Horrendous Attack!

[Karl]

The only way I know how to get there is to use '"help"-  Start\Help and Support.

Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System Restore. While it will create restore points when certain activities take place, don't count on it doing so in all situations. Use this feature to create your own restore points before installing any new hardware/software/upgrades or any changes to the system registry. It's not a panacea, but can be very helpful in some situations.

 

[Karl]

Pierat,
I've been using PC-Cillin for years, and now use their Internet Security Suite. You can't find a better product. That, and Zone Alarm for a firewall, is all most people will ever need or want. Even the free versions of both products are better than most boxed software; Norton, McAffee, et al, not withstanding.

 

[John From Detroit]

Karl..   

Given my opinion of Consumer's Reports... "For what it's worth" would be translated to "Not much"

Though I don't think they are doing it any more.  When the first viruses, and the first anti virus programs, came out. I often wondered if the Anti-companies were paying people to create a market (Write viruses)  Well, a few months ago someone told me which company and what the virus writer did for his day job.

I'm not passing on names but I know many companies who have gone to great lengths to create a market.

I prefer AVG-FREE,    Though Girsoft does sell it's product..... They also give it away for personal use.  Very highly rated by reviewers I respect.  I do not respect Consumer's Reports.

 

[Karl]

John,

I'm not saying there aren't other good products like Grisoft, Panda, and others, just that the most recognized names out there are among the worst when it comes to actual performance. Like anything else, publications like Consumer Reports and others must be given some credibility (or not) based on your personal experience with their recommendations. My personal experience with Trend Micro and Zone Labs products over the years is the reason I can recommend them to others - not anything that's been written about them.

Re: writing viruses and other malware so they can say "We were the first to find it and the first to have a fix" to bolster sales, is unlikely but not impossible. Heck, there are enough hackers out there who do it just because it can be done. No need to invent ones for themselves, but then they'd actually have to work to come up with the detection and solution.  :

 

[John From Detroit]

Karl, My tirade is primarily against Consumer Reports.  They have repeatedly lost all creditability in my eyes over several reviews they have posted over the years, In addition I've spoken with others who have read other reviews where they lost even more. For example, as we all know Ford and GM sell the same car with different names.  A friend of mine in CA works for the auto companies so he pays attention to the auto-reviews. And they reviewed two cars, Loved one, panned the other, fact is.... Same car with two different name plates on it.  SEVERAL TIMES per him.  I've caught a few of those too.

As for PC-Cillin, I've nothing against them and they are NOT the company I suspected many years ago (They were not around then) nor are they the company that was reported to me as hiring a virus writer to get the jump on competition and keep an active market for upgrades. That company I will not name They have way better lawyers than I can afford.

PC-Cillin has gotten some good reviews in other more respectable publications, Not top, but top 10 Other products include Computer Assoicates and AVG.

Any of the top 10 are likely good enough, for best results though you need 2 or 3.    I got infected one time several years ago and it took a suite of software to get rid of it. (Multiple AV products, including F-Prot)  I used F-Prot for years but the free version does not play nice with NT and XP is an NT distro.

 

[rhmahoney]

Ned:I wouldn't want any Apple users to be computing unsafely, so read this article from yesterday.  41 vulnerability fixes in one patch day.


This article from a notorious anti Apple site seems to be discussing several upgrades:
Leopard .1 first upgrade issued 20 days after the original release (right on schedule, Tiger .1 was issued at 16 days).
Tiger .11 upgrade (probably the last one) and includes Safari 3 (the leopard version).
Safari for windows got a bug fix upgrade as well.
I think there are a couple of security upgrades also.

Tomorrow, roughlydrafted, ars technica, and macdailynews will have parsed the offerings and weeded out the hate speech, then we can see what realy has been patched.

 

[BernieD]

FWIW recently Consumer Reports top-rated Trend Micro's PC-Cillin suite, which basically is an all-in-one protection program.

And PC World ranked PC-Cillin in last place due to poor malware detection. I had been very happy with Zone Alarm, CR's 2nd rated package until the last year when it became too intrusive and finicky. I check CR's ratings and evaluations constantly, but it is just one source, just like PC World. However, in computers and software, I've found PCW to be more reliable than CR.

 

[Ron]

And PC World ranked PC-Cillin in last place due to poor malware detection. I had been very happy with Zone Alarm, CR's 2nd rated package until the last year when it became too intrusive and finicky. I check CR's ratings and evaluations constantly, but it is just one source, just like PC World. However, in computers and software, I've found PCW to be more reliable than CR.

