Keystone or Forest River

[Lesliel]

Hi,
My husband and I are trying to decide between a 2020 Keystone Outback 210URS and a 2020 Forest River Evo 2160. It will be just my husband, myself and our 90lb lab as our youngest will be heading off to college in the fall. We owned a 25 ft. TT years ago but had a pop-up with slide out for the last 11 years. The Outback is definitely more similar to the pop-up, but we are worried about mechanical problems with the king slide out in the back and wondering about general quality of construction. It does feel a little cramped as well, especially the bathroom.
Things we like about the Outback:
Size, (easier to maneuver)
The king bed
Bunk space for storage
Aluminum frame and fiberglass siding

Things we like about the Evo:
Layout (feels spacious)
Clearance
Bathroom (shower doors vs curtain)
and doesn?t feel cramped
Quality inside seems a little better than Outback

Does anyone have experience with one or the other? We really like both so are having a hard time trying to decide. Both have positives and negatives. For reference, we will probably not be doing a ton of full hook-up camping. Just want to make an educated decision and not buy a TT that has a ton of problems. Any information would be much appreciated.

Thank you!!
Leslie

 

[grashley]

Welcome to the Forum!

Both are entry level campers and both are likely to have a few issues from the factory.

I suggest looking at a gently used 2017 - 2019 model, same floor plan and let the first owner work out the bugs and get warranty stuff fixed.  Then you get to take it camping, not back to the dealer for an extended stay.  There are many late model "OOPS" campers available.  Oops, we do not like camping.  Oops, we do not use it nearly as much as we thought we would.  Oops, we want something bigger.  Oops, wrong floor plan for our family.  Oops, our subcompact car is too small to tow it.  Their Oops is your chance to get a great deal.

 

[Conesus1]

Welcome to the Forum!

Both are entry level campers and both are likely to have a few issues from the factory.

I suggest looking at a gently used 2017 - 2019 model, same floor plan and let the first owner work out the bugs and get warranty stuff fixed.  Then you get to take it camping, not back to the dealer for an extended stay.  There are many late model "OOPS" campers available.  Oops, we do not like camping.  Oops, we do not use it nearly as much as we thought we would.  Oops, we want something bigger.  Oops, wrong floor plan for our family.  Oops, our subcompact car is too small to tow it.  Their Oops is your chance to get a great deal.

What is the entry level nonsense?
And because of likely to have issues?
Just like autos, there are different levels.
Lets talk Silverados.
You have a base truck, work truck, LT, LT1,2 and LTZ.
Still the same truck , just what comes on it is different, the FRILLS.
If I have no need for something, I don't buy it, not cost effective for me. Well some look down and see something THEIR lacking and get the fully diesel, everything package to make up for that lack.
Guess what, more frills, more things to go wrong. Same people build both, quality is the same.

Same applies to the RV industry.

Since the RV industry as a whole really doesnt care to much about quality and rectifying well known issues, any RV, Brand and Level is a crap shoot

 

[steveblonde]

mcdonalds or burger king - whichever you like best

 

[steveblonde]

What is the entry level nonsense?
And because of likely to have issues?
Just like autos, there are different levels.
Lets talk Silverados.
You have a base truck, work truck, LT, LT1,2 and LTZ.
Still the same truck , just what comes on it is different, the FRILLS.
If I have no need for something, I don't buy it, not cost effective for me. Well some look down and see something THEIR lacking and get the fully diesel, everything package to make up for that lack.
Guess what, more frills, more things to go wrong. Same people build both, quality is the same.

Same applies to the RV industry.

Since the RV industry as a whole really doesnt care to much about quality and rectifying well known issues, any RV, Brand and Level is a crap shoot

only part true the higher the brand more care is taken - on a $15000 unit the idea is get outas many as possible on a $100000 unit more attention is paid
just like your Silverado compared to a Rolls royce or better still an Audi compared to a Lambo same company different level of attention paid

 

[Conesus1]

only part true the higher the brand more care is taken - on a $15000 unit the idea is get outas many as possible on a $100000 unit more attention is paid
just like your Silverado compared to a Rolls royce or better still an Audi compared to a Lambo same company different level of attention paid

From the tours I did anything Berkshire Hathaway and Thor Industries makes, same attention paid.
Slam Bam get outta here man.
Now the way I read your post, yes, Grand Design DRV Suites and a few others take their time build a quality products.

