I'd like to talk about the licence laws

[TimG]

I intend to take a long vacation to the USA and travel the country (regarding the visa situation i think i know what to do.)
What i'm not fully understanding are the licence laws. Each state has their individual laws etc. So here is where it gets complicated in my mind. Do i need to fulfill each states requirements to travel in that state? California and Nevada have a 10,000 pound tow cap. There are numerous states that have 25.000 pound laws which require either commercial or non-commercial drivers licence's.
Since i'll be driving on a UK licence (with the associated IDP) where do i stand?
I know the weights i am talking are larger vehicles and that is what i'm looking at for purchase, although in particular the California laws have drastically reduced my vision of what 5th wheel i would like.

 

[Kirk]

Since i'll be driving on a UK licence (with the associated IDP) where do i stand?

First, your UK license is acceptable in the US and all of the states accept any legal driving license. But you will need to have an address in the USA in order to purchase your RV as it must be registered and insured to an address in the country. I suggest you read this article to get some feel for what is involved. A good way to solve the address issue would be to join the Escapees RV Club and use the address service that they can provide.

 

[Oldgator73]

I have a Class D drivers license issued in Delaware. My license states I can drive or tow a vehicle with a GVWR up to 26,001 pounds. I take that to mean anywhere in the US. I don’t know what your UK license will afford you. I lived in the UK for 5 years working as a civilian for US Forces. I had to carry a special license issued by the UK stating I was legal to drive there.

 

[Larry N.]

Do i need to fulfill each states requirements to travel in that state? California and Nevada have a 10,000 pound tow cap. There are numerous states that have 25.000 pound laws which require either commercial or non-commercial drivers licence's.

For weights on the road, speed limits, how many units you can tow (one? two?) and a number of other things, you must abide by the laws in whichever state, but for your license, as Kirk stated above, whatever it's good for by the issuing authority is accepted by all states, at least when that authority is another state. I'm not sure exactly how that translates to your situation but Tony or Jackie should be able to clarify that for you, as they live in the UK also.

 

[TimG]

Thank you for those replies. I have read almost every article I can lay my hands on regarding this subject. and use this ARTICLE as a good source for upto date information (march 2020)
I'm fully aware of the need to have both towing and towed vehicles registered and insured to an address in the country.
Thank you for the correction regarding 26,000 lbs (25,000 lbs was not correct)

I have a Class D drivers license issued in Delaware. My license states I can drive or tow a vehicle with a GVWR up to 26,001 pounds. I take that to mean anywhere in the US.

BTW OldGator check point 3.0 (3.0 Applicability) on this LINK it states licence requirements are waved for RV and towing RV vehicles in Delaware

If the above is true then it would behoove me to try and get an American drivers licence in one of the other states that do not have any restrictions. Yet as i delved further into this approach it appears you can get a licence but it is temporary until the end of your I-98 form departure record. Is this correct?

Another alternative i thought might be a good approach would be to get a HGV1 licence here in the UK but i found out that they are not transferable to the USA (Canada's OK with it not USA) again is this correct?

 

[jackiemac]

How old is your UK licence? The older the better.

What does it allow you you to tow?

I passed my test over 30 years ago and it allows me to tow / drive a large heavy vehicle.

Compare old and new driving licence categories

Groups and categories for driving licences issued before 15 October 2012 - find equivalent new licence categories and what vehicles you can drive

www.gov.uk

Edited as info below out of date
From Caravan & Camping club:

What can I tow without a trailer licence?​

If you passed your test before 1 January 1997: Combined weight of car and caravan outfit up to 8,250kg.
If you passed your test after 1 January 1997: Combined weight of car and caravan outfit up to 3,500kg.
Over 70 years of age (provided licence obtained before 1 January 1997): Only vehicles that can be safely towed by a 3,500kg towing vehicle.

Your UK licence is valid in the US.

You can also obtain an International Driving Licence from some Post Offices for less than £10. Its basically a validation with your photo. We have never been asked for one but Tony Lemon was when renting in one state.

 

[Oldgator73]

BTW OldGator check point 3.0 (3.0 Applicability) on this LINK it states licence requirements are waved for RV and towing RV vehicles in Delaware

Class D Operators License just means you can operate a vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds carrying less than 16 persons. Anything over those parameters you would need a CDL. RV’s are exempt.

