Invisibrake Toad Charging

[billnapoleon]

Last Week I had my new 2015 Jeep Wrangler outfitted with an Invisibrake supplemental braking system. I left the installer early in the morning before dawn in the rain. All was fine at first. We hit stop and go traffic for an hour. We were running the motorhome lights, wipers, defroster, heated rearview mirrors and radio. We were also supplying the Jeep with power to the tail lights, directionals etc. I was told an long as the motorhome tail lights were on the Invisibrake would receive a charge from the motor home. An hour into our trip I noticed the indicator light showing the Invisibrake was braking no longer lit.When I had the chance I pulled over to see if the unit was indeed braking. I found the units compressor could barely pull the brake pedal down. I started the Jeep. The unit seemed to be responding correctly. I assumed there was a wiring problem from the motorhome to the charging connection on the Invisibrake.When we got back to our Camp Hosting location I called the installer and made an appointment to return there when we finish our job commitment.
Thinking about this later, I now am not sure if there is a problem or was I just overtaxing the motorhome's alternator with all the accessories running and at low engine RPMs sitting in traffic.
Being parked now and unable to hook the Jeep back up to test anything I just wonder if anyone else has seen this or can make any suggestions.

 

[John From Detroit]

Over taxing is possible but so is "A problem"  The MOST LIKELY problem is a poor ground, likely at the motor home end of the cable, I had that on my rig and when we plugged in the towed (different brake system but just the lights were enough) bad things happened.. The old towed did not have this problem as there was a multi-path ground (not always a good thing but in this case the alternate was good) with this towed the light system is different and the towed lights are grounded independent and ONLY to the motor home, not to the towed.

If the ground connection is not good enough, and for whatever reason (Paint for example) it can not ground via the tow bar (The other path in my case) battery charging will not happen.

In my case, the turn signals did not work properly with the tail lights on (Classic bad ground issue).

I upgraded the ground on the motor home end of the umbilical and.... all was good.

 

[Alfa38User]

The charging in this system is based on 'stealing' 12V and ground from the  tail light system on the towed. This is why the lights have to be on when in use.

Check the connection spot chosen by the installer for 12V at that point. It could be as simple as a blown fuse feeding the Intellibrake. (I do not have a wiring diagram available to me right now!!). A good ground from the motor home is also essential and a poor one will cause all kinds of strange problems, not only with the Intelibrake.

 

[Arch Hoagland]

Keep us updated on the problem's solution. 

 

[billnapoleon]

I will have the wiring checked but I think I may add a separate AGM Deep Cycle battery dedicated to the Invisibrake wired to the charging system so I don't have to worry about the toad power if this problem persists on the open road.Any other comments or suggestions are still welcome though. 

 

[RogerE]

I wound up ruining the battery in our towed vehicle on our first long trip after having the Invisibrake system installed at Camping World.  We were doing all daylight driving, and I was following the written instructions for the Invisibrake which state that it charges the towed vehicle battery when the PARKING lights on the coach are turned on. 

In a subsequent discussion with a technician at Roadmaster, I was told that the parking light circuit did not deliver enough of a charge and that I should have been driving using the HEADLIGHTS on the coach at all times while towing.  When I asked him why their written instructions clearly said to use the parking lights, he could not give me any answer. 

In addition to using the headlights at all times now, I also start the towed every time we make a rest stop.  Since I started doing both of these things, the (new) battery in the towed has been fine and the brake system has performed with no problems.

 

[Molaker]

I wound up ruining the battery in our towed vehicle on our first long trip after having the Invisibrake system installed at Camping World.  We were doing all daylight driving, and I was following the written instructions for the Invisibrake which state that it charges the towed vehicle battery when the PARKING lights on the coach are turned on. 

In a subsequent discussion with a technician at Roadmaster, I was told that the parking light circuit did not deliver enough of a charge and that I should have been driving using the HEADLIGHTS on the coach at all times while towing.  When I asked him why their written instructions clearly said to use the parking lights, he could not give me any answer. 

In addition to using the headlights at all times now, I also start the towed every time we make a rest stop.  Since I started doing both of these things, the (new) battery in the towed has been fine and the brake system has performed with no problems.

I can't fathom how using the headlights is any different than using the parking lights if the power is coming from the parking light circuit either way.  But, if it's working for you, great!  I suspect, however, it is the starting of the towed at rest stops that is doing it.

 

[John From Detroit]

In a subsequent discussion with a technician at Roadmaster, I was told that the parking light circuit did not deliver enough of a charge and that I should have been driving using the HEADLIGHTS on the coach at all times while towing.  When I asked him why their written instructions clearly said to use the parking lights, he could not give me any answer. 

Let me put it this way.. The technician at Roadmaster.....LIED

The power delivered by the parking light circuit is identical to the power deliverd when you turn on the headlights provided the Motor Home's circuits are working properly.. (IF the motor home has problems then turning on the headlights will REDUCE power to the tail light circuit)

In fact.. from the tail lights point of view the power delivered is the same,, Same circuit in fact, SAME SWITCH CONTACT in fact. NO difference at all.. (If the motor home has problems the headlights may pull the voltage down a bit is all)

So the technician lied, or if not exactly a lie, was misinformed.

The biggest issue is too much too small wire and poor grounds.

 

[Ernie n Tara]

Pardon my ignorance, but just how much power does the invisabrake use. I use a brake with compressor on my Jeep with no provision for charging the Jeep battery and its never been a problem! I've even forgotten to start the Jeep at a stop and run for two days (about 14 hrs) a couple of times.

Ernie

 

[billnapoleon]

We have an appointment at CW Monday morning after I had a serious talk with the service manager and service writer. I to am concerned about wire size and grounds. I will be camping in their parking lot until I am satisfied the problem has been at least diagnosed.

Answering the last comment. I too had no problems with my other toad and Brake Buddy. The difference is the brake buddy works on a pendulum system and only applys the toad brakes when the pendulum swings from the motor gome brakeing. The new "advanced technology" Invisibrake brakes when the motorhome brake lights go on, thus the compressor runs more frequently using power from the toad.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Taking charging current from the parking lights is a cheap dodge to avoid running a dedicated charging wire back to the toad - which is what I would view as the proper way to install any unit that draws power from the toad's battery.  Any pickup truck or other vehicle towing an RV trailer have had this charging wire installed for decades as part of the standard hitch installation - the issue with installing it on a motorhome is the additional difficulty of getting it from the motorhome's chassis battery to the hitch connector.

If you have a 6 pin plug (5 perimeter pins plus a center pin) there are even dedicated pin assignments for + 12 volts and ground.

 

[John From Detroit]

Lou.... I agree... On my towed I went with the US-Gear system, alas the ground issue is still a problem, though there is a dedicated charge line, battery to battery with circuit breakers both ends.. That worked well.

On my new towed I am using a different system, but I still have that charge line, spliced into it with power poles and built my own charge line,  I think I connected both charge and ground.  But I still had to upgrade the ground on the light connector. (It is independent of the car).

I also put a 2nd power pole connection on the FRONT of the MH so if I'm parked without moving the car for a week, I can plug it into the house on either end.