Home Solar

[DonTom]

This section does not say it must be RV related!

Who here has non-RV home solar?

I am now adding solar to my Auburn, CA home, a Tesla Power Wall. The type of solar system that is rented, not owned by me. But first, I need to replace the 25-year-old roof, which will cost me around 25K$ and that will start in a week or two. The Powerwall is already installed, and ready to go but no solar on the roof yet.

I am not doing it to save money, in fact, I probably won't-at least not for a couple of years. PG&E jacks up their rates quite a bit faster than normal inflation (hey, it's CA, so that is expected!) unlike the solar company.

But I like the idea of reducing the load on the grid as well as having battery backup for the times the power goes out. As long as my A/C is not on in the summer, I probably won't even notice when the power goes out.

It's been raining in Auburn and snowing here in Reno, so that could cause some delays, but there is no hurry. It should be all in by spring in Auburn when the days are longer.

If I like the set-up in Auburn, I will do the same here a few months later. I think the roof here is just as old and will also need to be replaced, most likely, so at least another 25K$. Perhaps more here as the roofs have to be extra strong to hold the snow that comes around this time of year every year. Snow is rare in Auburn, at 1.5K feet elevation.

My Reno house here is on the very top of a hill (great view) and at 5K feet elevation and gets plenty of snow every year.

I figure both of these new roofs will outlive me and if I do not do it soon, I will soon have to anyway, in the next couple of years.

Is it best to own or rent such a solar system? I recall hearing when older, it's best to rent, but best you own when younger. Do others here who have such home solar systems agree?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tulecreeper]

If you have a battery back-up would be very smart - and you will be in the minority. The vast majority who install a system, from my experience, just have a direct to grid system and run off solar during the day and the grid at night. I always wondered what they did during an outage. I guess nothing.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

You don't have to say anything past "I am not doing it to save money". There's a lot of different reasons to have solar/battery and if saving money isn't one of them then the sky's the limit on how and why you want to spend the money on this. Now, own vs rent (or lease) implies you do care somewhat on return. It would seem an academic process to come up with a cost/benefit matrix for the options you have and decide what makes sense. The fact you're already renting the battery/inverter makes the panel decision kind of secondary, since that's not the more expensive part of the system. One of the factors I consider with rent/lease is the longevity of the company offering it. Far too many are just DBA's for someone else, here today/gone tomorrow. And, just what's "covered" in terms of maintenance and repair. The outfits that come around my house shilling solar either have to "come back to me" on that or only convey the OEM warranties.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

If you have a battery back-up would be very smart - and you will be in the minority. The vast majority who install a system, from my experience, just have a direct to grid system and run off solar during the day and the grid at night. I always wondered what they did during an outage. I guess nothing.

I would not even consider a system without a battery.

Tesla PowerWalls contain a 13.5 KWH (useable, 14KWH max) lith-ion battery. Seems small to me, but probably is enough. But my Energica Experia motorcycle contains a 22.5 KWH (max, 20 KW useable) lith-ion battery. So I won't be trying to charge it when the power is out.

Little things will be nice, such as my garage door openers will still work. A couple of times I had to open them manually because the power was out in Auburn.

BTW, Tesla cars come with a garage door opener (on the screen) that can be used for three different houses and be set to open the garage door as soon as you get into the driveway without even touching a button or doing anything. That was very handy when I used to own three houses. Telsa uses the GPS for things I would never have even thought about. Such as put in the mirrors for a very tight spot one time. Go to the same spot years later and they go in automatically without doing anything. Charge at different start times at different locations automatically and stull like that as well. This is handy when on an EV electric charge plan for different locations that start at different times in the middle of the night, such as Auburn and Reno. Of course, can press an icon on the screen and override and charge instantly at these locations. Instantly at any new location as well.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

The fact you're already renting the battery/inverter makes the panel decision kind of secondary, since that's not the more expensive part of the system.

Costs me nothing until the charging actually starts. It's all by the same company. BTW, the only reason I am renting is because they came to me, V3 Electric in CA and they only rent. You can say they talked me into it. They were going house to house and they found at least one sucker, me.