I lost any confidence I might have had in PC world when they recommend Spyware Doctor.  I used it for a while but seemed that with each update things got slower so I removed it.  Another member here didn't get it removed off his computer soon enough and experienced a crash.  Had to reinstall everything from scratch.  I have no faith in PC World.

My SIL is a programmer and his friend is in the business of cleaning up infected computers.  When my daughters computer at work was having problems and the local shop said the only thing to do was format and reinstall her boss agreed to let her take it home.  My SIL and his friend worked for hours cleaning up the drive and guess what they were using TREND MICRO.  They did not have to format C and the computer works just fine.

 

[Ned]

Russ, I'll believe the news from the general security web sites over the fanboys   See the same story here.

 

[Cricketdaddy]

I read the rave reviews of PC-Cillin, bought it for my wife's computer and it gave her fits for months. Constant stalls and freezing. We did everything we know to do, cache cleaning, defrags, unplugging external hard drive, and then we followed directions found elsewhere. Nothing worked until we uninstalled it. Now we're both back on Norton, which we hated for years.

I think it all depends on the programs you're running and how clean you keep the data. Just my two cents' worth.

 

[Ned]

If people would use their innate intelligence and simple common sense when using the internet, there wouldn't be any need for all these additional antivirus and malware scanner programs.  A good firewall, already built in to all operating systems, is all that's really necessary to keep your computer free of malware.

 

[Will]

I wouldn't count on that, Ned.  A good trojan (and there are a few tens of thousands of them) will have no trouble getting through a firewall.  And most spyware is unwittingly installed by the user - usually attached to a program that has full firewall privileges.  Once those programs are in, they are very good at poking holes in the firewall and opening up the floodgates for all kinds of malicious malware.

Firewalls serve as a good basic line of defense, but I would still not run a computer without other protection.  For those unwilling to pay for antivirus, I recommend the free version of AVG.

 

[Ned]

Malware can only get into the computer if the user lets it in.  Any firewall will block any outside attacks, but if the user clicks on a link to a malware infested web site, yes, it can get inside.  The trick is to use common sense when browsing, and using care when receiving email attachments.  I used to run an anti-virus program and software firewall, and never saw them catch anything, and they only slowed my computer down.  I've run with just the XP firewall and my router firewall for over 2 years now and still haven't been infected.  Any email with an attachment that I'm not expecting never gets into the computer at all.  I use MailWasher to screen all my email and any with an executable attached gets deleted on the server.

Even if you're not running a LAN, the simple technique of putting a router behind a broadband modem, running NAT and stateful packet inspection firewall, will keep out anything not invited in by the user.  However, as long as people think they can get rich by clicking a link in a spam email, or go to web sites that they haven't checked out in advance, they will get infected, but it can be prevented.

 

[cuts_up]

A friend of mine recently had something similar.  Of course she "clicked here" and crap starting flashing all over.  She's not too computer-savvy.  She always calls me with her pc problems, but I couldn't help her over the phone with a virus.  I told her go call someone who could reload her software for her.  That was about a week ago and her pc seems to be working fine now.  BTW, she had no anti-virus software.  I told her to get some over a year ago.  She has it now, but that still won't help if she clicks something else she doesn't recognize.  We've had so many bad virus attacks, mostly when DD was a teenager.  Hmmm... I wonder if there was a connection.

 

[Ron]

Good advise Ned.  Like a lot of things computer infections are often self inflicted.

 

[Ray D]

I'm going to pick on some experts, here. I have, what I think is, good reason to do that. We have experts, here, in a lot of areas. It is fantastic that they share their expertise, so freely. All of us who have benefited are grateful.  ;D

I'd still be having a tough time with my MH and my electronics, particularly my cell and my PC, but for that help. I certainly am grateful-appreciative.

However, if I were sensitive to being told I lack ?common sense,? or that I do ?stupid? things, I wouldn't be asking questions. I'd be too embarrassed, too timid.

Fortunatly, I already knew that I have no common sense, and that I occasionally do stupid things, as the day winds along. So, I keep asking, keep learning, keep showing my lack of ?common sense.?  :-\

To get right to the subject, ?computer-common-sense? would be a level of expertise that fits the majority of the uneducated public ? or, perhaps, might include the majority of the somewhat educated public.

One thing I do know, as I occsionally talk to friends about computer challenges, is that ?common sense? will get you killed, electronically speaking. ?Common sense? is dangerous!