 

[jackiemac]

And from US government website

Driving in the U.S. if you are not a citizen | USAGov

Learn about International Driving Permits (IDPs) and how to get one before you visit the U.S. Some states also require a driving permit from your country.

www.usa.gov

 

[TimG]

How old is your UK licence? The older the better.

What does it allow you you to tow?

I passed my test over 30 years ago and it allows me to tow / drive a large heavy vehicle.

I passed my test in 2002 which is apparently awful since i'm allowed to drive a vehicle of only 3,500KG (7716.lb's) but that would be in the UK. Your own tow vehicle @jackiemac would need a "special licence" in Nevada and California its only 500lbs over but i wouldn't want to argue it on an insurance claim.

This would be a journey in the USA.
AS I understand it (I could be totally wrong) I can go and buy a big fat Land yacht like a Prevost or a Newell (40,000lb+) and tow behind it a toy hauler (like 17,000lbs) in a state like OldGators Delaware because they designate RV's and trailers used solely as recreational as exempt from needing either a "Non-Commercial Drivers Licence"(NCDL) or a "Commercial Drivers Licence."(CDL)

Taken from Delawares DMV site

Waivers for CDL Provisions​

Non-commercial driver licenses are issued to those drivers who operate farm, fire fighting, and other emergency equipment under this waiver. In order to obtain a Non-CDL an applicant must pass a knowledge test and road test in the class of vehicle for which they are applying, either Class A or B. The skills and pre-trip tests are waived for this type of license. No special licenses are required when operating personal recreation vehicles, commercial motor vehicles for military purpose and emergency vehicles used in the preservation of life or property. The following defines these waived class of vehicles:
...
...

D/ Recreational vehicles or trailers defined in Title 21 which provide temporary living quarters and are used solely for recreational purposes.

Nevada and California are the biggest problems. Towing limited to 10,000lbs (15,000lbs with a 5th wheel endorsement) how do you get the endorsement if you don't own a USA licence?
That means a CDL or NCDL are completely out of the question. Since i cant see a clear route to get one since i cannot get a USA licence for longer than 6 months (max a year)
Does it matter where the vehicle is registered and tagged etc. or is it all down to the licence location?

How have so many non-American's managed to 5th wheel in California and Nevada? What am i missing? is this a new problem or am i just plain wrong in some way..

 

[Isaac-1]

I am not sure how all this applies to you being from the UK, but as a general rule state laws regarding vehicles fall into 2 categories, license issue which are based on the state where the license is issued, and vehicle related issues.

I live in Louisiana and have a standard basic drivers license, which legally allows me to drive any privately owned and operated vehicle regardless of the weight, this is accepted in other states with no restrictions, however if I were to live 20 miles away in Texas, I would have to have a special non-commercial class B license to drive anything over 26,000 pounds. So I could own a 40,000 pound diesel pusher motorhome and legally drive it anywhere in the US with my basic license. It all comes down to what a person can legally drive with a given license level in their home state.

Now there are towing and length restrictions that vary by state, and those you must comply with the state laws on. For example a 45 ft diesel pusher motorhome towing a 19 ft long car with a 3 ft long tow bar, would have an overall length of about 67 ft, which is over the 65 ft length limit for some states, but not over the 75 ft length limit of others. Multi trailer towing is another law that varies by state, ie towing a boat behind a 5th wheel trailer, being towed behind a pickup truck (this is legal in about half the states).

 

[Rob&Deryl]

I am not sure how all this applies to you being from the UK, but as a general rule state laws regarding vehicles fall into 2 categories, license issue which are based on the state where the license is issued, and vehicle related issues.

I live in Louisiana and have a standard basic drivers license, which legally allows me to drive any privately owned and operated vehicle regardless of the weight, this is accepted in other states with no restrictions, however if I were to live 20 miles away in Texas, I would have to have a special non-commercial class B license to drive anything over 26,000 pounds. So I could own a 40,000 pound diesel pusher motorhome and legally drive it anywhere in the US with my basic license. It all comes down to what a person can legally drive with a given license level in their home state.

Now there are towing and length restrictions that vary by state, and those you must comply with the state laws on. For example a 45 ft diesel pusher motorhome towing a 19 ft long car with a 3 ft long tow bar, would have an overall length of about 67 ft, which is over the 65 ft length limit for some states, but not over the 75 ft length limit of others. Multi trailer towing is another law that varies by state, ie towing a boat behind a 5th wheel trailer, being towed behind a pickup truck (this is legal in about half the states).

