PJ Stough
Well-known member
TonyDtorch said:
I believe that is part of the problem as well.
Paul
Indiana passes law that high school students can keep guns **
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I believe that is part of the problem as well.
Paul
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Oscar Mike
Guest
TonyDtorch said:
When Vietnam Veterans returned from deployment they were met with hatred to the nth degree, so a lot of veterans withdrew into their own worlds. When I returned via San Francisco in December 1972 I was spat on by a well-meaning, misinformed coward, who got his a** whooped that day.
I have been diagnosed with Combat related PTSD within the last 18 months. I lived for more than 40 years with depression, anxiety, and other symptoms gratis my service in the military without knowing the why. After my diagnosis last year, I could connect the dots of my life. I now understand the why.
I loathe people who do not understand the disease but seem to have all of the answers. I can be transparent about my PTSD diagnosis today, but for forty years I couldn't admit to any one that I felt like crap (that I now know is/was severe depression brought on by the horrors of war).
My father was a WWII Combat Veteran and Japanese POW who lived his entire life after the war with undiagnosed PTSD, and I paid the price of that while I was growing up. It is sad beyond description that WWII vets were not allowed to process their PTSD, because like my father, they never spoke about it, and the general public thought badly of any veteran who experienced "shell shock" and admitted it. General Patton nearly lost his career because he had no understanding of human psychology, and disgraced a young soldier who was experiencing extreme PTSD.
Today the Veteran's Administration is doing a lot more to treat veterans that suffer PTSD of every theater of operation from WWII vets to current veterans (not so many WWII vets any more). During the last 18 months I have changed my outlook on life 180 degrees, simply because there are people who understand that constant exposure to stressful events has consequences in those that experience combat.
If you haven't been in combat, or at the very least been in a combat zone (like I was) then you should have enough respect for those who have to keep your mouth and opinions to yourself...IMO. PTSD is not a joking matter, nor is it an automatic indicator of future violence.
End of rant.
Photog
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Great rant. I was spat on and attacked by anti war protesters in Seattle when I got back. After I got done with them the police arrested them. I feel your pain.Oscar Mike said:
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Dan23
Guest
Yes. I was just thinking how everyone knows all the answers (on everything), but the same problems persist. The great tool, the Internet, turns out to be our loss. But there is no going back.
Molaker
Well-known member
No doubt there are those taking advantage of PTSD - patients and care providers. It is difficult to diagnose, but that doesn't mean it isn't a bone fide ailment. Not too many years ago autism was virtually unknown simply because "we" didn't understand it. Once autism was recognized, the medical world ran with it and nearly every kid that acted differently had autism, in the eyes of many doctors and in the media. I think PTSD may be going through a similar evolution.
PTSD is not always (actually, seldom) displayed as some aggressive action as the media seems to want to report nor is every act of aggression a result of PTSD. The actions someone with PTSD might take is as varied as the individuals themselves, the environment they were subjected to in war and the environment they are subjected to now.
I have a cousin that was diagnosed with shell shock after returning from Korea. He was the sole survivor of his platoon and suffered severe head injury requiring a steel plate in his head. Because of his injuries, no one questioned his condition - but, I recall jokes being made about his reaction when loud noises occurred. Shell shock was just not understood by anyone. Remember the reported slapping of a soldier by General Patton?
Today, I have a niece who after two tours in Iraq has been diagnosed with PTSD and has been placed on disability. I don't know if she has PTSD or not. She does not seem any different to me now than she did before serving, but last I looked, my "love me" wall did not have a medical diploma hanging on it.
PTSD is not always (actually, seldom) displayed as some aggressive action as the media seems to want to report nor is every act of aggression a result of PTSD. The actions someone with PTSD might take is as varied as the individuals themselves, the environment they were subjected to in war and the environment they are subjected to now.
I have a cousin that was diagnosed with shell shock after returning from Korea. He was the sole survivor of his platoon and suffered severe head injury requiring a steel plate in his head. Because of his injuries, no one questioned his condition - but, I recall jokes being made about his reaction when loud noises occurred. Shell shock was just not understood by anyone. Remember the reported slapping of a soldier by General Patton?
