands it's around 450 a month.
Thanks for sharing the above links, I am going to be shopping plans next month.
 
I got an email a week or so ago from FMCA about an insurance plan they sponsor for those under 65. You might check it out on their website. Another place to look would be the Escapees organization. They have a subgroup called Xcapers that is primarily folks working from their RVs. They might have some good resources too.
 
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Are there any other options you would recommend outside of these two?
I wouldn't recommend either of those two. Before buying an indemnity plan, make 1,000% sure you know how it works. And then check again to be sure you really understand it. Indemnity plans aren't inherently bad if you make an informed choice to buy that kind of coverage. But many people are misled and think they're buying a major medical insurance plan only to find out it's actually an indemnity plan.

Indemnity plans are intended to be supplemental coverage. For example, if someone has a major medical plan that pays 75% of charges, the consumer is still on the hook for 25%, which can be substantial. An indemnity plan is a way to limit one's exposure on that 25%. It was never intended to be standalone insurance.

Indemnity plans don't have networks because they don't care how much a service costs because their agreement is to pay YOU a set amount for a given type of service; their payment is independent of what the doctor charges. So say you have a plan that pays $120 for Procedure X. If you see a doctor who charges $150 for Procedure X, you'll pay the $150 to the doctor and get $120 from the indemnity plan. If you see a doctor who charges $700 for Procedure X, you'll pay the $700 to the doctor and get the same $120 from the indemnity plan.

So with an indemnity plan, you can see any doctor you want, but you have to be proactive not to inadvertently see one who's charging $700 for the same procedure another doctor charges $150.

Given this, you can see how people who think they have a "regular" insurance plan can be in for a shock when their doctor bills reveal what their coverage actually is. And many companies and agents sell indemnity plans in a way that makes them look, to the untrained eye, like major medical plans. If a plan is touting freedom from networks, there's a good chance it's an indemnity plan, and you'll have to dig through the verbiage to realize it.

I don't know what FMCA is offering these days, but a couple of years ago they were selling indemnity plans this way. Escapees, too.

As for healthshare ministries, the main thing to understand is that they aren't insurance (they're getting a little better about divulging that, although there are still issues), and there's no obligation whatsoever for them to pay any claim, ever. And since there's no obligation, members don't have any recourse outside of the organization if their claim is denied. If an insurance company denies a claim, you can sue them. Since healthshares don't have any obligations--everything they do is voluntary--there's nothing to sue them for.

And there's no regulation of them, like there is of insurance companies. They'll tout that as a benefit, but regulations generally favor the consumer, not the entity being regulated. For example, insurance companies are required to spend a certain amount of the premiums they receive on actual health care (as opposed to administrative expenses, for example); if they don't meet that requirement, they're required to refund the excess premiums.

Insurance companies are also required to maintain financial reserves to cover claims. Healthshares have no such requirements (because they're unregulated), and there's nothing preventing them from suddenly declaring insolvency. In fact, a couple of years ago one of them was backlogged several months, maybe even pushing a year, in paying claims, and they didn't have to reveal why. Was it because they just didn't have enough people working the claims, or were they intentionally pushing payments down the road because they didn't have the money to pay them yet? Who knows.

And speaking of paying, with both healthshare ministries and indemnity plans, it's possible you'll be required to pay up front for procedures and then file a claim for reimbursement. With traditional major medical insurance, you might owe a copay when you see a doctor who accepts your insurance, but everything else gets sorted out after that between the doctor and your insurance company, without your involvement.

Also, insurance companies used make a big business of denying claims based on pre-existing conditions. ACA plans can't have any restrictions due to pre-existing conditions, but indemnity plans and healthshare ministries can. That "gotcha" can still rear its ugly head for people with non-ACA plans.

Your idea to self-insure to a certain point and have coverage for a catastrophe is sound, but a catastrophe is one time certainty on your coverage is important, and neither of these types of plans provide that. Major medical also doesn't provide 100% certainty, but it comes a whole lot closer than the alternatives.

