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Hey Gang,

Sorry it's been a while since checking-in with the forum. LOL, some of you may have figured I lost the interest in the RV thing....nahh, I'm still on it.

Okay....as per Carl's suggestion in buying a trailer and towing it with the Yukon. Solid idea, BUT, this whole thing started when we bought ATV's and wanted better accomodations then pitching tents, eating out of a cooler and riding to the park outhouses. Bottom line; we need to be able to tow our 18-foot trailer and that's where the RV comes in. Sure, a huge toy-hauler could tow the toys and give us a place to sleep, eat, etc....BUT you need a serious hauling truck with a dually rear-end and diesel engine to pull that mess.

I will say this: first & foremost my purchasing an RV is for the desert camping and a place to stay while doing the ATV thing. I really have no plans or thoughts in terms of visiting RV parks and traveling the states, etc. Will we? Perhaps....but my most immediate and primary use of this vehicle is for the desert camping while ATV'ing.

My 1st pick is the Fleetwood 31-foot Tioga/Jamboree model 31M....we're talking a double-slide Class C and I'm figuring on a used '05-'07 (so we get the front window over the cab)...figure about $54,000

My thought is that if we're just buying a glorified camping vehicle for our desert use....we could scale it down to an '04-'07 26Q which  is nearly the same thing but with no slides and a chair instead of a sofa...but HALF the price.

From what I gather, it sounds like we'd need a Toad if we plan to do the 'roam the states' for weeks at a time staying at various RV parks and traveling thousands of miles from home. It's a significant commitment.

Making matters more confusing, my buddy (who rented me his Class A Fleetwood 39-foot triple slide) absolutely insists that I'm making a huge mistake going Class C...he says I won't be happy and I'm making a mistake: I need a big-gun, diesel-pusher, super-deluxe to the tune of 6-figure$

So do I do the $25k thing, the $54k thing or the $100k thing?

The bottom line is that no RV can be EVERYTHING....

The good news is that my neighbor down the street, for a living, buys RV's at the auctions and then sells them....this is where many RV yards get their used inventory. He's agreed to take me (and my cash) to the auction and I'm gunning for a 31M...more then we need for just desert weekends, but nice enough that we can do some traveling up the coast and if the full-blown RV bug bites, whose to say we can't sell and move up? So that's my plan....auction is next week and we'll see what the economy brings in. The 31M is a popular model and we should be able to find one in the next couple months. We're really hell-bent on the front window so that limits us to the '05-'07...but they're out there...
 
With kids / grandkids etc. IMO a Class C is the way to go.  My grandkids absolutely love the cab-over bunk bed - not just for sleeping but they watch TV/DVD (their own with earphones) and play board games etc.  The space just gets them out from under your feet.  It's also great for storing extra bedding/clothing etc. while travelling.

Just something to consider with a Class C...Some of the cabs/driving areas are set well below the living space.  The step down on some makes/models can be quite dramatic.  This makes for something of a difficult viewing position (to the right) while driving.    My 'C' - Dutchman Express - and others in the Thor/Four Winds family - has an almost level floor surface between the driver's area and living space.  It makes the whole space seem larger, more usuable and affords good visibility through the living room side windows while driving. 

Good fortune with the auction. 

BT
 
Of all the floorplans in C's, the 31M is our favorite.  If you can buy one at auction, and do your own inspection, good on ya. 

 
We looked at towing a car:  However....

How much fuel will you add for towing?  How much will the tow system cost??
How much will the extra insurance cost?  What about damage to the tow car?

Add it all up:  then call enterprise in the location you plan on being.

Car rental is the way to go for us.  We use shuttles and or buses and even our bikes to get around when we RV

We are not fulltimers - we holiday in our unit for about 6-8 weeks per year.

Cars are usually $25-35 per day to rent and Enterprise will pick you up.  If not on our way to a location, I drop my wife off, she rents the car them follows me and the kids to the site.

Jay
 
We looked at towing a car:  However....

How much fuel will you add for towing?    Negligble with most cars.
How much will the tow system cost??  This can be pricey, but most of it a one time cost. Probably close to $3k for setup.
How much will the extra insurance cost?  Don't think there is any extra, both already insured.
What about damage to the tow car?  Damage?  if you hit stuff, sure.  OR damage perceived for adding tow plate? 