For the electronic experts, here, I'm sorry but you have no common sense. You left it behind, years ago. You are too well educated, too well studied, too experienced, to remember anything about it.

What you do have is ?expert sense.? I am pleased to be the beneficiary, as I have said ? and I know many others are as well. Please note, that among you experts, there is disagreement on a number of issues. 

You have to have a strong level of expertise to argue those issues, at all. You have to have a high level of expertise to understand the argument. Sorry guys, none of you have a lick of ?common sense? when it comes to electronics.  ;D

Please, don't get offended. I already admitted that I have no common sense. We are in good company.

And, I have a couple of fields of ?Court Certified Expertise.? I have exposed one of those fields, here. Take a field of knowledge and break it into many subjects, and in just one of those small subjects, I  know my way around, expertly. I have two obervations to mention.

The first is that if you wander about in that field, ?common sense? could get you killed. It ain't good enough! Get a little extra education, first; then wander, carefully.

The second is that I got into a few discussions, here, with other experts. One of those discussions, with someone I already knew to have expertise similar to, or better than my own, briefly, got a bit spicy. The issue was what to do in a one-in-ten-thousand unlikely event. In that rare event, it was a coin-toss ? could go either way. No real room for expert dissagreement, there! I took a look at it, realized my error, and set it straight. No dissagreement remained.

So, in my field, those who have decided not to participate are wise- and should stick to that decision. I'm sorry, but the same does not apply in the world of electronics. The general public, with real public ?common sense,? are welcome, and should participate, and may find the going rough, for quite a while. If they need Norton, (et al) for a crutch, help them, anyway. Abandoning the electronic assistance is not the answer, in the face of a lack of expertise. And it is decidedly not ?common sense.?

Whew! Am I going to get out of this alive? 

Ray D  :  ;D

 

[Ned]

Nobody suggested abandoning the "crutches", just remember they're just that, a crutch, not a cure.  It may (or may not) keep someone from getting into trouble if they do something they shouldn't but don't count on it.  Thinking before clicking can save a lot of grief.

 

[Ray D]

Ned, you've been Johnny-on-the-spot, for me, several times. Often first, always helpful. You sure do know your way around. Hope you are there, next time, and there will be a "next time."

In my electronically blind eyes, I have noted a number of comments that appear to suggest gettting rid of AV programs, with disagreement, among experts, as to how much else, one doesn't need. Several have maligned Norton, in particular. Norton seems to be the principle "whipping boy."

Myself, I don't know. I have McAfee on my new Vista computer and am growing to like it. However, my first computer, purchased in '91 had Norton on it when I got it. (I bought the 32MB hard drive, upgrade, on that one! Replaced the 16MB.) I've had Norton, since, and still have it on the MPC desktop - Lazarus - the one that crashed and then fixed itself.

Norton has let a virus through, three times, in those years. On one occasion it stopped the very vigorous infection and "called home." It was repaired, remotely, on line. The last step of the repair I had to do myself, with an advisor assisting me in an IM window. One required a reload and start over. The last one is the one in this thread. Frankly, not bad for 16 years, in my opinion.

How good is Norton? I don't know. McAfee better? Don't know that, either. Something else better than either? With my level of expertise, no way to judge. It would be "shooting in the dark,"  and I like to avoid "shooting in the dark!"  :

Thank you so much for your help, over the months of my experimentation.  ;D

Ray D  ;D

 

[Ned]

The biggest problem with all of the anti-malware programs is they work in a reactive mode.  They can only protect against a threat if they know about and can recognize it.  The malware writers keep getting smarter at avoiding detection, and the new viruses and trojans are propagated so quickly they often are widespread before the AV people even know about them.  That's why it's not a good idea to depend on your AV software to protect you, you still have to use your head.  Once one of the new breed of malware gets into your computer, it mutates so even the updated AV software can't see it, and if it's a rootkit, as so many of them are today, it may be nearly impossible to find let alone remove.

Again, thinking before clicking is the first line of protection.  And just because I run with a minimum, but very functional, security in place doesn't mean everyone should.  Just don't think you're completely safe because you're not.

 

[Ray D]

I agree, and the same cuidado applies in my field. "Protection" doesn't make you safe. The trick is to avoid the threat, to start with. In my field, that is not patently obvious, and becomes less obvious with training. It has to be taught! It has to be part of the corriculum! Experience is the only reliable teacher, and that is the wrong way to learn. 

Similar, aren't they!  ;D

Ray D  ;D