We are comfortable self insuring to a point if we could get catastrophic coverage to cover a major incident. Out income will also be too high to get a reasonable ACA plan price and I don't think our state has any PPO options for having a good network anyway through the ACA.
A lot of people who choose to fulltime choose a domicile where they can get an ACA plan that provides access to a nationwide network.

Also, it occurred to me that your employers were probably contributing to your company-provided health insurance premiums. To get a realistic view of what healthcare coverage actually cost you, you should factor in what your employer was paying on your behalf, the same as factoring in the employer's share of FICA taxes that independent contractors have to start paying out of their own pocket through self-employment tax.
 
I wouldn't recommend either of those two. Before buying an indemnity plan, make 1,000% sure you know how it works. And then check again to be sure you really understand it. Indemnity plans aren't inherently bad if you make an informed choice to buy that kind of coverage. But many people are misled and think they're buying a major medical insurance plan only to find out it's actually an indemnity plan.

Indemnity plans are intended to be supplemental coverage. For example, if someone has a major medical plan that pays 75% of charges, the consumer is still on the hook for 25%, which can be substantial. An indemnity plan is a way to limit one's exposure on that 25%. It was never intended to be standalone insurance.

Indemnity plans don't have networks because they don't care how much a service costs because their agreement is to pay YOU a set amount for a given type of service; their payment is independent of what the doctor charges. So say you have a plan that pays $120 for Procedure X. If you see a doctor who charges $150 for Procedure X, you'll pay the $150 to the doctor and get $120 from the indemnity plan. If you see a doctor who charges $700 for Procedure X, you'll pay the $700 to the doctor and get the same $120 from the indemnity plan.

So with an indemnity plan, you can see any doctor you want, but you have to be proactive not to inadvertently see one who's charging $700 for the same procedure another doctor charges $150.

Given this, you can see how people who think they have a "regular" insurance plan can be in for a shock when their doctor bills reveal what their coverage actually is. And many companies and agents sell indemnity plans in a way that makes them look, to the untrained eye, like major medical plans. If a plan is touting freedom from networks, there's a good chance it's an indemnity plan, and you'll have to dig through the verbiage to realize it.

I don't know what FMCA is offering these days, but a couple of years ago they were selling indemnity plans this way. Escapees, too.

As for healthshare ministries, the main thing to understand is that they aren't insurance (they're getting a little better about divulging that, although there are still issues), and there's no obligation whatsoever for them to pay any claim, ever. And since there's no obligation, members don't have any recourse outside of the organization if their claim is denied. If an insurance company denies a claim, you can sue them. Since healthshares don't have any obligations--everything they do is voluntary--there's nothing to sue them for.

And there's no regulation of them, like there is of insurance companies. They'll tout that as a benefit, but regulations generally favor the consumer, not the entity being regulated. For example, insurance companies are required to spend a certain amount of the premiums they receive on actual health care (as opposed to administrative expenses, for example); if they don't meet that requirement, they're required to refund the excess premiums.

Insurance companies are also required to maintain financial reserves to cover claims. Healthshares have no such requirements (because they're unregulated), and there's nothing preventing them from suddenly declaring insolvency. In fact, a couple of years ago one of them was backlogged several months, maybe even pushing a year, in paying claims, and they didn't have to reveal why. Was it because they just didn't have enough people working the claims, or were they intentionally pushing payments down the road because they didn't have the money to pay them yet? Who knows.

And speaking of paying, with both healthshare ministries and indemnity plans, it's possible you'll be required to pay up front for procedures and then file a claim for reimbursement. With traditional major medical insurance, you might owe a copay when you see a doctor who accepts your insurance, but everything else gets sorted out after that between the doctor and your insurance company, without your involvement.

Also, insurance companies used make a big business of denying claims based on pre-existing conditions. ACA plans can't have any restrictions due to pre-existing conditions, but indemnity plans and healthshare ministries can. That "gotcha" can still rear its ugly head for people with non-ACA plans.