For occasional short trips, probaly easier with a tow dolly or renting.  For a multi year investment, the cost of renting will exceed the cost of buying the gear.  The tow bar and brake system will move from car to car, the tow plate you need with each car.  $400 to $700 or so.  BUT, buy a car for towing , have it done and keep it for a time...

Last summer we had bikes, a motorcycle and rented a car.  Got a great deal on an older car, but would have preferred my own.
 
I don't tow anything behind my 27' Allegro. I usually park it and walk. Much cheaper, easier and healthier.
 
You lead an interesting life.  I'd still be walking in Yellowstone if I tried that.  If it works for you, and is right for your circumstances, then that is fine.  For most of us, we need some other form of transport.

 
I agree, the 31M seems like a great floor plan. At first I thought the double-window passage to the rear was odd, but then you come to terms with the fact that you need some means of getting to the back...it's just unusual to see it running along the outside wall....but it affords two major benefits:

1) A great deal of privacy while in the rear bedroom, nobody can look back and see what's going on back there.

2) The bathroom is brilliant; the toilet and shower both are in the corners so you have some serious elbow-room. The bathroom/shower in the 31M was WAY better then the bathroom/shower in our friends super-deluxe triple-slide 39-foot Class A

I also like the way the slide-out for the master bed puts windows pillow-side so you can see out. The front of the cab with the couch/dinette offers a nice family room area and the overhead cab is something the kids absolutely love.

FWIW, the 31M design was duplicated in Fleetwood's new Endeavor design..but being a Class A, it lacks the front cab-over bunk. I can't rationalize the Class A, it's less aerodynamic in the front, lacks the front cab-over bunk and the additional weight is something that only a diesel should tackle.

I also prefer the mid-entry into the M31 design, why walk all the way up and through the RV just to get in/out. I honestly wish they would have shoved a Duramax diesel into the engine compartment of these Class C's rather then a V10 or big Vortec. Like I say, any vehicle weighing in excess of 5,000 pounds really should have a diesel engine. I wouldn't think to own a Class A with a gas engine and it just seems to me that if you commit to a Class A, you just have to pull the trigger big-time and spend 6 figures.

And yes...I think we can search ahead and find a rental car place in any area we are headed. Sure, my wife may have to follow us to the RV camp ground, but it's no biggy. Think of all the money we'll save on not buying a toad, getting it set-up  to tow, registering it, insuring it and the extra fuel cost in towing 2,500 pounds. Hassle? Nahh.....a hassle is getting to the airport 3 hours early to deal with security (thank you muslims).

So yeah....we'll start with a Class C and look for a solid M31 at the auction. I'm told that most RV yards look to mark these things up about $10-$14k and if we can save half of that, we can deal with a few unknowns. I'll be looking for a low-mileage RV and I'm fairly mechanical enough to give it a good look-over before buying. If we can buy from the same source as these RV yards get their used inventory from, why not try...I'll give it a few months before submitting to paying retail at the bigger yards.

On a quick note, I can't understand why so many Class C's have gotten away from putting windows in the front of the cabs. With the window it makes the RV seem larger and more airy, not to mention the fun the kids have up there. Without the window, it's like a cave & dark. I was told the window was the #1 warranty issue with leaking and that it lets a lot of heat in & out, but still...in my opinion it's an integral design in these RV's..gotta have it, and that limits us to the M31's made from '05 to '06 and a few in '07 

I'll be hunting... :)

Thanks for the advise & thoughts guys!!! 
 
First off, the Encounter is available with a cab over bunk.  It comes down from the ceiling.  It is an option.  Second, aerodynamics?  You think a C is better?  Neither are great, but a C is less so.  The window in the cab over removal is the best thing they have ever done.  Leakage over time, temperature up there, and for opening the feeling by seeing out, the curtains are not that east to open and close, so they get closed and left that way in most cases.  Had that before.  Mid entry, the Encounter is mid entry.  Only diesels are front entry.  Vehicles weighing more than 5,000?  Diesel?  What do you think the C weighs? 

Your opinions need to be tempered with experience.  My A weighs about 20,000 lbs, gets up to about 8mpg, and the windshield is our front window you miss on the C.  The C will get about 10mpg.  YMMV.
 