Their reviews (see in link) look mostly pretty bad. . .

But I have learned years ago to ignore all review ratings on anything (regardless of if mostly five or one star), other than for the fact there is often some good info. in the reviews.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

. One of the factors I consider with rent/lease is the longevity of the company offering it.

I have wondered what happens to my (I mean their) system if that happens. Does it get removed or do I then own it or what happens? Am I still paying for renting it but to somebody else?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tulecreeper]

I have wondered what happens to my (I mean their) system if that happens. Does it get removed or do I then own it or what happens? Am I still paying for renting it but to somebody else?

-Don- Reno, NV

I guess it would depend on if the company just went bankrupt, or if another company bought them out. Even then, there is no hard fast rule. I bought a new heat pump HVAC system a couple years ago and it came with a free tune-up/system check. I got that one 6 months later and paid for 2 more at that time, and when I called to schedule the 2nd one 6 months after that I found that the company had gone out of business and been bought by another company. The new company did not buy the contracts for the scheduled maintenance so I lost both system checks I had paid for - about $200 - and I had to pay another $200 to the new company for the 2 checks I had already paid for.

 

[garyb1st]

I'm interested in what you find out. I've looked at solar a number of times. For us, it's not cost effective. However I've thought a power wall as an emergency source of electric would be nice.

 

[DonTom]

However I've thought a power wall as an emergency source of electric would be nice.

Well, a generator would be a lot cheaper. But I am not crazy about that idea.

Not everything in this world is about money as some seem to think. If my solar systems cost me a few bucks more than my PG & E rate/NV Energy rates, I don't even care.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

For intermittent power, a generator is probably the most practical solution. A "good" dual fuel generator and a few tanks of propane will store indefinitely and give you all the power you could want for an extended duration. Batteries have a limited power delivery and solar replenishment is dependent on weather. Is your RV on premises? It's a perfunctory exercise to install a generator transfer switch to operate critical circuits from an external source. Since I've had my RV I've powered stuff in the house twice now due to outages. A transfer switch is a lot simpler and cheaper than a solar/battery system.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

For intermittent power, a generator is probably the most practical solution. A "good" dual fuel generator and a few tanks of propane will store indefinitely and give you all the power you could want for an extended duration. Batteries have a limited power delivery and solar replenishment is dependent on weather. Is your RV on premises? It's a perfunctory exercise to install a generator transfer switch to operate critical circuits from an external source. Since I've had my RV I've powered stuff in the house twice now due to outages. A transfer switch is a lot simpler and cheaper than a solar/battery system.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Yes, both of my RVs are at my Auburn house, 1.5 acres of land, no need to winterize (10F here in Reno this morning but well above freezing in Auburn (29F right now in Reno, 43F in Auburn). No HOA there but RVs are not level, too much slope, but I can get close to level by using the jack things one at a time instead of the auto level. When they had the power out for three days, I lived in one of the RVs during that time, several years ago.

I just like the solar idea better; I know there are many limits to the system with only 13.5 KWH of battery. If that gets drained down, back to the RV.

73, de -Don- AA6GA/7 Reno, NV

 

[garyb1st]

For intermittent power, a generator is probably the most practical solution. A "good" dual fuel generator and a few tanks of propane will store indefinitely and give you all the power you could want for an extended duration. Batteries have a limited power delivery and solar replenishment is dependent on weather. Is your RV on premises? It's a perfunctory exercise to install a generator transfer switch to operate critical circuits from an external source. Since I've had my RV I've powered stuff in the house twice now due to outages. A transfer switch is a lot simpler and cheaper than a solar/battery system.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Thank you for the post. Our RV is at the house and with its full 75 gallon gas tank, we'd have enough power to keep us going quite a while.

 

[SargeW]

The biggest downside to not owning a solar system is if you decide to sell the property than the new buyer has to agree to assume the contract before they can take possession of the property. I had to do that in Ca when I sold a house there. Even though I paid down most of the lease and there was only less than a year left on it, It was still another issue to be handled to close the transaction. If the new buyer refuses, or if the solar company turns down the new buyer, the only choice is to pay to have the system removed.

Maybe not an issue for you, just an FYI.