Today, I have a niece who after two tours in Iraq has been diagnosed with PTSD and has been placed on disability. I don't know if she has PTSD or not. She does not seem any different to me now than she did before serving, but last I looked, my "love me" wall did not have a medical diploma hanging on it.
Paul & Ann said:
I was an Air Force SP for 8 years and carried on a daily basis. Our personal weapons were kept in the armory and we had to check them in and out just like our issued weapons. I personally would not have an issue with allowing those with a carry permit to carry on base. As a civilian I have a carry permit.
therealsimpsons
Well-known member
PancakeBill said:
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TonyDtorch
Guest
So I'm a curious John, are you able talk about the traumatic experience you went through aboard the Kitty Hawk ?
maybe I have PTSD because I get pissed off when I hear every vet that ever served is applying for disability now days. I have a friend that only fired a rifle in basic and served in Germany during Vietnam and he gets $1300 per month now from the VA for the rest of his life. he told me to get down to the VA and file because everyone is doing it.
hell, I been depressed and pissed off most of my life too, and all this time I thought it was just "life as a broke-ass-working-stiff Vet disorder", or LBAWSVD.
I was in intelligence, we interviewed the recon guys after they extracted intel from captured VC and then cut their throats because they couldn't take POWs.
I don't feel that entitles me to PTSD disability, but I can understand how it would for the recon guys ?
maybe I have PTSD because I get pissed off when I hear every vet that ever served is applying for disability now days. I have a friend that only fired a rifle in basic and served in Germany during Vietnam and he gets $1300 per month now from the VA for the rest of his life. he told me to get down to the VA and file because everyone is doing it.
hell, I been depressed and pissed off most of my life too, and all this time I thought it was just "life as a broke-ass-working-stiff Vet disorder", or LBAWSVD.
I was in intelligence, we interviewed the recon guys after they extracted intel from captured VC and then cut their throats because they couldn't take POWs.
I don't feel that entitles me to PTSD disability, but I can understand how it would for the recon guys ?
Charlie 5320
Well-known member
One day about 20 years ago my then 7 year old son came home from school, and told his mother and I his teacher said we couldn't spank him anymore cause it was illegal now. I asked him what he was to do if I spanked him? He said he would tell the teacher, and I would have to go to jail. So I asked him if he was going to go live with the teacher, and told him to go asked her. He came home the next day after he asked the teacher and told me that he would still live with me and mom, I said not if we were in jail. Was never brought up again. My son never got very many spankings growing up, and turned out to be a great person, but he knew if he did wrong he was going to get a spanking.
I am amazed how this country has changed in the last 25 years, can't imagine how it will be in another 25. Prisons full of people with life sentences, that the hard working people of this country are paying for. America is going to have to turn the corner one of these days.
I am amazed how this country has changed in the last 25 years, can't imagine how it will be in another 25. Prisons full of people with life sentences, that the hard working people of this country are paying for. America is going to have to turn the corner one of these days.
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Oscar Mike
Guest
TonyDtorch said:
I don't collect disability, for whatever reason PTSD caused me to be a workaholic, so I spent my life working a successful career in construction. As far as talking about my time in Vietnam or aboard the Kitty Hawk...I prefer to let the past be the past.
You might go to the VA and get tested for PTSD. I never thought that I would be diagnosed with PTSD, and in fact I argued the point for quite a while but even I could not deny the obvious.
catblaster
Well-known member
The first six weeks at my permanent duty station we spent sleeping with our weapons loaded on what was rumored at the time DEFCON 3. No one got shot that didn't deserve it and of course none of them were wearing our uniform. High stress and no sleep but still no claims of PTSD.
Six months later 3 of our brothers from our platoon were carried to MED batallion for mental disorders and still no one was shot. One was discharged and the other two were treated and even re-upped....and the Capt said I was the crazy one. HUH. No PTSD here but if they were willing to give away enough to buy a new RV I can understand how free money would be tempting to some.......we just didn't talk about it then.