I can't understand why so many Class C's have gotten away from putting windows in the front of the cabs.
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The earlier vintage RVs had the cabover bunk because they were designed to sleep as many as possible.  Things changed as they began adding things like TVs and other entertainment system items.  They needed room for all the toys we consumers wanted and the overcab bed pretty much disappeared and that space became an entertainment or home theater system.  Our early Class Cs had no TVs (well, does a portable DC kind count that we stored on the bed or in a cupboard?), no microwaves, no DVD players, no satellite TV, no CD players, etc.  In other words it was a "plain vanilla" motorhome.  Our last Class C had an entertainment center up front and huge storage on both sides where the overcab bed had been located on earlier models.  It also had the rear bedroom so we no longer had to climb a ladder to get into bed.

But, you're right.  We took our niece and nephew in our last Class C and they loved looking out the window.  If we were traveling with kids all the time that might be a priority with us too.

ArdraF
 
i use to haul a scooter with my 37' Allegro, and it became a pain in the arse..now i do what  Verden does...call Enterprise ,they bring the vehicle ($25-$35 a day ) ....traveled 16,000 miles last year, rented  vehicle's from Enterprise 3 times for a total of $ 473.00...about what insurance would cost for a toad
 
PancakeBill said:
First off, the Encounter is available with a cab over bunk.  It comes down from the ceiling.  It is an option.  Second, aerodynamics?  You think a C is better?  Neither are great, but a C is less so.  The window in the cab over removal is the best thing they have ever done.  Leakage over time, temperature up there, and for opening the feeling by seeing out, the curtains are not that east to open and close, so they get closed and left that way in most cases.  Had that before.  Mid entry, the Encounter is mid entry.  Only diesels are front entry.  Vehicles weighing more than 5,000?  Diesel?  What do you think the C weighs? 

Your opinions need to be tempered with experience.  My A weighs about 20,000 lbs, gets up to about 8mpg, and the windshield is our front window you miss on the C.  The C will get about 10mpg.  YMMV.
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Pancake makes some great points!

I'm not looking to buy new, so the Encounter (not Endeavor, my error) is out of the question. And my point about any vehicle weighing more then 5,000 is that is SHOULD have a diesel engine! My Hummer H2 weighs in excess of 6,000 pounds, so I'm more then certain a Class C, even the smallest is far more in weight.

Today's Class C's have the bunks...and they still have the large swing-out LCD flat screens that mimic the center screen that most Class A's have. They also have convection microwaves and other luxuries.

One quick point...the center location of the large tv in the Class A is rather annoying...the couch doesn't face it, you have to sit forward and look 90-degrees sideways. But hey, it's all a compromise from an otherwise 350 sq/ft living room at a house.

Okay....here are some numbers and new thinking....and I do appreciate all your input & thoughts. The '05-'06 M31 that I want to buy, at the auction, will cost between $40-$44k if my resources are correct in telling me that the big RV yards all mark these RV's up at least $10k. They list 'em for $59k-$62k and their bottom-line price is $53k(as confirmed by calling 3 yards that have some in stock) ....so based on the inside info that they mark 'em up $10k-$14k it would stand to reason I should be prepared to spend about $40k-$42k

Then, because I hate being anything but level and don't want the RV bobbing around everytime someone walks or moves (one owner told me he can feel the RV shift when he's sitting and crosses his legs)...I'm going to have leveling jacks installed. Hello: that's $3,500 to $5,000 done right.  I know I could just use leveling blocks but that still leaves the rig sitting on it's springy suspension and prone to movement when people move inside it (kids jumping, playing, etc). So as I see it, I'm into this thing for at least $45k

Okay....now I found this on Craigslist this morning. It's a Class A...and of course it's struggling to pull it's massive weight with a gasser V10, but at least this rig is just 32-feet. The rear bedroom has the slide-out that likely has 2 windows on each side. The front slide moves the dinette & couch. It doesn't have trhe couch opposing the dinette as I'd like, nor does it have the big bathroom....but it comes with a warranty, the mileage (10k) is low, it's got the satellite antenna, hydraulic levelers, lots of storage and just seems like a great deal. For some reason I'm seeing a lot of great deals on A's but not on C's. The negative is that there is no cab-over bunk but my 3 kids can use the couch & dinette....still, the overhead bunk was a big deal. But the asking price is $42k and all things considered this is hard to pass-up. It even has an electric awning and other great stuff....what do you guys think:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/rvs/1548407504.html
 
Bikeswimlaugh said:
Okay....now I found this on Craigslist this morning. It's a Class A...and of course it's struggling to pull it's massive weight with a gasser V10, but at least this rig is just 32-feet.
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I can't understand why you think a V10 can't move a 32' motor home without a struggle. ??? ::)  Of course you're not going to get the feeling of raw power that you do driving that over-sized and overweight H2, or feel the wind in your hair like you do on those ATV's, but then maybe that's your thing.