 

[grashley]

Conesus1

What is the problem?  As I said, expect some quality issues with any new, especially entry level camper.  I am not attacking entry level campers, I am calling a spade a spade.  More  expensive campers will have SOME better quality components, and MIGHT have better build quality.  I did not advocate buying a more expensive or fancier camper,  I suggested buying the same camper USED to let someone else fix the problems.

Some folks like more upscale things, including me, but I DO NOT look down my nose at folks who choose to get a lower trim level or who are smart enough to get what they can afford, and maybe not what they want.

 

[Lesliel]

Thank you for your suggestion on buying used! Totally understand the logic behind your post and agree with
your thoughts on an entry level TT. My husband and I want to make sure that we are going to actually use
the TT before investing in possibly a more quality, higher end RV. Plus we have 2 kids that will be attending
out of state college! :-\  Was hoping that someone could give some insight on either the Forest River Evo or
the Keystone Outback. We are also looking at the Gulf Stream Envision as well. Thanks advance! 

 

[Conesus1]

Conesus1

What is the problem?  As I said, expect some quality issues with any new, especially entry level camper.  I am not attacking entry level campers, I am calling a spade a spade.  More  expensive campers will have SOME better quality components, and MIGHT have better build quality.  I did not advocate buying a more expensive or fancier camper,  I suggested buying the same camper USED to let someone else fix the problems.

Some folks like more upscale things, including me, but I DO NOT look down my nose at folks who choose to get a lower trim level or who are smart enough to get what they can afford, and maybe not what they want.

Wow! You did it again!
"As I said, expect some quality issues with any new, especially entry level camper."
First post didn't mention "ANY" just entry level and now this. "ESPECIALLY."
No where did it say "SOME" "MIGHT".
And used is more a crap shoot then new.
Judging by these forums, ALL RV forums there is a trend of DIY to fix issue that arise.
That openly says,I cant be bothered running this back to the dealer, dealers suck, been there allready and he wont work with me etc.
Unless you know what to look for?
We bought used,but having a few years of experience in building houses, I knew how to look for problems.
I would agree buying used for the reasons you stated, but be very careful.

Berkshire Hathaway and Thor Industries, well, quality is not job #1, profit is #1, quality is still down the line some from everything I see from entry level to high end. If I was looking higher or high end, for the prices they get, wouldn't be these 2.

 

[Conesus1]

Lesliel,
Point here I'll make is the decision is up to you.
Neither brand is any better than the other. They use the same suppliers for there stuff.
If people have a problem with one brand or another and nobody goes against it etc, well!
Some have brand loyalty for some reason, why, could be protect their purchase even though they had problems.

If buying used, be vigilant, open every compartment, drawer, storage area etc looking for water damage, repairs etc.
Get up on the roof, look for patching etc.
Tires have a build date, are they over 5 years old, wearing funny etc.
Does everything work.
People just buy on a simple walk through, don't be that person.

 

[Joezeppy]

Lesliel, our Hideout is truly Keystone's "entry level" brand - cheap baggage doors, thin cabinet material, etc. I'd consider the Outback upscale compared to ours, LOL. With that said, we have not had any quality issues. We had it back to the dealer once for some minor repairs but it was really all cosmetic stuff. This is our first Keystone product and we've had a good experience so I would consider them again when it comes time to upgrade. Friends of our also bought a Hideout the year after we did - different floor plan - from the same dealer and have also had good luck.

 

[UTTransplant]

If you are just seeing what is right for you, definitely look for a used trailer. The depreciation on a new one will kill you if you sell in a few years. BTW, if you do end up with a new trailer, make sure you get a good deal. You should be able to get 30-35% off MSRP. If not, go to another dealer. The discount should not be off an inflated price with all kinds of add one either. You can find MSRP by looking online at dealers.

 

[grashley]

Wow! You did it again!
"As I said, expect some quality issues with any new, especially entry level camper."
First post didn't mention "ANY" just entry level and now this. "ESPECIALLY."
No where did it say "SOME" "MIGHT".
And used is more a crap shoot then new.
Judging by these forums, ALL RV forums there is a trend of DIY to fix issue that arise.
That openly says,I cant be bothered running this back to the dealer, dealers suck, been there allready and he wont work with me etc.
Unless you know what to look for?
We bought used,but having a few years of experience in building houses, I knew how to look for problems.
I would agree buying used for the reasons you stated, but be very careful.