Six months later 3 of our brothers from our platoon were carried to MED batallion for mental disorders and still no one was shot. One was discharged and the other two were treated and even re-upped....and the Capt said I was the crazy one. HUH. No PTSD here but if they were willing to give away enough to buy a new RV I can understand how free money would be tempting to some.......we just didn't talk about it then.
Molaker
Well-known member
Interestingly, PTSD is seldom mentioned in other than military related experiences. I'm sure it can and does occur in most any situation where something really bad has happened...Sandy Hook school shooting, for example, or even disastrous storms. I'm almost positive survivors of tragedies such as these can be haunted by it for years and who knows how it might affect their actions in the future. Yet, it seems that the term Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome has been reserved for the military. Why is that?
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Oscar Mike
Guest
Molaker said:
You're 180 out in your assessment. PTSD is just mentioned 1,000x more often in the press as it relates to the military, small minded folks buy into the media's nonsense.
People from all walks of life endure undiagnosed PTSD, because the medical community is so far behind the science of PTSD. AND because of the stigma attached to the disorder. Small minded folks make nonsensical judgements when it comes to mental illness. Fear drives this response, and the unknown drives fear in a lot of people. I know from my personal experience that I walked around for better than 40 years with undiagnosed PTSD. Since I was diagnosed I have been able to go through 1 1/2 years of PTSD treatment with great success. I feel sorry for folks who dismiss the idea of Post TRAUMATIC Stress Disorder out of hand.
Until our society accepts that mental illness is not witchcraft, we will continue to have meaningless discussions with folks who have no potential for understanding. I am happy as as I can be that I was finally diagnosed and that the treatment is working for me...to hell with the rest.
gc1966
Well-known member
If somebody wants to kill you, I mean really wants to kill you and does not care what happens to him, You are dead... It can be by a gun, a knife, a gallon of gas or the bumper of a car when you get out of your car to go in Wally World....
IT'S NOT THE GUN OR THE OBJECTS USED TO KILL, IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO KILL
IT'S NOT THE GUN OR THE OBJECTS USED TO KILL, IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO KILL
Molaker
Well-known member
Actually, I think you missed my point. I said PTSD seems to be reserved for the military. I did not say it was specifically reserved for the military. Your point is precisely what I intended to say - poorly, obviously.Oscar Mike said:
PJ Stough
Well-known member
gc1966 said:
There are lots of ways to kill people, but you have to admit using a gun is probably the most efficient.
Paul
gc1966
Well-known member
I dunno, running someone down in a parking lot would be easier because you don't have to look in your rear view mirror unless you just wanted toPaul & Ann said:
You come up with some real winners.Paul & Ann said:
Like that one. So basically your argument is if you can't defend yourself against something indefensible you shouldn't bother to defend yourself against anything. Do you lock your doors when you leave your home? Do you lock your RV? Do you wear seatbelts? What have you done to prevent being struck by meteors?
The definition of the word SHALL is CAN or WILL. So SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED would read CAN NOT BE INFRINGED and/or WILL NOT BE INFRINGED. The debate was over long ago. It is the law.
Support the NRA. They are currently the only entity fighting to UPHOLD the law.
Our rights are given to us by our CREATOR. Any individual who would attempt to deny another individual their rights must not really believe in a creator, or thinks they are above the creator, or else they just want to control you. The only way they can control you is to deny you the right to defend yourself against them.
They won't put the muzzle to your temple themselves, but they will use their trained dogs to do it for them. Anyone who has read Animal Farm will understand the reference. If you haven't read it do so.
Tom
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Folks, please don't turn ths discussion into a personal issue; Keep it civil and stick to the subject. Thanks.
PJ Stough
Well-known member
Getinaway said:
My point is where does being prepared cross over into paranoia. It is one thing to have the right to own a weapon, but it is quite another thing to believe you need to have one at the ready at all times.
I dont know where you got the idea I was opposed to gun ownership, but I do believe that we need to clarify the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
Paul
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