Very few of us race our motorhomes.  I, for one, have outgrown it. ;) :D

 
I like the class c we bought, but will tell you more later when we use it much.  It has twin beds in the back easy to make, shower/tub on one side, commode and sink on the other.  And I've seen quite a few floor plans with the commode opening in front of the foodprep area and sink, yuck.  I know its all in my mind but not appetizing to me.  We have almost a separate little kitchen and the cabover is great.  We pulled the table and benches out, making one bench along the wall.

This way if just daughter and I go, that works and if hubby is home too that works.  We don't need to push out a couch which takes up the whole area.  She can sleep longer up top if she wants or in the back. She has already claimed the cabover area for herself and her things.
 
aka Porky said:
I can't understand why you think a V10 can't move a 32' motor home without a struggle. ??? ::)  Of course you're not going to get the feeling of raw power that you do driving that over-sized and overweight H2, or feel the wind in your hair like you do on those ATV's, but then maybe that's your thing.

Very few of us race our motorhomes.  I, for one, have outgrown it. ;) :D
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Actually, the H2 is under-powered and even with it's large gas-guzzling (11-13mpg) V8 engine it lugs up hills and can barely get out of it's own way. It is in fact based on this that I figure a gas engine just isn't suitable for a Class A vehicle and that diesel is the way to go.

I guess I've also heard too many Class A diesel-pusher owners swear that IF you go Class A, you MUST go diesel to do it right. I gues it stands to reason that after you blow the extra bucks for glow plugs instead of spark plugs, you want to preach it's merits to the tune of it being the only right choice.

I know this also sounds odd, but I just keep feeling a bit guilty buying another gas-guzzling vehicle. If I can get the job done with a smaller/lighter Class C, then it just seems the more, lol...environmental choice.

I dunno, the cab of the Class C is similar to my wife's Yukon XL or my Hummer, whereas the Class A is...well...basically a full-size large bus. But seriously, I didn't mean to open-up a can of worms with one of the most controversial issues: C vs. A

I recognize the A for having levelers, more basement storage and being larger and more luxurious. If I were going to travel for weeks or months and live out of an RV, it's the more ideal choice. But for what might just amount to a few weekend trips to the desert for ATV'ing and perhaps an occassional trip to a state park...I'm inclined to think the C might be the better call. And hey, if I buy it right at the auction, I could always turn n' burn and upgrade to another RV. You know, you can't change your wife or kids but you CAN change your RV! ;)
 
Bikeswimlaugh said:
....what do you guys think:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/rvs/1548407504.html
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I think it it were me considering buying this one I would find out what chassis it has and if it's a Workhorse W22 I would pass.  Google "Workhorse Brake Recall" if you're not familiar with the issues.

Bob
 
OP:  Have you driven a Class A or a Class C yet?  The comfort level driving 1 of these things is important.  I drove some class A's and man I couldn't stand how they drove.  I drove a Class C (ended up buying it) and loved it.  Just like driving a dually truck.  I still enjoy driving it around.  I tell my friends its got the smoothest ride of any of our cars. Floats like a caddy.  Anyway I suggest driving both kinds of RV. 

Also a Toad is a must IMO.  Since your into ATV's etc I'd recommend a Jeep. TJ, XJ, JK etc.  Jeeps are easy to flat tow and if you get a TJ or JK you have an offroad convertable for all those stateparks.  I avoid RV Parks and think they Feel like big trailer parks to me and they often have some annoying rules..  Our Class C is 29' so it will easily fit into state park campgrounds etc so we usually stay in places like that with lots of trees and in a nature setting. 

Also start small and grow into larger RV's.  The mechanic, offroad fabrication, macho, trucker side of me kept saying deisel pusher but the financial side said start simple and grow into it and thats worked well.  The wife and daughter really enjoy it and now the conversations are started by her saying "The next RV we should get this ______" :)

L8r

 
WOWWWWWWW! This should have been posted over at RV.net, those "nice" guys would have funnnn!
J
 
34footer said:
WOWWWWWWW! This should have been posted over at RV.net, those "nice" guys would have funnnn!
J
Click to expand...

Not even sure what that means...but I can well imagine. :D

Jeep07....pretty much my idea too; start small, enjoy a year or so and I can always move along to a new toy.

Got an auction coming-up this Thursday, let's see what the inventory brings in!
 
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