Your idea to self-insure to a certain point and have coverage for a catastrophe is sound, but a catastrophe is one time certainty on your coverage is important, and neither of these types of plans provide that. Major medical also doesn't provide 100% certainty, but it comes a whole lot closer than the alternatives.


A lot of people who choose to fulltime choose a domicile where they can get an ACA plan that provides access to a nationwide network.

Also, it occurred to me that your employers were probably contributing to your company-provided health insurance premiums. To get a realistic view of what healthcare coverage actually cost you, you should factor in what your employer was paying on your behalf, the same as factoring in the employer's share of FICA taxes that independent contractors have to start paying out of their own pocket through self-employment tax.
Thanks for the feedback and advice.

Yes - i'm aware of the indemnity aspect and what it is - the broker was upfront about that from the start. The way it needs to work is you are selective of the procedures and the providers you chose to make it work - and the plan he quoted me has a dedicated line for that so no matter where we are, we can get the "cheapest" solution. This is how we would be doing it if self insured anyway, but with the indemnity in some cases you will be paid more than you paid out of pocket.

I currently use my employers plan and i manage my parents ACA plan for them. Both these traditional insurance options are awful in the way the bills work - the first bill is almost always wrong, never matched the EOB from the insurance company, and most people just pay them due to confusion. I'm not most people as i work in HR and have managed a benefits plan and have had to become and ACA "expert" with my parents recently.

So ultimately what this broker provided me seems like the best option (given there aren't many nationwide options). I asked him to quote me on catastrophic accident and critical illness too and i got the following back (see attachments). It may work financially better just to save the monthly premiums and self insure with that money (Paying cash price as you go) and then just have the catastrophic coverage on it's own for something major. But the deductible on the catastrophic coverage has a minimum of 25k..... so really i'm trying to find something to cover that initial 25k (the indemnity plan he quoted would do a lot of that alongside it).

I'm definitely more hesitant with the healthshare option as it's not regulated, but it could potentially work better than the indemnity for the basic care and then we add on the catasrophic accident (with 25K deductible) in the event the healthsare won't pay a massive claim.... But both premiums for the healthsare and indemnity are similar so prob easiest with indemnity.

On the domicile and ACA plan option - do you know what states offer that? SD, Florida, TX? My main issue with the ACA option is that yes not only would nwe need to change domicile (not an issue if worth it), but the premiums for an ACA plan are probably going to be massive as we earn too much for any subsidy.

In summary i still have a couple questions :)

1. Does anyone have a better solution that the healthshare option or the indemnity plan attached here to cover catastrophic incidents - other than just self insure and get a catastrophic coverage only?

2. Has anyone had success with ACA in a certain domicile that makes sense with a nationwide plan with a respectable premium?

3. Trivet - you said you wouldn't receommend either of these two - what would you recommend then? Employer coverage is not an option, and I don't think ACA will be either - which is why we have these two options?
 

Attachments

  • Indemnity Quote Basic Coverage + Accident.pdf
    623.8 KB · Views: 2
On the domicile and ACA plan option - do you know what states offer that? SD, Florida, TX? My main issue with the ACA option is that yes not only would nwe need to change domicile (not an issue if worth it), but the premiums for an ACA plan are probably going to be massive as we earn too much for any subsidy.

I've been following statewide ACA plans since 2016, and to my knowledge here are the states that currently offer Blue Cross Blue Shield nationwide heath plans: AL, AL, AR, CA, FL, MN, ND, and WY.

Most of these nationwide plans are PPOs. However, FL has nationwide EPO plans. Just make sure the plan you select actually is nationwide – not just a single state or a "multi-state" plan. I use the "Find a Doctor" feature of a plan.

ACA plans are based on where you reside, not your domicile.

One more time . . .

ACA plans are based on where you reside, not your domicile.

For most folks, these are the same. However, as you know, for full timers on the go, you may not reside much (or not at all) in your domicile.

