Hmm...condensation in double pane window? Is dealership being square with us?

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StarsInOurEyes

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Posts
14
Location
Colorado
Happy New Year RVer's one and all!!  While fawning over our prospective new "used" 2002 5er,  we noticed moisture on the inside of the glass on a double paned window, and at the bottom there was about 1" of water - just add goldfish and WALA...an aquarium on wheels!!!! The salesman said that it would be properly taken care of before delivery, we believed him, and besides we were in love so what's a little blemish on the object of our desire??  Yesterday we went to our pre-delivery "walk through" with the RV Tech who explained that their window man came out to have a look at the problem and concluded that it was simply a build up of condensation trapped between the window panes.  Naturally, this led us to ask if they had thoroughly checked for leaks because 1" of water seems like an awful lot of condensation.  The Tech said they found no leaks. 

After reflecting on this explaination, later that day, we began to wonder why condensation would accumulate in only one of two identical windows on the back of the rig?  The dealers solution now also seems dubious to us:  they removed the window as a  unit.  Then, to drain the water they drilled two small pin head sized holes in the bottom of the metal that holds the glass together, (they left the moisture on the inside of the windows to dry naturally).  The Tech told us that once dry, there would be no residual streaks or spots...hmmmmmmmmm....how likely is that?  I'm no window man but I've cleaned a few in my day.

We are hoping for a Fountain of Wisdom, Insight, Personal Experience and an "AHA Moment" on this topic, (before we take delivery on Tuesday),  Thank you Thank you Thank you.

StarsInOurEyes/aka BlindedByTheLight

 
 
Bull on the dealer  It has a cracked seal in the glass weld.  Only solution is a glass new replacement.  Don't leave the dealership until it is done.  The salesman and the tech are both lieing thru their teeth.  It they don't fix it run and cancel your check.
 
Shayne is correct the dealership is flat out lying to you.  I would not accept the rig without a NEW window assembly installed.  Oh and tell them you want to see the delivery slip, unpacking and installation since they have already shown they cannot be trusted or believed.
 
Thanks guys.  Trust and confidence in this dealer are waning rapidly with each new reply we read this evening. 

Question:  We have paid in full for the rig - Friday.  We now have concerns about other "repairs" that were made and wonder...do we have any recourse here?  The check has not cleared.
 
There may be a 'Buyer's remorse' law in your state. It could be 3 days or seven days (business days; Saturdays MAY count, but contract signing day usually doesn't.) so you should check with your state IMMEDIATELY! There may be other laws related to misrepresentation of goods or services which may apply. Personally, I would stop payment on the check first thing this morning, notify the dealer, and not take delivery on it. Explain that you have expert advice on window repairs and will not accept anything but a new or good used window. I would also demand to see any other repairs supposedly done and examine them carefully. You may need to contact an attorney if they balk. Sounds like you payed with a personal check and that's good. If a cashiers' check, obviously you can't stop payment on that.

Good Luck!, and let us know what happens. 
 
Hey THANKS Karl....

Advice well received!  We are going to stop payment on the check today as the dealer is closed on Monday.  We are giving them the benefit of the doubt but not without

We have constructed a check list of items that were not demonstrated to our satisfaction.  And we noted that we spoke with several knowledgeable individuals, over the week-end,  who were in agreement that replacement of the window is the only acceptable "fix". 

As much as we love the lay-out and quality of this RV we are not prepared to spend our winter on the road in RV-HELL!! We are prepared to walk away and look further.  We may lose our deposit but that's the very least that we have to lose.

THANK YOU ALL!!!  We'll keep you up to date with our progress and MAYBE make it to Quartzite before the fun and festivities are just a memory....

David and Katy and the Big Poo

 
David and Katy,

Also check our library (button at the top of the page). You'll find a couple of checklists of things to look at and try before taking delivery. Not all the items will apply, but you can see that there are many, many things that will. It's like buying a house. Don't let them rush you through the walk-thru; take your time and open drawers, doors, try all faucets, flush the toilet, check the stove and furnaces, etc. And don't let them tell you "Well, there's no propane/water/whatever in the tank(s) so they won't work just now..." Tell them to put some in, or get it in writing that they will fix or replace anything that's not working immediately, once you finally get to try it out. If they balk, walk. 
 