Berkshire Hathaway and Thor Industries, well, quality is not job #1, profit is #1, quality is still down the line some from everything I see from entry level to high end. If I was looking higher or high end, for the prices they get, wouldn't be these 2.

The two models specifically mentioned, Outback and Evo, are both entry level campers.  The rest deserves no further comment.  I will allow my reputation to stand for itself.

 

[scottydl]

I know you said each model you've looked at has positives and negatives... now you have to decide how to rank those features for your own planned uses. For me it's floorplan, floorplan, floorplan... I could care less about the year/make/model. I'm going to be "living" in this rig (even if only for a few days at a time) and I want to enjoy how it feels on the inside.

Of course price is another major consideration, and condition if you are buying used--which I also recommend (and have done with both RV's I have owned) for the same reasons Gordon mentioned. A new RV doesn't really buy you much peace of mind... typically a 1-year warranty, with often-substandard service from many dealers if/when you need something fixed. And for that, you typically will pay thousands of dollars in lost value that first year, since RV's depreciate faster than almost anything on earth.

 

[Hanr3]

I'm not familiar with the Evo, but I do like the Grand design layouts. Take a look at the KZ Sportsmen or Durango series. Especially look at the features included in each unit.
Most campers use the same components, frame, windows, furnace, fridge, A/C, microwave, stove, steps, ladder, etc. the difference can be hidden things. Like tank capacities, insulated and sealed under belly for colder climates or a longer camping season. Camper is cable tv ready, satellite ready, solar ready, over-the-air antenna and booster. USB ports for charging electronics, like laptops, phones, etc. Light over the outside steps. Awning controls outside on the awning, including lights. Real nice to pull into camp at night and turn on the awning light so you can see to put the key in the door lock.
basically mentally walk through the camper and decide on where and how you will use it. Where will you store your pots and pans, keys and wallet, phones while in the living room and bedroom, got room for a coffee pot? Etc. Where are your coats going to hang if its raining out, wet boots got a place on the floor? Where is the lab going to sleep and where are you going to put the water dish?
You are buying a floor plan. You can't change it. The tv, microwave, stove, etc can be replaced. You won't upgrade to larger fresh water tank, or bigger gray or black water tanks. You can replace the mattress, but not the location of the bed.

Things break. The factory does quality checks, however everyone makes mistakes and sometimes an non functioning item gets out the door. it happens, even on high dollar units. Dealers are there to fix, replace any factory defects or components that fail early.

Last thing, what is the warranty period on those campers? Most is 1 year, KZ is two years.

 

[hoddinron]

I've owned two new Forest River products - Flagstaff, and Sabre - and recently purchased a 2020 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel.
In both Forest River 5th wheels I had issues that requires returning them to the dealership for "adjustments."
I'm amazed that so far I haven't found a damn thing wrong with the Keystone Cougar, so I'd say it was somewhat better built than the Forest River models.

 

[lunchbox0311]

I had a 28? hideout for a few years that I stayed in a lot. I work on the road. I just upgraded to a 23? Cougar 5th wheel and have already had to take it back for issues. One thing I would say is to look at how much storage you have for dishes or food or whatever you think you want.  My hideout had plenty of room for me but no storage hardly at all. The cougar is smaller yes but feels like it has more room and definitely has way more storage for food, dishes and whatever. I?d say if you think it?s cramped now you will be once you start staying in it.
Good luck

 

[redcaddy51]

I recently purchased a well cared for Keystone Cougar 27 EFS (it's an '06) the most important things to me were, layout, condition and price. I bought it from a local dealer, so I paid a little bit more than a private sale. The floorplan is very similar to the Forrest river 24 foot 5er we had before. The Keystone all aluminum, welded, (no cracks or squeeks) frame appealed to the engineer in me, the trim level and quality appealed to SWMBO. Both of us like the layout. It's also almost 1200 Lbs lighter then the Forrest river. I'm towing with a MDT, so the weight is not as important as if I was dragging it with an F-150 but I'm getting much better mileage.

As others have said, I have bought a couple of new units, different manufacturers, and had the normal start up problems, dealer hassels etc. I won't buy new again, they just never seemed to be what I expected or was looking for. (OOPS!) That and I can no longer afford to take the retail hit, fixed income.

When I was younger, (I'm 70 now) I enjoyed fixing and modifying to fit, the things I bought. Now, I tend to rent a HS kid and teach them how to do what I want/need.

Think, and flip a coin...

AS far as helping you choose, I will only ask, got a "fitz all" standard?. good luck.

RED