Multi tow is mostly a mid to west thing. Not much in East. Not at all in northeast

 

[darsben]

Isaac-1 has it right.​

 

[TonyL]

Sorry Jackie but the information you copied from the Caravan and Camping club site is now out of date. I can't remember if it was last month or earlier this, but the DVLA have upgraded the licence system so that many who passed their test since 1997 can now do 7500Kg gross train weight, not the previous 3500Kg. DVLA website had the details before we left the UK. The government misguidedly altered the law in the thought it would free up HGV training, even though the two classes are completely unrelated. It also meant that many people who recently underwent mandatory training in order to tow a larger trailer, have effectively wasted their money.

 

[TonyL]

Over 70 years of age (provided licence obtained before 1 January 1997): Only vehicles that can be safely towed by a 3,500kg towing vehicle.

That's also not technically accurate, a person may retain all previous catagory classes, provided they pass a medical and submit an application prior to their 70th birthday. The Caravan club for years insisted that those over 70 were automatically restricted to 3500Kg, again incorrect, and to which a lot of people needlessly changed their tow vehicle and caravan, or gave up completely.

 

[jackiemac]

That's also not technically accurate, a person may retain all previous catagory classes, provided they pass a medical and submit an application prior to their 70th birthday. The Caravan club for years insisted that those over 70 were automatically restricted to 3500Kg, again incorrect, and to which a lot of people needlessly changed their tow vehicle and caravan, or gave up completely.

Thanks Tony didn't realise that, they need to,update their,website! Presume you have standard licence and no issues?

@TimG Tony has a 5th wheel.

 

[jackiemac]

We have other UK friends with a big RV towing a car. He's an ex policeman so i will ask them if they obtained a different licence. He might have a different licence though.

What are you planning on travelling with?

 

[TonyL]

Apart from a couple of old speeding tickets, yes, my licence is standard with no issues (it's so old it should be written on parchment paper). Actually, the ruling allows a gross train weight of 8250Kg of which the primary vehicle must not weigh more than 7500Kg gross vehicle weight, allowing a trailer not exceeding 750Kg.

 

[TonyL]

Tim should also be advised that if he has an old paper licence (unlikely), some post office staff insist they are now illegal. That is not correct. (The Same ex police officer Jackie knows, confirmed it to me)

 

[jackiemac]

Sorry Jackie but the information you copied from the Caravan and Camping club site is now out of date. I can't remember if it was last month or earlier this, but the DVLA have upgraded the licence system so that many who passed their test since 1997 can now do 7500Kg gross train weight, not the previous 3500Kg. DVLA website had the details before we left the UK. The government misguidedly altered the law in the thought it would free up HGV training, even though the two classes are completely unrelated. It also meant that many people who recently underwent mandatory training in order to tow a larger trailer, have effectively wasted their money.

Not what the website says, ... it says 3500kg....

New rules for towing a trailer with a car from 16 December 2021

The rules about towing a trailer or caravan with a car changed on 16 December 2021. Find out how the changes affect you.

www.gov.uk

 

[TimG]

The info I got regarding my uk licence was through .Gov website input your licence number and NI number and they tell you what you can drive.
Still this has zero bearing on the topic. I'd like to talk about licence laws USA.

1/ How are so many Brits able to tow over the 10,000lbs limit in those states that require special licences or endorsements?

Thats it.. Thats the question.. Not what licence do I have..
They are non transferable. If I where from Germany or Republic of Korea I could transfer my licence but I have a UK driving licence which cannot. USA does not care if I was to have a class 1 HGV licence (drive the heaviest UK road vehicles) as they are not transferable.
The treaty we have is that a UK drivers licence allows us to have the basic licence privileges of USA. In most states known as a class D licence. USA has a reciprocity agreement with Canada, Mexico, Lots of South American countries, Germany and South Korea but not the UK.
A reciprocity agreement allows them to use all the visiting countries driving licence class' in USA

I should like to tow a nice 5th wheel. but that means i'm severely limited especially in Nevada and less so in California.

@jackiemac you're towing illegally in Nevada and California how do you get away with it? i looked at your signature area under your posts and it tells me you have a 2017 Heartland Sundance 288rls. which has a GVWR of 10,500lbs 500lbs over.. See here

@TonyL you're towing legally in California because your not towing for compensation in a 5th wheel and illegally in Nevada because you don't have the endorsement J. How are you able to do this?
I looked at your signature area under your posts and it tells me you have 2018 open range 337RLS which has a GVWR of 12,720lbs 2720lbs over.. See Here