Let me elaborate a little on what the others have told you. Two pane sealed windows have the space between the panes of glass filled with argon gas, this is a neutral gas that resists moisture. The window unit is sealed, so the argon cannot excape and air cannot enter. If the seal fails the gas leaks out and moisture laden air enters. This air then condenses on the inside of either the outside or inside pane depending on which one is colder than the air.
The ONLY solution to this problem is to have the whole unit replaced with a new one. I would definitely cancel the sale, if the dealer is lying about this what else are they lying about.

Woody
 
I agree with everyone else.

My father-in-law was a professional window and door man.  He worked for Lowes.  He started in one of the first millworks Lowes had in North Wilkesboro NC.  He moved from there to doing installations, then to troubleshooting installations, then after several more promotions he was the manager over all the troubleshooters, then the manager of a Lowes millwork in Nashville TN. Finally before retiring he was an auditor for Lowes auditing their door and window departments in the stores.

According to him.  You guys are absolutely correct.  there are window companies that claim they can fix the windows and refill them with Argon.  I priced it for a house that I had listed.  it was cheaper to get the window replaced.

so it is in fact a dud window.

David
 
It is Tuesday morning. 

Armed with expert advice, (much thanks to all of you), and a copy of the PDI check list from RV Forum...one for us and one for the dealership!!!  We have put a hold on our check and we are packin' a lunch...going to spend the day under over and inside the RV that we have chosen...I might add that we will be doing this in about 3' of snow!!!  Don't feel sorry for us 'cause...

We're taking you all along for the ride!!  Keeping you close to our hearts as we approach this with all the savvy of a seasoned RV buyer. 

We'll keep you updated and if all goes well, or doesn't...we'll hope to see you in Quatzite....anybody still be there in February?

DAVID...thank you for your post with details of the aragon gas and the benefit of your father-in-laws knowledge...we've copied that and takin' it with!!

Can't say thanks enough to all!!

David, Katy and the Big Pooo
 
One caveat: Not all dual pane glass is filled with argon or other inert gas - some less expensive ones are simply a dead air space. Usually very dry air so you don't get condensation on cold days. But it is still a hermetically sealed chamber between the two panes. Once you have a leak it no longer serves the purpose (insulating) as well as when it is sealed.
 
o.k....all is well.  The owner of the dealership was in the office when we arrived yesterday.  We discussed our concerns about the window and he agreed, (in writing),  to pay for replacement, at our choice of repair shops. 

The remainder of the day we crawled up over and under every inch of the 5er following the check list we downloaded from RVforum.  The furnace motor was noisy and they replaced it.  Everything else checked out just fine. 

We towed 'er home.  Today we are packing and loading in a race against the NEXT major snow storm to hit Colorado on Thursday or Friday.  We hope to be in sunny southern New Mexico sipping lemonade in the hot springs pool by the time that happens!!  Headed for Quartzite shortly thereafter....

Now our next big challenge...when we arrive in sunnier climes we want to clean and polsih the fiberglass...and hopefully renew the luster to the decals in the process.  Any recommendations? 

All righty then...we're off!!!!!!!!!!

With the Wind in our Hair...(grateful as can be to RVForum members and your valuable guidance)....

David, Katy and the Big Pooo





 
If the finish of your fiberglass had started looking dull, smokey, or hazy the best product I have found for a start is a marine grade fiberglass color restorer/wax. It is more work to put on but really does restore a deep finish.
 
David, Kathy and Big Poo....

Congratulations!!!!  I can feel the excitement in your message.  It's fun to read and be excited with you.  Isn't this forum a great wealth of information?  When we were buying our motorhome, I had read everything here I could get my hands on.  The dealership was a bit awed at the things we asked and checked on.

See you in Quartzsite.

Marsha~
 
David, Kathy and Big Poo....

Congratulations on the new rig and on getting everything done the way you wanted it.

Let me know if you find someplace warm and sunny. Sunny here in Pahrump, Nevada, but 41 degrees and it's supposed to be a high of 40 in Las Vegas later this week. Of course, if we park ourselves in the hot tub, only the tops of our heads and our noses will be cold.

We'll be headed back to Colorado after Quartzsite so hope the next round of storms is the last!!!!

Wendy, Mike and Sam

 
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