To cover this situation, ACA has the SEP (Special Enrollment Period) . . . in short, you can enroll in a healthcare plan where you reside for a time. Here's the SEP FAQ from the US Dept. of Health & Human Services.

To explore health plans in various states, I suggest using Health Sherpa as you only need to enter minimal info (ZIP code, age, sex).
 
On the domicile and ACA plan option - do you know what states offer that? SD, Florida, TX? My main issue with the ACA option is that yes not only would nwe need to change domicile (not an issue if worth it), but the premiums for an ACA plan are probably going to be massive as we earn too much for any subsidy.
Of those three, only Florida Blue offers PPO/EPO plans with a nationwide network.

But you say the premiums are "probably" going to be massive. Have you priced them? Are you aware that households whose income is at or above 400% of the federal poverty level can still receive a subsidy if the premium for the benchmark plan (second lowest cost silver plan) is more than 8.5% of their income?

To cover this situation, ACA has the SEP (Special Enrollment Period) . . . in short, you can enroll in a healthcare plan where you reside for a time. Here's the SEP FAQ from the US Dept. of Health & Human Services.
If you're applying during a special enrollment period, you can be asked to provide documentation of your permanent move. Here's a list of the acceptable documents:

www.healthcare.gov/help/prove-move

It would hard if not impossible for a traveling fulltimer to have these documents for temporary stays in a campground, but there's a form you can submit that explain why you don't have them. But even if they accepted your reason for not having the documents, the timing is such that if you're going to be somewhere for even a whole month, if you wait until you're there (which might be required--I'm not sure you can even apply in advance of a move), your insurance won't even start until after you leave there. And if where you're staying has only plans that have local networks, even if you stayed for two months and could have the insurance for a month, you'd be uninsured as soon as you left the area.

Plus, every time you change plans, your deductible and out-of-pocket limit get reset.

Using a SEP to change insurance every time a fulltimer moves, or actually even some of the times a fulltimer moves, is not a good option.
 
Using a SEP to change insurance every time a fulltimer moves, or actually even some of the times a fulltimer moves, is not a good option.
I never said or implied changing insurance EVERY time you move, but OP (and others) might find it a viable option.
 
I never said or implied changing insurance EVERY time you move, but OP (and others) might find it a viable option.

Ok interesting - so if we were to find a PPO/EPO through florida, and we signed up through a SEP and stayed in Florida for 2 months say to complete that process through ACA. We can be elsewhere for the majority of the year and that's not an issue?

Seems like it would be an issue when tax time comes and we report our domicile state as somewhere other than Florida no?

I'm not really understanding how this would work I guess?
 
Of those three, only Florida Blue offers PPO/EPO plans with a nationwide network.

But you say the premiums are "probably" going to be massive. Have you priced them? Are you aware that households whose income is at or above 400% of the federal poverty level can still receive a subsidy if the premium for the benchmark plan (second lowest cost silver plan) is more than 8.5% of their income?

Well no i haven't checked since the subsidy was adjusted in the last year - when i did a year or so ago it was just way too high. I will check, and then if it is friendly we just have to domicile in FL ;) ?
 
Ok interesting - so if we were to find a PPO/EPO through florida, and we signed up through a SEP and stayed in Florida for 2 months say to complete that process through ACA. We can be elsewhere for the majority of the year and that's not an issue?
I believe many RVers do this . . . even to the point of not staying in FL at all – Case in point: How to Move in Florida in 1 Hour.

Seems like it would be an issue when tax time comes and we report our domicile state as somewhere other than Florida no?
I'd suggest you establish your domicile in FL if you want health insurance and the tax break.

But this is an issue better left to a tax advisor/attorney.
 
Have you checked the Fulltime Families web page
I forgot to mention in addition to our CHC we also have a dial care plan that more than pays for itself every year. It's about the same cost for the year as one urgent care visit. We tend to use it 3 to 4 times a year, gotta love spring.
 