 

[DonTom]

The biggest downside to not owning a solar system is if you decide to sell the property than the new buyer has to agree to assume the contract before they can take possession of the property. I had to do that in Ca when I sold a house there. Even though I paid down most of the lease and there was only less than a year left on it, It was still another issue to be handled to close the transaction. If the new buyer refuses, or if the solar company turns down the new buyer, the only choice is to pay to have the system removed.

Maybe not an issue for you, just an FYI.

I doubt if I will ever sell either of my houses, but that is good to know.

BTW, when I walk around in the Auburn area near where I live, almost half the houses have a rather large solar system. Many of the others have too many trees or not enough daylight for other reasons. I have no idea if most are renting or own their solar systems.

Do you have any idea why the new buyer didn't want such a system? Or why would be turned down?

Was it saving you or costing you more than without it?

I would think if one was turned down on the solar, they would also be turned down on a mortgage loan. Unless paying cash and just didn't want to deal with solar. Some people are not only anti-EV, but anti-anything considered "green", to the point they want to know nothing about it other than not wanting it.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[SargeW]

It's kind of like some folks buying a new RV. They only want to put the minimum down to make the purchase, but somewhere down the road if they decide to sell they are up side down on the loan. Same can happen with a solar lease. A buyer may not want to put out the extra money for something that they might not get the value out of.

In my situation in the Ca house, my sister and her husband were living in the back of the property in a destination trailer full time. They used A LOT of power with AC units, washer dryer, and residential refer running 24/7. So the solar for me was a necessity as the bills were routinely over $300 a month, and that was 14 years ago.

 

[DonTom]

It's kind of like some folks buying a new RV. They only want to put the minimum down to make the purchase, but somewhere down the road if they decide to sell they are up side down on the loan. Same can happen with a solar lease. A buyer may not want to put out the extra money for something that they might not get the value out of.

In my situation in the Ca house, my sister and her husband were living in the back of the property in a destination trailer full time. They used A LOT of power with AC units, washer dryer, and residential refer running 24/7. So the solar for me was a necessity as the bills were routinely over $300 a month, and that was 14 years ago.

Since I am there in Auburn less than 50% of the time, my electric bill there is almost within reason. Perhaps I won't get enough use out of the solar to justify its cost, but I like the idea of it anyway.

Do you have any idea what the costs are to have such a solar system removed?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[SargeW]

Not really. I would expect it would be whatever the labor rate would be, and if there were any charges for ending the contract early it would depend on what was written in it when it was drawn up.

I looked at solar here in AZ as well, but after getting the quotes and doing the math, the break even point would still be about 9.5 years. If I had a pool I would go for it, but I just don't know if I will be in this house long enough to see a profit.

A back up generator and a transfer switch makes more sense for me.

 

[DonTom]

I looked at solar here in AZ as well, but after getting the quotes and doing the math, the break even point would still be about 9.5 years.

Did you look into renting the system as I will be doing?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I would think for the rent model it's $ per net Wh. They know this number, the question is if you know it. Then whatever overhead (installation, maintenance, repairs) you're in for over the duration of the rental period/contract. This is where most of the rent/lease plans fall apart, when it's all said and done the majority of benefit goes to the financier.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

I would think for the rent model it's $ per net Wh. They know this number, the question is if you know it. Then whatever overhead (installation, maintenance, repairs) you're in for over the duration of the rental period/contract. This is where most of the rent/lease plans fall apart, when it's all said and done the majority of benefit goes to the financier.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Well, after it is all in and working and after I get my first bills form both (PG&E as well as the solar company) I will post all the info. here so we can see from facts what it really is all about. But not much can be a bigger rip-off than CA PG&E. They jack up their rates more than the normal inflation rate.

But as I said, I am not doing this to try to save money, I just like the idea for other reasons. And if that works out well, I will do the same to this Reno house. I also assume this 25-year-old roof will need to be replaced as well. So that will be the big expenses here for me, perhaps a bit more than 50K$ on two new roofs.

The rain in Auburn will delay the roof replacement for a while. The roofing company just called me, but I expected them to get behind because of the weather.

-Don- Reno, NV