I never said or implied changing insurance EVERY time you move
The OP brought up an interesting point--if a person gets health insurance based on where he's temporarily residing as a fulltimer traveler, as you suggest, would you say he can keep it after he leaves and travels elsewhere, at a time when he's not in that area any more and neither is his domicile?

How would that be any more legitimate than a traveling fulltimer getting insurance where his domicile is, which you've had problems with in the past. Or maybe you've come around?

FL ACA does not have PPO health plans, just EPOs as I mentioned previously.
How does this affect how the the Florida Blue plans operate, or their coverage?


Well no i haven't checked since the subsidy was adjusted in the last year - when i did a year or so ago it was just way too high. I will check, and then if it is friendly we just have to domicile in FL ?
The nationwide average of the income at which a family four loses any subsidy is around $200,000/year. Even if the insurance premium were $1500/month (2 adults in their 30s and two children), that would still be less than 10% of a very healthy income. And at incomes lower than around $200,000 for this family, a subsidy would be available, making the premiums lower.

I don't think our state has any PPO options for having a good network anyway through the ACA.
What do you base this on?

I found a couple of Blue Cross PPO plans in Oklahoma--Blue Advantage PPO and Blue Preferred PPO. You have to be careful with PPO plans because they might have only a local network, and no coverage outside that area.

But I did a provider search and found lots of hospitals all over the country that are in-network for both of these Oklahoma plans, including in Denver, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago. What I can't tell is what network it's using--is it Blue Cross Oklahoma's own network, or is it the Blue Card network? If it's the Blue Card network, that's the same one that provides a network for Florida Blue members when they're not in Florida.
 
What do you base this on?

I found a couple of Blue Cross PPO plans in Oklahoma--Blue Advantage PPO and Blue Preferred PPO. You have to be careful with PPO plans because they might have only a local network, and no coverage outside that area.

But I did a provider search and found lots of hospitals all over the country that are in-network for both of these Oklahoma plans, including in Denver, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago. What I can't tell is what network it's using--is it Blue Cross Oklahoma's own network, or is it the Blue Card network? If it's the Blue Card network, that's the same one that provides a network for Florida Blue members when they're not in Florida.

Yeah sorry our home state is about to be MO not OK - I spoke with a broker at RV Insurance Benefits and he told me there's no PPO plans with Missouri - and when I was playing with the ACA website to pick a plan in MO there also weren't any coming up
 
Have you checked the Fulltime Families web page
I forgot to mention in addition to our CHC we also have a dial care plan that more than pays for itself every year. It's about the same cost for the year as one urgent care visit. We tend to use it 3 to 4 times a year, gotta love spring.

CHC?? Dial Care Plan?? What are those? :)

Thanks i'll check out that website. I've spoke to a couple fulltimers who have just said they are self insuring and paying cash price. I am comfortable with that if we can get a catastrophic coverage for a worst case scenario but most of those only exist as an add on to a base coverage plan
 
FL ACA does not have PPO health plans, just EPOs as I mentioned previously.
OK yeah thought you mentioned PPOs - I'm not familiar with how an EPO works and what the network would look like. Thanks for the tips!
 
I don't even understand my own health care, especially since I went with Medicare, but it's working for me.

With that thought in mind, the Medicare Part B and D suppliments are sponsored by different, more nationally known health care providers. Why not check with some of them and see what they have to offer. I know you are not on Medicare (yet), but those insurance companies offer a lot of services.

The two big ones that come to mind are United Health Care. This was my company insurance when I was still employed. There is Blue Cross, who I also had while employed, and even Cigna (who I am with now).

I know there are more big name companies out there. They are worth a phone call. Nothing to loose except some time and everything to gain if you find one with a plan that meets your needs for the right price.
 
CHC is a med share plan and dial care costs about 160 a year, we can call a doctor on the phone and get a diagnosis and basic meds called in, saves the cost of an urgent care for those minor issues. Our dial care is through Carington.
 

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